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Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

By John Clarke

Drugs Discussion

This is now the third open thread on synthetic cannabinoids, following on from the JWH-018 Toxicology article and the first Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion thread.

Not that there are any points, but bonus points for backing up what you say with peer reviewed research. Please keep the discussion scientific. You can talk about dodgy vendors if you must, especially if there’s a bad batch going round, but please don’t link to them or turn this into a customer support thread. If you want to talk about individual smoking mixtures, please do so Here.

Ok, go:.

282 Responses to Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

  1. Juugo417 says:

    I have a question for anyone that can answer I recently quit smoking “The Green” for the service and started smoking this stuff called Dead Rider it claims to be 100% marshmellow leaf. And now they have tests for the JWH, AM, and RCS compounds, should I be concerned. The tests they developed for spice say:
    ■Accurately identifies JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-081, JWH-250, AM-2201, RCS-4 and their metabolites
    But on the package it says contains no chemicals and lists all the compounds above. I dont want to risk my job… I will quit if need be, but who doesnt like being stoned? 🙂

  2. Ratgirl13 says:

    I thought I had reached the pinnacle of stimulating my synapses and was wondering whether I needed to try another chemical when I realized a) I had a batch of poor quality product & b) one can smoke too much weed. (My late husband would be very proud of me for reaching that precipice — he always told me I was a lightweight smoker.) Medicinal blood levels have to be maintained carefully — too much is as bad as too little. I think I need a nap now…zzz

  3. Drew says:

    I would suggest leaning towards the safe side. If any job drug screening is testing for research chemicals, anything is possible. And I wouldn’t trust packaging. Ever.

    On another note- I’ve been experimenting with RCs for two years now due to a marijuana possession arrest. Up until now I have been ok. Semi-ok I guess… I was disponded at my lack of ability to obtain a high from “regular weed”. It had to be, as all my friends would call it, “that fake shit”. Recently I’ve almost put myself in rehabilitation for being chemically/emotionally dependent on AM-2201. But here’s the catch- I’ve had two batches of this stuff from another vendor that stopped selling it. Never had a problem with that stuff, it would just just stop getting me stoned. But this batch is giving me withdrawal symptoms and manic anxiety.

    I’ve decided to self-detox with the help of Xanax. My conclusion- different vendors= definite difference in potency. DISCLAIMER: Those who already have mental/emotional disorders or addictive personalities should be EXTREMELY caucious in your research.

  4. Garret says:

    Hello
    This question is for the guy who went on Nervesheild and French clay; have your eye floaters gone away? are they caused by anxiety; Mine are still very proninent.
    Thanks.

    Garret

  5. Dave says:

    There is an update on this from the Air Force Times.

    2. As of 1 March 2011: The Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) is issuing this final order to temporarily place five synthetic cannabinoids into the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) pursuant to the temporary scheduling provisions. The substances are 1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-018), 1-butyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-073), 1-[2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl]-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-200), 5-(1,1-dimethylheptyl)-2-[(1 R, 3 S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (CP-47,497), and 5-(1,1-dimethyloctyl)-2-[(1 R, 3 S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (cannabicyclohexanol; CP-47,497 C8 homologue). This action is based on a finding by the Administrator that the placement of these synthetic cannabinoids into Schedule I of the CSA is necessary to avoid an imminent hazard to the public safety. As a result of this order, the full effect of the CSA and its implementing regulations including criminal, civil and administrative penalties, sanctions and regulatory controls of Schedule I substances will be imposed on the manufacture, distribution, possession, importation, and exportation of these synthetic cannabinoids.

  6. BLiZz says:

    like freedom said on t he back or the back blurry n repeats it.. i use to gt good blends by lookin at the back real quick use to… i said… now there is very few.. yall suck wit ya damania leaf heart attack episodes

  7. BLiZz says:

    what morphinol in jwh 200? let me guess it has anastetic properties too… thats why there should be no ban on any jwh chemicles purely the truth in strength told bottom fucking line if u wanna buy researchin shit its like buying diet pills not fda approved all amphetamined up but on shit amps tbh all this hype is over publicsized well atleast we know how much weed it takes to overdose now note that finding.. fuck man if you wanna put laws out on shit like that you should be putting laws on chemistry and being allowed to learn it and also not having doctors learn it either.

  8. BLiZz says:

    Chemicles are pretty fucking boring… why do you think all of a sudden there are so many to alter your preception doped up chemists make these test them thereselves some live on them daily u gonna tell me there aint no one out there on mdma everyday right now andi m gonna tell you thats bullshit.

  9. Peter says:

    Hi Dave,
    How have you been? I am still recovering here. It is slightly over 1 year. For the most part I am ok but anytime I have any sort of difficulty breathing such as warm air of exercising, I start to panic. Still working through my issues but things have improved at least. Thanks for your help when I was in no mans land, I didnt really have any hope. Now I am just hoping I continue to get better and beat this panic/anxiety that I caused myself. Thanks

  10. Garret says:

    Hi
    I know I have emailed you here a lot about eye floaters and anxiety; I am sorry, I am still very conscious of the floaters. I am a bit depressed cause I am worried that the floater disturbance will never go. It’s a vicious circle(anxiety/eye floaters). I can’t help seeing them most of the time. It also feels as if my heart is skipping every few minutes; maybe from the anxiety. It feels as everything is double hard to do! More advice needed. It’s almost 2 years ago since I smoked anything. Just to hear from somebody who has went through the same experience and to know that their eye floaters did dissipate also; that would be a big relief.
    Thanks.

    Garret Fitzgerald

  11. George says:

    Garret, you need to have a good optometrist or opthalmologist check your eyes to see if it is something floating in the fluid or if it is damage to your eye. The floaters I have now are damage to the retina most likely from farm animals or pets. Damage to the retina can be very easy to get and can come from bacteria from common animals.

    Anxiety has a huge mental component, so it can for the most part be addressed mentally, but the irregular heartbeat for me has remained, not as bad but still something to work on.

    Good luck to you. If you figure it out, post it. 🙂

  12. Garret says:

    Hi george
    How Long have you the irregualr heartbeat?
    I reckon, because of the anxiety I have been pumping Adrenaline in to my system(might have caused the eye floaters) which can make you fell pretty bad. George, do you know of anyone who has recovered 100%? I am a little worried that this may never pass. If I heard from someone that recovered from this and that everything cleared up I would be over the moon.
    Thanks.

    Garret

  13. Garret says:

    Hi George
    I think it all boils down to anxiety, hypochondria.

  14. Ratgirl13 says:

    Took you guys long enough. Amazing what twinges the human body can experience without anything being wrong. People get a rash from using a new laundry detergent and rush to the emergency room thinking they’ve got measles.

  15. bdubz says:

    I planned on making my own blend soon and I was wondering if isopropyl alcohol 99% can be used?

  16. Garret says:

    Hi Ratgirl
    I know what you mean. This stuff is dangerous. Period.

  17. bdubz says:

    @Garret: Oh, please. I’ve been smoking the stuff for a few years without any ill effects. I guarantee your problems are caused by something else. Quit being a hypochondriac and don’t do drugs if you have anxiety and aren’t a happy, healthy person. You’d be amazed what the mind can convince itself. Also use moderation and don’t be greedy.

    Now, about my question about the use of isopropyl alcohol as a solvent…

    Isopropyl alcohol works very well as a solvent. Works much better than acetone and everclear, is less expensive and is much easier to find. I got a 4-pack of 99% medical grade isopropyl alcohol from costco for $8.

    My blend was 2 grams of JWH-210 to 50 grams of herb. 25 grams marshmallow leaf, 12.5 grams mullein leaf and 12.5 grams lemon balm leaf. I am impressed with the marshmallow leaf and very impressed with the mullein (stuff is nice and fluffy like real cannabis) but next time I’ll probably use peppermint leaves instead of lemon balm leaves for a better flavor. The blend still tasted good but peppermint leaves would’ve made it taste even better.

    I put my 2 grams of JWH-210 into a small spray bottle that has a fine, even mist and mixed it with 100-150 ml of isopropyl alcohol. The JWH-210 will not dissolve in the solvent at room temperature so I heated up the isopropyl/JWH mixture in the spray bottle by placing the spray bottle in a container of hot water for 5 minutes, shook it for 30 seconds and then repeated a couple more times until everything was dissolved.

    I then evenly put my 50 grams of herbs into a 8×12 pyrex dish and sprayed them with the JWH/iso mix. I sprayed the herbs evenly twice, shuffled everything up well and repeated until there was no JWH/iso mix left. Took me about 45 minutes to do but you can do it faster if you spray more and mix less. It may take longer to dry and may contain hot spots if you speed the process up though. The slower, the better. A spatula works well for mixing the herbs.

    After drying for 8 hours, the end result was fantastic. No hot spots, good flavor and good potency (not too strong and not too weak). I get a nice high from smoking 2-3 bowls and a noticeable buzz from one. My friends and customers seem to like it as well.

  18. Garret says:

    Hi
    I don’t use drugs anymore; as someone once said grown ups don’t use drugs. I did get awful anxiety attack and felt very anxious for about 1 year. Like Dave above. You are right the eye floaters were always there. The hypochondria/anxiety only heightened them. Be careful with the stuff, a lot of people did get a bad reaction.
    Thanks.

  19. Ratgirl13 says:

    Thanks, bdubz, for backing me — don’t think Garrett caught my sarcasm.

    I’m glad people are still getting good effects with these chemicals, even if I was never able to fine tune an oral dosage. If I have to smoke, since I’m not being tested and live in an area where there’s fabulous organic THC available, I’ve gone back to nature.

    Has anyone used their homemade mixtures in vaporizers?

  20. Garret says:

    wild life along with my wife
    I’m goin’ up on the mountain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    They got m’ mother ‘n father
    ‘n run down all my kin
    Folks I know I’m next
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    I’m goin’ up on the mountain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife? wife?
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    Wild life wild life wild life
    Wild life wild life wild life
    I’m goin’ up on the mountain along with m’ wife
    Find me uh cave ‘n talk them bears
    In t’ takin’ me in
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    Wild life
    It’s uh man’s best friend
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    I’m goin’ up on the mountain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife?
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    Wild life wild life
    Wild life wild life
    I’m goin’ up on the mountain
    Find me uh cave ‘n talk the bears
    In t’ takin’ me in
    Wild life is uh mans best friend
    Wild life
    Wild life

    Be careful of the man-made stuff.
    This is what nature(weed) can do to you if you are not a whole sane person in wrong environment:
    Green hocker croakin’
    In the Pygmy Twylyte

    Crankin’ an’ a-coke’n
    In the Winchell’s do-nut Midnite

    Out of his deep on a ‘fore day run
    Hurtin’ for sleep in the Quaalude Moonlight

    Green hocker in a Greyhound locker
    Smokin’ in the Pygmy Twylyte

    Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
    By the doo-doo room with the reek replete

    Crystal eye, crystal eye
    Got a crystal kidney & he’s fraid to die
    In the Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite

    Thanks for the advice.

    Garret

  21. Alice says:

    Has anyone tried ur-144?

    I want to thank Dave for the info for the service guy.

    Since the military is now testing for perscription abuse and synthetics, I just wish I knew which ones they were testing for.

  22. Tom says:

    @Peter and George

    I have suffered with heart palpitations, awareness of heart beat, chest pain, and fluttering for two years till this date. This happened after I smoked incense/jwh-018. I did not try french green clay yet. Peter and George, did you have any of these symptoms and are they still present? Input is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

  23. Tom says:

    @ Peter and George
    Hi, I smoked a herbal incense with jwh-018 or some other chemical in it two years ago, and from that date I have had heart palpitations, ability to hear my heart beat, heart fluttering sensations, ringings in ears, chest pain, pres¬sure below the left breast. My symptoms are present all day and only get better If I do not get enough sleep.

    Did you guys experience some of these symptoms before taking the french green clay?

    From what I read in your previous posts, I understand one should take the french green clay to get rid of the chemical, but Swanson does not have it anymore.
    Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time

  24. Ratgirl13 says:

    Tom, you have anxiety. Try cognitive behavior therapy and prune juice (works for Klingons).

  25. tulkas says:

    Tom:

    I’m at about nine months since I stopped vaping the pure synthetic powder (JWH-018, AM-2201, and JWH-210). I haven’t even smoked MJ in that time as I’ve been letting my lungs clear out the glue-like gunk that the synthetic becomes.

    It’s true you have anxiety, but it’s definitely not without good reason. Mine was terrible. But when you feel like you have a severe lung flu, or asthma attack that persists for months it is going to make that anxiety from detoxing spike pretty bad.

    I’m only now starting to feel somewhat better. I wouldn’t say 100% but a whole lot more than the day I stopped. I still cough up bits of the glue crap but a lot less and a lot less often. The anxiety has more or less passed and I should be able to consume MJ again at around the year mark I’d guess.

    I tried the clay for a couple weeks, and honestly it didn’t really do anything. I suspect a placebo effect from people who say it helps (or possibly just timed right with their recovery period).

    What you really need to do to feel better is get a prescription for a long half-life benzodiazepine from your doctor. I recommend diazepam (Valium): I’ve tried the top four and it’s the only one that didn’t make me want to sleep all day. That will help stop your mind from panicking and allow your body the time it needs to heal.

    If you can get a oxygen tank prescription, that helps too. Don’t smoke or vape anything for around a year after stopping. Get exercise when your breathing improves. Try to occupy your mind so it can’t dwell on feeling ill, a good MMO or FPS type game does just that.

    Try to hack the crap out of your lungs every day. Humidifiers help, but also can give you an infection if used too much, or if you don’t used distilled water in them. I used one at first then stopped after getting the infection. Probably better to pass on it.

    Drink a lot of water, Gatorade or Powerade, and in the early stages Ensure type drinks help tremendously.

    I didn’t think it would be alright, and felt the fear you feel, but if you take it easy on your body, calm your mind, and are prepared to be very patient, you’ll start feeling better eventually too.

    Lesson here is nature made chemicals are definitely better to use than some man made crap that has little to no information on side effects or long term effects. This is what the silly illegalization of MJ has driven us to: using some mad scientist lab crap that could very well be poison.

  26. Ratgirl13 says:

    @tulkas, thanks for your brilliant, caring answer. I lose patience with folks who say they try sometimes a few times and they are now beset with mental health symptoms that only a placebo can cure…

  27. Garret says:

    Hi
    My anxiety is almost gone. I would say that I have 2% more healing to go. I still have very prominent floaters. It felt like I suffering from hypochondria and anxiety all the time; now I am almost better. I still worry sometimes; mostly about what the fuck was the stuff I smoked in the first place and what the long term side effects could be. After my panic from the stuff, the following morning I awoke with hypochondria and anxiety. For some strange reason I felt that I had damaged my vision, why I don’t know! All my energy was directed to my vision field, and at the same time I was very anxious. Then the eye floaters popped up. I am sure I had them all the time. I notice them now; before I did not.
    I hope they go away. It’s like looking through dirty water all the time.
    Any good news anyone?

  28. RANDY VOEKS says:

    I’m looking for feedback and people’s experiences with AM1248?

  29. James says:

    UR-144:

    Use time: 6 weeks
    Amount consumed: ~8g/total, ~200mg/day

    Basics:
    Seems to stay fluid once melted unlike the napthalene based ones. This means it doesn’t solidify in your lungs like the those ones do. Larger amounts are required and more frequently than older RCs. The peak lasts 30 min then is a very dramatic drop off, not the coasting down to a plateau. Pleasant at first, then hyper-addicting. Anything beyond a week is pushing it.

    Ok, so here’s the deal with it. The side effects are pretty bad. It isn’t like the older generation RCs where you only really notice side effects from overdosing or when you quit.

    They are actually quite strange. I had swelling in my feet first, then up my legs, and eventually all over. My joints started to hurt and feet were going from red to a reddish purple and back.

    Eventually my skin puffed out and went dry at the same time. Taking a shower made my skin swell even more and my head spin, which I’m almost certain was from the heat.

    I started to lose sensory perception over time. Colors started seeming more white. I had to crank up the volume. I couldn’t really feel things very solidly. I had weird smells come and go that no one else smelled. Food tasted strange.

    Then things got even weirder. It started to be like reality blurred with dreams. I was unable to sleep more than like three hours at a time and would wake up and be watching TV and dreaming at the same time. The two would blend together and when I was finally awake it actually seemed like it all really happened to me personally.

    I guess it got to the point where I just had to stop from the side effects. The one nice thing about it compared to, say, any AM or JWH RC is that it doesn’t use either napthalene or camphor. You don’t get that solid dry gunk inside, just slimy gloops that work their way out easily.

    I think the fluidity of it is what was causing the side effects.The old ones just get stuck in your lungs where as this one gets fully absorbed and distrubuted.

    Although I have less fears about long term problems from this one, and it is clearing out rather fast (weeks not months/years) the side effects during use pretty much prevented using it at all eventually.

    I’m starting to feel like I should be getting paid for this. Like it’s testing new drugs for big pharma or something.

    Just stick to bud.

  30. Lynne97060` says:

    Good ol’ bud! Doesn’t turn your feet purple or make your skin slough off, and we’re voting on legalizing possession of it in my state in November. I’ve got to get out and register stoners to vote in a few weeks — wish us luck!

  31. Berny1 says:

    I have been a heavy, heavy user. 5′ 10″ tall and 220 lbs. Im not sure but maybe am2201.
    I used a flush and then Im excercising profusely,pounding water and was wondering how long to get clean?

  32. curstee says:

    my boyfriend and brother have been pot smokers for around 15 years(the only bad effects i noticed was them getting the munchies)they were very easy to get along with and willing to help with anything i needed them to do in the house. but 6 months ago tried synthetic cannaboids which is legal and readily available at sex shops, tobaccanists etc, they havnt touched natural pot since , they originally thought it was great that theyd stopped the illegal pot smoking but theyre health is now going downhill fast, they are very antisocial, do nothing at all , the only time they go out is to purchase more of this crap that they are now heavily addicted to. honestly it is worse that watching a herion addict hanging out for their next shot. except they are like this after just 1 hour from their last cone. im pretty sure hanging out for heroin isnt this rapid. my brtother has been to his doctor about getting off this , his doctor told him not to go cold turkey as his organs may shut down and that he would need to be admitted into hospital, but was warned that there is a minimum 8 week waiting list. ive had to call an ambulance for my boyfriend 3 times in the last 6 months for what seemed like a heart attack. they both have a rattle sound in their breathing while they are asleep along with extreme body temperature, sometimes their bedding is wet from sweat and both suffer nightmares and hallucinations. their appetites are very poor, choosing sweets and junkfood over home cooked meals all the time. i dont allow them to smoke in the house as i have small children and dont want them exposed to it at all so they smoke in the shed out the back which is a fair distance from the house, because they need this stuff so regulary it means they have to walk down the back several times thru the cold night, then back inside to bed where their body heat skyrockets , going from hot to cold all the time seems to be causing what seems like pnemonia. theyre state of mind is so far from reality its mindblowing to me how they are coping with each day. this stuff is going to end up killing them if depression doesnt make them kill theirself . it is so sad to see them like this and i cant believe this stuff is legal. in despair i ended up going and buying them some natural cannabis to try to persuade them to smoke instead of the poison that is maiming and shortening their lives, however i got pulled over by police on my way home with the pot, i was charges with possession and had it taken off me, i now have to face court over this matter. i honestly dont feel like im in the wrong, i was trying to save my loved ones from being poisoned anymore. i feel so helpless as theyre smoking continues. the addiction to this stuff is outrageous. but its not illegal so what can be done. the government continues to reap the tax on this shit, lets hope theyre willing to put a lot more money into the mental health system cos theyre gonna need it. its tearing families apart.

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