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Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

By John Clarke

Drugs Discussion

This is now the third open thread on syn­thetic can­nabin­oids, fol­low­ing on from the JWH-018 Tox­ic­o­logy article and the first Syn­thetic Can­nabin­oid Dis­cus­sion thread.

Not that there are any points, but bonus points for backing up what you say with peer reviewed research. Please keep the dis­cus­sion sci­entific. You can talk about dodgy vendors if you must, espe­cially if there’s a bad batch going round, but please don’t link to them or turn this into a cus­tomer support thread. If you want to talk about indi­vidual smoking mix­tures, please do so Here.

Ok, go:.

282 Responses to Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

  1. Juugo417 says:

    I have a ques­tion for anyone that can answer I recently quit smoking “The Green” for the service and started smoking this stuff called Dead Rider it claims to be 100% marsh­mel­low leaf. And now they have tests for the JWH, AM, and RCS com­pounds, should I be con­cerned. The tests they developed for spice say:
    ■Accur­ately iden­ti­fies JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-081, JWH-250, AM-2201, RCS-4 and their meta­bol­ites
    But on the package it says con­tains no chem­ic­als and lists all the com­pounds above. I dont want to risk my job… I will quit if need be, but who doesnt like being stoned? 🙂

  2. Ratgirl13 says:

    I thought I had reached the pin­nacle of stim­u­lat­ing my syn­apses and was won­der­ing whether I needed to try another chem­ical when I real­ized a) I had a batch of poor quality product & b) one can smoke too much weed. (My late husband would be very proud of me for reach­ing that pre­cip­ice — he always told me I was a light­weight smoker.) Medi­cinal blood levels have to be main­tained care­fully — too much is as bad as too little. I think I need a nap now…zzz

  3. Drew says:

    I would suggest leaning towards the safe side. If any job drug screen­ing is testing for research chem­ic­als, any­thing is pos­sible. And I wouldn’t trust pack­aging. Ever.

    On another note- I’ve been exper­i­ment­ing with RCs for two years now due to a marijuana pos­ses­sion arrest. Up until now I have been ok. Semi-ok I guess… I was dispon­ded at my lack of ability to obtain a high from “regular weed”. It had to be, as all my friends would call it, “that fake shit”. Recently I’ve almost put myself in rehab­il­it­a­tion for being chemically/​emotionally depend­ent on AM-2201. But here’s the catch- I’ve had two batches of this stuff from another vendor that stopped selling it. Never had a problem with that stuff, it would just just stop getting me stoned. But this batch is giving me with­drawal symp­toms and manic anxiety.

    I’ve decided to self-detox with the help of Xanax. My con­clu­sion- dif­fer­ent vendors= def­in­ite dif­fer­ence in potency. DIS­CLAIMER: Those who already have mental/​emotional dis­orders or addict­ive per­son­al­it­ies should be EXTREMELY caucious in your research.

  4. Garret says:

    This ques­tion is for the guy who went on Nervesheild and French clay; have your eye float­ers gone away? are they caused by anxiety; Mine are still very pron­in­ent.


  5. Dave says:

    There is an update on this from the Air Force Times.

    2. As of 1 March 2011: The Admin­is­trator of the Drug Enforce­ment Admin­is­tra­tion (DEA) is issuing this final order to tem­por­ar­ily place five syn­thetic can­nabin­oids into the Con­trolled Sub­stances Act (CSA) pur­su­ant to the tem­por­ary schedul­ing pro­vi­sions. The sub­stances are 1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-018), 1-butyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-073), 1-[2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl]-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-200), 5-(1,1-dimethylheptyl)-2-[(1 R, 3 S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (CP-47,497), and 5-(1,1-dimethyloctyl)-2-[(1 R, 3 S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (can­nabi­cyc­lo­hex­anol; CP-47,497 C8 homo­logue). This action is based on a finding by the Admin­is­trator that the place­ment of these syn­thetic can­nabin­oids into Sched­ule I of the CSA is neces­sary to avoid an immin­ent hazard to the public safety. As a result of this order, the full effect of the CSA and its imple­ment­ing reg­u­la­tions includ­ing crim­inal, civil and admin­is­trat­ive pen­al­ties, sanc­tions and reg­u­lat­ory con­trols of Sched­ule I sub­stances will be imposed on the man­u­fac­ture, dis­tri­bu­tion, pos­ses­sion, import­a­tion, and export­a­tion of these syn­thetic can­nabin­oids.

  6. BLiZz says:

    like freedom said on t he back or the back blurry n repeats it.. i use to gt good blends by lookin at the back real quick use to… i said… now there is very few.. yall suck wit ya damania leaf heart attack epis­odes

  7. BLiZz says:

    what morphinol in jwh 200? let me guess it has ana­s­tetic prop­er­ties too… thats why there should be no ban on any jwh chem­icles purely the truth in strength told bottom fucking line if u wanna buy researchin shit its like buying diet pills not fda approved all amphet­amined up but on shit amps tbh all this hype is over pub­lic­sized well atleast we know how much weed it takes to over­dose now note that finding.. fuck man if you wanna put laws out on shit like that you should be putting laws on chem­istry and being allowed to learn it and also not having doctors learn it either.

  8. BLiZz says:

    Chem­icles are pretty fucking boring… why do you think all of a sudden there are so many to alter your pre­cep­tion doped up chem­ists make these test them ther­eselves some live on them daily u gonna tell me there aint no one out there on mdma every­day right now andi m gonna tell you thats bull­shit.

  9. Peter says:

    Hi Dave,
    How have you been? I am still recov­er­ing here. It is slightly over 1 year. For the most part I am ok but anytime I have any sort of dif­fi­culty breath­ing such as warm air of exer­cising, I start to panic. Still working through my issues but things have improved at least. Thanks for your help when I was in no mans land, I didnt really have any hope. Now I am just hoping I con­tinue to get better and beat this panic/​anxiety that I caused myself. Thanks

  10. Garret says:

    I know I have emailed you here a lot about eye float­ers and anxiety; I am sorry, I am still very con­scious of the float­ers. I am a bit depressed cause I am worried that the floater dis­turb­ance will never go. It’s a vicious circle(anxiety/eye float­ers). I can’t help seeing them most of the time. It also feels as if my heart is skip­ping every few minutes; maybe from the anxiety. It feels as everything is double hard to do! More advice needed. It’s almost 2 years ago since I smoked any­thing. Just to hear from some­body who has went through the same exper­i­ence and to know that their eye float­ers did dis­sip­ate also; that would be a big relief.

    Garret Fitzger­ald

  11. George says:

    Garret, you need to have a good opto­met­rist or opthal­mo­lo­gist check your eyes to see if it is some­thing float­ing in the fluid or if it is damage to your eye. The float­ers I have now are damage to the retina most likely from farm animals or pets. Damage to the retina can be very easy to get and can come from bac­teria from common animals.

    Anxiety has a huge mental com­pon­ent, so it can for the most part be addressed men­tally, but the irreg­u­lar heart­beat for me has remained, not as bad but still some­thing to work on.

    Good luck to you. If you figure it out, post it. 🙂

  12. Garret says:

    Hi george
    How Long have you the irregualr heart­beat?
    I reckon, because of the anxiety I have been pumping Adren­aline in to my system(might have caused the eye float­ers) which can make you fell pretty bad. George, do you know of anyone who has recovered 100%? I am a little worried that this may never pass. If I heard from someone that recovered from this and that everything cleared up I would be over the moon.


  13. Garret says:

    Hi George
    I think it all boils down to anxiety, hypo­chon­dria.

  14. Ratgirl13 says:

    Took you guys long enough. Amazing what twinges the human body can exper­i­ence without any­thing being wrong. People get a rash from using a new laundry deter­gent and rush to the emer­gency room think­ing they’ve got measles.

  15. bdubz says:

    I planned on making my own blend soon and I was won­der­ing if iso­p­ro­pyl alcohol 99% can be used?

  16. Garret says:

    Hi Ratgirl
    I know what you mean. This stuff is dan­ger­ous. Period.

  17. bdubz says:

    @Garret: Oh, please. I’ve been smoking the stuff for a few years without any ill effects. I guar­an­tee your prob­lems are caused by some­thing else. Quit being a hypo­chon­driac and don’t do drugs if you have anxiety and aren’t a happy, healthy person. You’d be amazed what the mind can con­vince itself. Also use mod­er­a­tion and don’t be greedy.

    Now, about my ques­tion about the use of iso­p­ro­pyl alcohol as a solvent…

    Iso­p­ro­pyl alcohol works very well as a solvent. Works much better than acetone and everclear, is less expens­ive and is much easier to find. I got a 4-pack of 99% medical grade iso­p­ro­pyl alcohol from costco for $8.

    My blend was 2 grams of JWH-210 to 50 grams of herb. 25 grams marsh­mal­low leaf, 12.5 grams mullein leaf and 12.5 grams lemon balm leaf. I am impressed with the marsh­mal­low leaf and very impressed with the mullein (stuff is nice and fluffy like real can­nabis) but next time I’ll prob­ably use pep­per­mint leaves instead of lemon balm leaves for a better flavor. The blend still tasted good but pep­per­mint leaves would’ve made it taste even better.

    I put my 2 grams of JWH-210 into a small spray bottle that has a fine, even mist and mixed it with 100 – 150 ml of iso­p­ro­pyl alcohol. The JWH-210 will not dis­solve in the solvent at room tem­per­at­ure so I heated up the isopropyl/​JWH mixture in the spray bottle by placing the spray bottle in a con­tainer of hot water for 5 minutes, shook it for 30 seconds and then repeated a couple more times until everything was dis­solved.

    I then evenly put my 50 grams of herbs into a 8×12 pyrex dish and sprayed them with the JWH/​iso mix. I sprayed the herbs evenly twice, shuffled everything up well and repeated until there was no JWH/​iso mix left. Took me about 45 minutes to do but you can do it faster if you spray more and mix less. It may take longer to dry and may contain hot spots if you speed the process up though. The slower, the better. A spatula works well for mixing the herbs.

    After drying for 8 hours, the end result was fant­astic. No hot spots, good flavor and good potency (not too strong and not too weak). I get a nice high from smoking 2 – 3 bowls and a notice­able buzz from one. My friends and cus­tom­ers seem to like it as well.

  18. Garret says:

    I don’t use drugs anymore; as someone once said grown ups don’t use drugs. I did get awful anxiety attack and felt very anxious for about 1 year. Like Dave above. You are right the eye float­ers were always there. The hypochondria/​anxiety only heightened them. Be careful with the stuff, a lot of people did get a bad reac­tion.

  19. Ratgirl13 says:

    Thanks, bdubz, for backing me — don’t think Garrett caught my sarcasm.

    I’m glad people are still getting good effects with these chem­ic­als, even if I was never able to fine tune an oral dosage. If I have to smoke, since I’m not being tested and live in an area where there’s fab­ulous organic THC avail­able, I’ve gone back to nature.

    Has anyone used their homemade mix­tures in vapor­izers?

  20. Garret says:

    wild life along with my wife
    I’m goin’ up on the moun­tain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    They got m’ mother ‘n father
    ‘n run down all my kin
    Folks I know I’m next
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    I’m goin’ up on the moun­tain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife? wife?
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    Wild life wild life wild life
    Wild life wild life wild life
    I’m goin’ up on the moun­tain along with m’ wife
    Find me uh cave ‘n talk them bears
    In t’ takin’ me in
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    Wild life
    It’s uh man’s best friend
    Wild life along with m’ wife
    I’m goin’ up on the moun­tain fo’ the rest uh m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ life
    ‘fore they take m’ wild life
    ‘fore they take m’ wife?
    ‘fore they take m’ wife
    Wild life wild life
    Wild life wild life
    I’m goin’ up on the moun­tain
    Find me uh cave ‘n talk the bears
    In t’ takin’ me in
    Wild life is uh mans best friend
    Wild life
    Wild life

    Be careful of the man-made stuff.
    This is what nature(weed) can do to you if you are not a whole sane person in wrong envir­on­ment:
    Green hocker croakin’
    In the Pygmy Twylyte

    Crankin’ an’ a-coke’n
    In the Winchell’s do-nut Midnite

    Out of his deep on a ‘fore day run
    Hurtin’ for sleep in the Quaalude Moon­light

    Green hocker in a Grey­hound locker
    Smokin’ in the Pygmy Twylyte

    Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
    By the doo-doo room with the reek replete

    Crystal eye, crystal eye
    Got a crystal kidney & he’s fraid to die
    In the Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite
    Pygmy Twylyte
    Downer midnite

    Thanks for the advice.


  21. Alice says:

    Has anyone tried ur-144?

    I want to thank Dave for the info for the service guy.

    Since the mil­it­ary is now testing for per­scrip­tion abuse and syn­thet­ics, I just wish I knew which ones they were testing for.

  22. Tom says:

    @Peter and George

    I have suffered with heart pal­pit­a­tions, aware­ness of heart beat, chest pain, and flut­ter­ing for two years till this date. This happened after I smoked incense/jwh-018. I did not try french green clay yet. Peter and George, did you have any of these symp­toms and are they still present? Input is greatly appre­ci­ated. Thanks in advance

  23. Tom says:

    @ Peter and George
    Hi, I smoked a herbal incense with jwh-018 or some other chem­ical in it two years ago, and from that date I have had heart pal­pit­a­tions, ability to hear my heart beat, heart flut­ter­ing sen­sa­tions, ringings in ears, chest pain, pres¬sure below the left breast. My symp­toms are present all day and only get better If I do not get enough sleep.

    Did you guys exper­i­ence some of these symp­toms before taking the french green clay?

    From what I read in your pre­vi­ous posts, I under­stand one should take the french green clay to get rid of the chem­ical, but Swanson does not have it anymore.
    Any input is greatly appre­ci­ated. Thank you for your time

  24. Ratgirl13 says:

    Tom, you have anxiety. Try cog­nit­ive beha­vior therapy and prune juice (works for Klin­gons).

  25. tulkas says:


    I’m at about nine months since I stopped vaping the pure syn­thetic powder (JWH-018, AM-2201, and JWH-210). I haven’t even smoked MJ in that time as I’ve been letting my lungs clear out the glue-like gunk that the syn­thetic becomes.

    It’s true you have anxiety, but it’s def­in­itely not without good reason. Mine was ter­rible. But when you feel like you have a severe lung flu, or asthma attack that per­sists for months it is going to make that anxiety from detox­ing spike pretty bad.

    I’m only now start­ing to feel some­what better. I wouldn’t say 100% but a whole lot more than the day I stopped. I still cough up bits of the glue crap but a lot less and a lot less often. The anxiety has more or less passed and I should be able to consume MJ again at around the year mark I’d guess.

    I tried the clay for a couple weeks, and hon­estly it didn’t really do any­thing. I suspect a placebo effect from people who say it helps (or pos­sibly just timed right with their recov­ery period).

    What you really need to do to feel better is get a pre­scrip­tion for a long half-life ben­zo­diazepine from your doctor. I recom­mend diazepam (Valium): I’ve tried the top four and it’s the only one that didn’t make me want to sleep all day. That will help stop your mind from pan­ick­ing and allow your body the time it needs to heal.

    If you can get a oxygen tank pre­scrip­tion, that helps too. Don’t smoke or vape any­thing for around a year after stop­ping. Get exer­cise when your breath­ing improves. Try to occupy your mind so it can’t dwell on feeling ill, a good MMO or FPS type game does just that.

    Try to hack the crap out of your lungs every day. Humid­i­fi­ers help, but also can give you an infec­tion if used too much, or if you don’t used dis­tilled water in them. I used one at first then stopped after getting the infec­tion. Prob­ably better to pass on it.

    Drink a lot of water, Gat­o­rade or Powerade, and in the early stages Ensure type drinks help tre­mend­ously.

    I didn’t think it would be alright, and felt the fear you feel, but if you take it easy on your body, calm your mind, and are pre­pared to be very patient, you’ll start feeling better even­tu­ally too.

    Lesson here is nature made chem­ic­als are def­in­itely better to use than some man made crap that has little to no inform­a­tion on side effects or long term effects. This is what the silly illeg­al­iz­a­tion of MJ has driven us to: using some mad sci­ent­ist lab crap that could very well be poison.

  26. Ratgirl13 says:

    @tulkas, thanks for your bril­liant, caring answer. I lose patience with folks who say they try some­times a few times and they are now beset with mental health symp­toms that only a placebo can cure…

  27. Garret says:

    My anxiety is almost gone. I would say that I have 2% more healing to go. I still have very prom­in­ent float­ers. It felt like I suf­fer­ing from hypo­chon­dria and anxiety all the time; now I am almost better. I still worry some­times; mostly about what the fuck was the stuff I smoked in the first place and what the long term side effects could be. After my panic from the stuff, the fol­low­ing morning I awoke with hypo­chon­dria and anxiety. For some strange reason I felt that I had damaged my vision, why I don’t know! All my energy was dir­ec­ted to my vision field, and at the same time I was very anxious. Then the eye float­ers popped up. I am sure I had them all the time. I notice them now; before I did not.
    I hope they go away. It’s like looking through dirty water all the time.
    Any good news anyone?

  28. RANDY VOEKS says:

    I’m looking for feed­back and people’s exper­i­ences with AM1248?

  29. James says:


    Use time: 6 weeks
    Amount con­sumed: ~8g/​total, ~200mg/​day

    Seems to stay fluid once melted unlike the napthalene based ones. This means it doesn’t solid­ify in your lungs like the those ones do. Larger amounts are required and more fre­quently than older RCs. The peak lasts 30 min then is a very dra­matic drop off, not the coast­ing down to a plateau. Pleas­ant at first, then hyper-addict­ing. Any­thing beyond a week is pushing it.

    Ok, so here’s the deal with it. The side effects are pretty bad. It isn’t like the older gen­er­a­tion RCs where you only really notice side effects from over­dos­ing or when you quit.

    They are actu­ally quite strange. I had swell­ing in my feet first, then up my legs, and even­tu­ally all over. My joints started to hurt and feet were going from red to a reddish purple and back.

    Even­tu­ally my skin puffed out and went dry at the same time. Taking a shower made my skin swell even more and my head spin, which I’m almost certain was from the heat.

    I started to lose sensory per­cep­tion over time. Colors started seeming more white. I had to crank up the volume. I couldn’t really feel things very solidly. I had weird smells come and go that no one else smelled. Food tasted strange.

    Then things got even weirder. It started to be like reality blurred with dreams. I was unable to sleep more than like three hours at a time and would wake up and be watch­ing TV and dream­ing at the same time. The two would blend together and when I was finally awake it actu­ally seemed like it all really happened to me per­son­ally.

    I guess it got to the point where I just had to stop from the side effects. The one nice thing about it com­pared to, say, any AM or JWH RC is that it doesn’t use either napthalene or camphor. You don’t get that solid dry gunk inside, just slimy gloops that work their way out easily.

    I think the fluid­ity of it is what was causing the side effects.The old ones just get stuck in your lungs where as this one gets fully absorbed and dis­trub­uted.

    Although I have less fears about long term prob­lems from this one, and it is clear­ing out rather fast (weeks not months/​years) the side effects during use pretty much pre­ven­ted using it at all even­tu­ally.

    I’m start­ing to feel like I should be getting paid for this. Like it’s testing new drugs for big pharma or some­thing.

    Just stick to bud.

  30. Lynne97060` says:

    Good ol’ bud! Doesn’t turn your feet purple or make your skin slough off, and we’re voting on leg­al­iz­ing pos­ses­sion of it in my state in Novem­ber. I’ve got to get out and register stoners to vote in a few weeks — wish us luck!

  31. Berny1 says:

    I have been a heavy, heavy user. 5′ 10″ tall and 220 lbs. Im not sure but maybe am2201.
    I used a flush and then Im excer­cising profusely,pounding water and was won­der­ing how long to get clean?

  32. curstee says:

    my boy­friend and brother have been pot smokers for around 15 years(the only bad effects i noticed was them getting the munchies)they were very easy to get along with and willing to help with any­thing i needed them to do in the house. but 6 months ago tried syn­thetic can­naboids which is legal and readily avail­able at sex shops, tobac­can­ists etc, they havnt touched natural pot since , they ori­gin­ally thought it was great that theyd stopped the illegal pot smoking but theyre health is now going down­hill fast, they are very anti­so­cial, do nothing at all , the only time they go out is to pur­chase more of this crap that they are now heavily addicted to. hon­estly it is worse that watch­ing a herion addict hanging out for their next shot. except they are like this after just 1 hour from their last cone. im pretty sure hanging out for heroin isnt this rapid. my brtother has been to his doctor about getting off this , his doctor told him not to go cold turkey as his organs may shut down and that he would need to be admit­ted into hos­pital, but was warned that there is a minimum 8 week waiting list. ive had to call an ambu­lance for my boy­friend 3 times in the last 6 months for what seemed like a heart attack. they both have a rattle sound in their breath­ing while they are asleep along with extreme body tem­per­at­ure, some­times their bedding is wet from sweat and both suffer night­mares and hal­lu­cin­a­tions. their appet­ites are very poor, choos­ing sweets and junk­food over home cooked meals all the time. i dont allow them to smoke in the house as i have small chil­dren and dont want them exposed to it at all so they smoke in the shed out the back which is a fair dis­tance from the house, because they need this stuff so reg­u­lary it means they have to walk down the back several times thru the cold night, then back inside to bed where their body heat skyrock­ets , going from hot to cold all the time seems to be causing what seems like pne­mo­nia. theyre state of mind is so far from reality its mind­blow­ing to me how they are coping with each day. this stuff is going to end up killing them if depres­sion doesnt make them kill their­self . it is so sad to see them like this and i cant believe this stuff is legal. in despair i ended up going and buying them some natural can­nabis to try to per­suade them to smoke instead of the poison that is maiming and short­en­ing their lives, however i got pulled over by police on my way home with the pot, i was charges with pos­ses­sion and had it taken off me, i now have to face court over this matter. i hon­estly dont feel like im in the wrong, i was trying to save my loved ones from being poisoned anymore. i feel so help­less as theyre smoking con­tin­ues. the addic­tion to this stuff is out­rageous. but its not illegal so what can be done. the gov­ern­ment con­tin­ues to reap the tax on this shit, lets hope theyre willing to put a lot more money into the mental health system cos theyre gonna need it. its tearing fam­il­ies apart.

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