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Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion

By John Clarke

Drugs Discussion


UPDATE: This thread is now closed. Please continue the discussion here: Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

This post is now the place to comment on the JWH-018 Toxicology article.

Not that there are any points, but bonus points for backing up what you say with peer reviewed research. Please keep the discussion scientific. You can talk about dodgy vendors if you must, especially if there’s a bad batch going round, but please don’t link to them or turn this into a customer support thread. If you want to talk about individual smoking mixtures, please do so Here.

Ok, go:.

396 Responses to Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion

  1. D3 says:

    Hindenburger,
    You are right. To admit it hinders healing so you get bronchitis that doesn’t go away for months.
    It causes some addiction for sure also. It’s time to think about it depending on how you use RC’s.
    Herbal blends in a pipe are very harmful. It’s been a year for SWIM and feels like it’s time to break away.
    But enjoy for yourselves your pleasures . It’s very enjoyable so SWIM says.

  2. Synchronium says:

    If anyone can take lots of pics of them making a blend, I’d happily write a “How To” article around it.

  3. lazarus says:

    My Iolite vaporizer is proving to be the solution to the smoking conundrum. As I have mentioned before – the efficiency level of the delivery systems appear to be; 1) smoking, 2) vaping (blend only), and by a somewhat distant third – oral solution.

    I find the Iolite to be extremely efficient, easy to use, highly portable and discreet. One can be had for under $200. I’m rather surprised more here do not use one.

    And as a final note – as this likely will be my last post here or on any other such forum – I have a concern about the sharing of e-mail addresses. I have begun to receive junk mail from vendors I have never done business with. As I find it hard to believe a vendor would share an address with a competitor – well – I’ll leave the rest to your imagination.

    Happy trails…

  4. Synchronium says:

    Unless you put your email address in the comment itself, no one else can see it.

  5. Overwatch says:

    Jay believes he’s discovered something noteworthy in terms of repeat dosing, tolerance and withdrawal symptoms. As you may have heard, a company has developed a urine test that can detect Cannabinoids for 72 hours post dose. Ironically, or by sure design, that seems to be the same amount of time needed to fully recover, including withdrawal symptoms, from daily high dose cannabinoid usage.

    Jay found himself alone with nothing to do for an entire week. He decided to dose frequently several times per day for the entire week. On day five he couldn’t stand the idea of getting high again, dreaded the ritual and stopped completely. The following day wasn’t too bad. He felt dazed for the first half and then started developing mild anxiety the second half. Day two was filled with mild anxiety, body aches, stomach aches, chills/sweating and a general feeling of being unwell. Day three was a gradual incline to feeling better, regaining short term memory and achieving a return to baseline mental focus, agility and ability.

    Laz…..Thanks for the input regarding the Iolite. I’ve read about the Volcano which seems too expensive for me. If you’re getting junk E-mail rest assured it isn’t coming from this site / administrator. I’ve posted my legit E-mail address in the box beneath “Leave a Reply” and haven’t gotten a single piece of junk.

  6. Allprowe says:

    I made my first batch of using 18 and Everclear. 4oz of Damiana 1 gm. jwh mixed in one cup of Everclear. I cant purchase the Everclear in our state so I made a road trip to Oregon. Fresh is best I have always said. Great blend mellow trip. 1$ per gram

  7. JT says:

    Hey, The military has a banned on JWH-18 and now has a drug test for it. How long is jwh-18 tracable in your system?

  8. Overwatch says:

    JT…..If so, tell us the name of the testing company and illustrate via web documentation that they (DOD) are using this company’s test. I don’t believe they are currently testing for Cannabinoids.

  9. Ratgirl13 says:

    Reporting back in after a week away…

    (Much love to Hindenburger for doing molecules, especially molecular biological ones. Are you any relation to Hamburger? Dogs need to know.)

    Every day for four weeks I’d consumed my JWH-18, 3-6 ml everclear solution, either smoked or orally. I decided to leave it behind on my camping trip. Had absolutely NO withdrawal symptoms whatsoever, or rather nothing that I could ascribe specifically to withdrawal rather than a decreased quality of sleep, being that I was sleeping on the ground. No chills, nothing. ‘Cause I’m female? ‘Cause I’m doing straight 18 and not a mix of 18 & 73?

    What was even more interesting is that I had no desire or craving for the high. I got home Tuesday evening (Aug 10) and had absolutely no feeling of “can’t wait to get home and get high.” Just now (Aug 14) I decided to put a 3 ml dose of 18 Everclear solution in my beer, and we’ll see in an hour or so what my body does to it. We have also learned that the solution stands up to five weeks in a balloon, er, sorry, refrigerator. Jules Verne is a favorite of mine.

    Here’s something else that I find interesting: I am permanently disabled with mood disorders (anxiety, chronic depression aka dysthymia and PTSD) and found organic cannabis the best possible medicine. I decided to research the 18 as a substitute for MJ because of the legal issues involved, the health issues of smoking and also because a measured oral dosage is something I can work with more easily in the research. I found that both the organic and the 18 seemed to exacerbate feelings of fatigue and created a similar flattening of emotional reaction, which I call “putting a Teflon shield between me and the world.)

    Apparently the experience of interacting with the world for four weeks while “shielded” left behind something behaviorally (neuronally?) Cognitive Behavior Therapy would say that practice in dealing with situations in safety is essential before one engages in the real world, and that the only way to evolve one’s reaction is practice. I discuss all of this experimentation with my therapist so that I have the input of another perspective that I can trust. So we may have a very valuable molecule here. Science rocks!

    I’m going to a real doctor for the first time in several years on Monday, and I’d thought that perhaps I shouldn’t put any JWH-18 in my system so that I wouldn’t skew the medical tests, but I know my usual results and so, if anything is out of the ordinary, I’ll consider it something to be tested further.

    Laz, I second Overwatch’s comment on your email issue — this isn’t the droid you’re looking for. I’ve had no trouble resulting from my participation on this forum. Long ago I realized that the best way to avoid garbage in my mailbox was a) never click on anything that says “free” and b) stay away from porn. “a)” is a no-brainer, but “b)” takes discipline.

    Anybody have any experience with JWH-019 or 5-MeO-Dalt?

  10. JT says:

    I have no idea what the company name is. All I do know is that there are several reports on people being discharged from the military for using jwh-18. I would just like to know if there is ANY way that the can trace it in your system….and how long it stays in your system

  11. judgmentday says:

    redwood toxicology…no proof they have a government contract or not? stays in your system for 72 hours depending on dose…

  12. Overwatch says:

    JT….To answer your question, Yes and 72 hours according to the only company that offers a test. It is highly unlikely the Department of Defense has evaluated, accepted and contracted with this company for ongoing urine testing. Logic, when factoring the cost, affirms this unlikely scenario.

    Let’s not further the hype by repeating unverified claims of discharges (based upon failed urine testing), UCMJ charges and JWH urine testing within our military.

  13. JSOTS Tim says:

    The military will do what they want to do — and get away with it — no matter if what they want is legal-ish or NOT.

    If they discharge folks for using JWH and/or Salvia, it’s probably just a kneejerk reaction to make SURE Servicepeople don’t have anything besides the good ol’ tobacco and alcohol standyby’s.

    They have to be careful to keep all those ‘peace and love’ types out of the ranks as much as possible… I know this from personal experience.

  14. D3 says:

    Hi,
    I need to share swims experience: After making over several pounds of blends and smoking the blends for almost a year it’s time for swim to stop.
    Maybe the drinking didn’t help matters for sure but he can’t take the chance again.
    He drank several drinks and smoked only 5 hits in 8 hours then felt burnt out and slept for 2 hours. Within a half hour of awakening he felt extremely short of breath, weight on chest like a heart attack. He paced and waited but it felt worse maybe due to anxiety of no one there in case of it going to cardiac arrest.
    He called his wife and she took him to the hospital. After not wanting to answer the questions and spending ther nite getting some aspirin and nitroglycerine they suggested a a treadmill stress test with Thalium for diagnosis. he refused and the tradmill stress test minus Thalium showed no abnormal condition.
    He went home and 9 hours later is feeling anxious and short of breath, tightness in chest, tingling in arms and spacey.
    No lecture but be aware. This ol’ scientist is on a dry-out path and hoping effects go away soon.

    D3 bows out of the JWH realm. Never had those effects from the real stuff and it could be many factors but nonetheless, it’s uncomfortable to say the least.

  15. Bama420 says:

    D3, Just let SWIM know that we are a million miles from yesterday, Let It Be, mentally! Live the damn moment and have fun! Nothing like a good shot of Cabo Wabo Tequila Blue Agave, that is an experience! I had to stop due to same thing SWIM experienced, I set off my defibulator. Shocked the wee wee out of me! LMAO! Don’t hurt yourself dwelling on it. You don’t seem like a candidat for Post Trauma! Be good to yourself, you deserve it!

  16. Ratgirl13 says:

    Bama & D3 — are we talking about just 018 or combinations of several JWH ingredients?

  17. D3 says:

    Bama and Ratgirl-
    First, thanks Bama, I am trying. Last nite I did feel sick but I walked for an hour today and do feel better. A little Cabo is good stuff. Life is more than just being high for this or that. I hope to stay off the stuff though.
    Ratgirl- It was a combo of 18,73,81,250 and Damiana. Is that bad?

  18. Bama420 says:

    D3 I worked with those same 4 and added WIN FX to the Withch’s Brew and it was great orally ingested, long mellow sublime. Smoked wasn’t as good with the weaker compounds. Best of Luck, I feel You!!!!
    Bama

  19. Ratgirl13 says:

    D3, it’s just that it might be one of the ingredients that causes the heart palpitations, or the combination of these particular ones in particular amounts, and there’s no way for us guinea pigs to sort it out. But it demonstrates why pharmaceutical companies spend so much money trying to figure out exactly what works, what’s safe and what’s toxic. Infinite diversity, infinite combinations…my Star Trek is showing.

  20. Bama420 says:

    Well Put!

  21. sarah says:

    i would just like to say that when i smoke serenity the first time my friend told me that it wouldn’t be the same as weed so i thought that meant it wouldn’t be strong (and i’d only smoked weed maybe three times before this) so i took eight hits off the bat and i had a panic attack and i would have insisted on going to the hospital if it wasn’t for my friend being there because i thought i was dying and after being told to sit down and just chill i saw stuff and was really scared and paranoid. since then i’ve tired it again but taking only two hits and it made me feel fine. i would have to say its okay to use with a small dose especially if its your first time. but doing a lot of it at once could be very dangerous especially since your heart rate picks up when you smoke it no matter how chill and tired you feel. anyway thats my opinion

  22. vertices says:

    Hello all,
    I am a long time follower and first time poster. I have been very pleased with the jwh series and the information that I have found in this thread, most notably the posts from x1. I would like to thank everyone.
    I am very curious about RCS-4 and RCS-8 but I cannot seem to find much information on either. Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks

  23. a coma says:

    i have been smoking jwh-018 and several products that contain and have been using a home made blend using alcohol as the reagant for 13 months now and for the longest time had no side effects other than stomach aches from time to time when a little too much was used but within the last two months i have been getting more serious side effects, such as vomitting blood. the first time i vomitted blood i figured i was just sick so continue to use but i believe the effects are worsening. i can slack off a few days and feel my body healing so to speak but everytime used in large quanities something as small as a smokers cough will cause me to throw up blood. enough lab rat for me…

  24. Ratgirl13 says:

    Sarah, I agree with you — I think that anything you put into your body the first time is going to have a more extreme reaction. I hope your friend told you to “sit down and chill” nicely and politely, and am glad to see that you were willing to give the experience another try. It’s hard to sort out the apprehension over a new experience from the way a new chemical makes you feel from the danger zone.

    a coma, please see a doctor about your stomach. Vomiting blood is an emergency symptom. The next time it happens, save the vomit and go to the hospital.

    It sounds like something other than JWH is going on, perhaps something serious. A synthetic cannabinoid shouldn’t do anything radically different than an organic cannabinoid, and you don’t report any oral consumption, nor do people report these signs from smoking MJ. I think it is a coincidence, the JWH and the stomach problems.

    Please get it checked out. I’m not a doctor, I just play one on the Internet….but I’m a polymath and read medicine for fun. Just not at the molecular level. (I shall no longer curdle my mucosal proteins by inhaling smoke!)

  25. Ratgirl13 says:

    I figure that since I still have half a gram of 18 from July 7, and since I shall no longer curdle my mucosal proteins by inhaling hot smoke, I should send for the lecithin as discussed above.

    I notice that there are two types of dry lecithin, granulated and powdered. This would explain why the previous poster mentioned really having to chop the stuff up. I had visions of razor blades and mirrored coffee tables. I sent for the powder, figuring that I could work with the capsules to compare onset time.

    However I do not know how to search this page to find the previous posts on lecithin. Please help!

    I had to bring my $9 order to a minimum of $10 (plus $12 shipping — I can send a package to England for that!) so bought some ephedra seeds. I’m reading a book called “Inside the Outbreaks: The Elite Medical Detectives of the Epidemic Intelligence Service” by Mark Pendergrast which mentions how ephedra got pulled off the market. The merchant from which I purchased the products indicated ephedra could possibly be a nerve tonic, which I find quite appealilng. I would love to play with plants I’ve nurtured myself!

    I still haven’t played with the salvia on the balcony, though I’m sure it’s not THAT type of salvia (having bought it at K-Mart).

    Anyone interested in public health and bacteria might enjoy the “Outbreaks” book immensely.

  26. Ratgirl13 says:

    Hello Vertices,

    Welcome to here.

    I know nothing about RCS-4 and RCS-8. (I was new a couple months ago, and I barely understand JWH-18.) I wonder….are labs inventing their own names for what they sell? Has someone started selling chemicals under the name of “Recreational Chemical?”

    That is just too etymologically weird.

  27. vertices says:

    I ask about RCS-4 and RCS-8 because a certain supplier is offering it. I suspect it is a synthetic cannabinoid but would like to verify.
    ratgirl,
    I think that because many states have scheduled the jwh series that the chemists have tweaked chains of molecules to avoid legislation and to continue sales. I know I would.

  28. Overwatch says:

    I have read a great deal of Internet discussion and “trip reports” on RCS-8 (aka. SR-18) and a little bit about RCS-4. The general understanding is that these compounds are being created to bypass legislation in the UK as well as new laws against synthetic cannabinoids in the US. Per several dose reports they are not as strong as -18, -73, -250, etc. Most testers have reported back saying they are not worthwhile where the original / popular Cannabinoids are still available and legal. Stay tuned as these make their way across the market and the associated trip reports are posted. You should have an accurate idea of their viability within mere weeks.

    As for Jay, he’s held his usage to one day per weekend following his five day testing binge. This schedule is truly, as I think X1 would agree, ideal. It allows, during the course of your weekdays, to lose all tolerance. Not to mention the ability to be truly productive during your week. The first dose on Saturday is the good ole slam to the system. Strange….following the binge week, there is no trace of addiction toward the stuff. No strong desire, no persistent need. However, he still has an attraction for a dose — but no more than, say, an attraction to go play a fun sport on the weekend.

    Jay will place is final order to “stock up” on Monday before the law goes into effect in his state a mere six days later. Kinda sad.

  29. Ratgirl13 says:

    Note: Grossness follows…

    Having taken time off from 018 I was able to better observed what happened to me regarding the overeating we’ve all reported…

    I had noticed that I wasn’t eating all night after coming back from camping and throughout the following, and then yesterday I took the 5 ml dose of Moonshine Mix….

    I ate most of a huge salad, then 3/4 of a pint of ice cream, then a huge wedge of watermelon and finally half a dozen crackers, at which point my body rebelled and I had severe stomach cramps before I threw up at least a quart, if not more, of the partially-digested above-mentioned foods…

    Does 18 turn off what they used to call the “appestat” in commercials, disrupting the brain-stomach “I’m full” connection? Or does it jack up the need for oral stimulation to the point where the brain disregards the full signal because the mouth wants more?

    Many antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds also seem to lead to increased eating. Something to do with serotonin maybe?

  30. Overwatch says:

    Rat……Good questions. As for Jay personally, he gets really “into” whatever he’s doing while soaring. If it’s a TV show, music, swinging in a hammock, sex or eating — mind, body and spirit are all involved 100%. And thus the tendency to indulge. For him eating is awesome because everything tastes so great, smells phenomenal and makes him even feel good afterward. He recalls spending a few solid minutes smelling a jar of new peanut butter after pealing back the lid. Ha! Sounds funny, but it really smelled awesome to him.

    The creme da la creme for Jay in terms of munchies is a dangerous concoction he makes. Edy’s slow churn vanilla ice cream, sliced fresh bananas and strawberry, topped with hersheys chocolate. It is……well….words wouldn’t do it justice.

  31. Ratgirl13 says:

    The Rat would like to add some whipped cream and a cherry to Jay’s concoction…

    And rhapsodizing over the smell of peanut butter doesn’t sound all that odd to me — I have a dog who has taught me that there’s pleasure in a deep sniff. We just disagree on what’s good to sniff…

  32. phish says:

    Ratgirl you are eligible for medicinal marijuana in applicable states. I hate seeing people get on psychiatric drugs when the person is helped by cannabis.

    Jwh-018 on the way– will report back with experiences

  33. Ratgirl13 says:

    Ah, phish…if only…. I am only eligible for medical marijuana in New Mexico, which allows for PTSD… And I agree, I hate seeing people on psychiatric drugs when cannabis would work! But it is hard to gain credibility when one starts from a position of having a mental health issue — easy to dismiss us as “nuts!”

    That’s what started my research with JWH — that and the smoking aspect. I spent a month researching my state’s medical marijuana program before beginning my JHW-018 experiments.

    Overwatch, I have a question for Jay about his binge week: Anything to report on sleeping or dreams?

    My lecithin is on the way, and I was actually smart — apparently saved the recipe even though I have no recollection of it. Will be experimenting with sublingual lecithin blend capsules vs curdling my lung mucus with heat…looking for a quick augment to the 5-hr oral JWH-18 basic experience.

  34. H=4 says:

    Jwh-18 gave me hallucinations and paranoia, I loved it, it produced the most intricate delusional flights of fancy, spiraling evolved plots off of fragments of data, love the auditory hallucinations, has anyone seen ghosts or had really strange thoughts, on jwh I mean? I think they are great stories and artifacts of the experience, worth recording.
    H~

  35. Overwatch says:

    Rat….It’s hard for Jay to remember much from that week, but doesn’t recall any problems sleeping. He seems to remember a vague line between being high w/ your eyes closed and mind engaged to being totally asleep.

    However, the two days following the binge sleeping was horrible. Mind fully engaged, racing almost as if it had been asleep during the entire high and now trying to catch up. Tossing, turning, hot, cold, uncomfortable, wide awake, etc, etc.

  36. D3 says:

    Wow Overwatch, you had some wild times…As for me, I haven’t had any consumption for 11 days since Ground Zero. Feel back to normal but lungs are still clearing out little by little.
    Too nervous that things might go awry again so not sure if will try again.
    Everyone has their own experience it seems.
    Ratgirl you are a hoot..

  37. bench43 says:

    To x1 and Ratgirl:

    Hey, i’ve read up on your comments about mountain industry. Thanks for the info! Was about to pull the trigger on buying some JWH-018 from them but im glad i found your posts.

    I’ve had great results from Sacra, but 018 is illegal in my state. When i called mountain, the lady told me they would ship anywhere and it was up to the buyer to know the laws in their state.

    Has there been anymore information found on these people? because I’d really like to get my hands on some 018

    THANKS!!

  38. Ratgirl13 says:

    Not that I would ever, ever encourage anyone to do anything that is even remotely illegal in their state, but in retrospect, bench43, I believe that the product I received from mountain was actually 18 in some sort of precursor state to the dry white powder we’ve received from others.

    Being that there’s no way I would spend $$$ on chemicals to get high and then not use them to get high, I processed it and tried it against everyone’s advice (Spank that rat!) and it gave me an 18 experience identical to the powder with the provenance. I hadn’t looked at the solution in the fridge for a few weeks, so just did — heavy white layer of crystal-looking precipitate on the bottom of the jar of ethanol. My guess is that, with heat, it will dissolve again for a clear liquid. For my next experiment, tho, I must have powder!

    Hooty toot toot, D3. We’re generally smart people, we experimental types. Yet we torture our lungs. It reminds me of wearing high heels…something you men wouldn’t know much about. Balancing pleasure with pain….pun sorta intended.

  39. Bench43 says:

    disclaimer: I was mentally incompetent earlier and will certainly not be breaking any laws!

    Ratgirl, Thanks for that. I’ve only dealt with powder. Mountain, I believe, advertise their product as being 99.9% (first red flag) crystalline powder.

    Did you ever get any satisfaction from the company in the way of replacement, etc.? They seem to have a very strict return policy (2nd red flag) as opposed to recemz or others.

    The fact that they said they would ship to any state was seemed like a warning sign as well.

    Not to mention the fact that their spam is strewn about the internet with coupon codes (which work). They just scream shady to me. I was very lucky (or smart) enough to get a reliable supplier on my first try (SR). But they carry way more chems.

    In your opinion are a legitimate supplier?

  40. Ratgirl13 says:

    bench, I’d say mountain is a legitimate supplier, but I’m not sure of what… I sent them money and got something in return…

    Although what I got was, I believe, JWH-018, I definitely did not receive crystalline powder nor did I receive an answer when I emailed them. The problem is that we’re using these chemicals in disregard of the manufacturers’ warnings — not for human consumption — and so usage can’t be discussed.

    It goes to the heart of my issues with recreational chemicals in general. I need the effects of the chemicals but won’t play the games necessary to “score” cannabis. And I’m not inclined to play games with merchants, either, whether they’re selling recreational chemicals or shoes.

    I know Dr. Syn wants to keep this from being a discussion of suppliers, but I think there are legitimate questions about the how one purchases something with the potential for harm when one cannot discuss one’s purchase with the merchant.

  41. Ratgirl13 says:

    H=4, thank you for sharing your experience. For our consideration, how much did you take, how did you take it, over what time period?

    Overwatch, I had three “sober” days. During these days I had the same erotic character in my detailed dreams. (His name was Jack Biatti, he had straight golden brown hair worn in a bowl cut and he kept telling me I was beautiful…very good for the libido.)

    Yesterday I took 5 ml of my solution in a 12 oz beer at about 7 pm on an empty stomach. There was a little nausea involved. My dream was boring and involved a business day where even the boss/teacher said, go ahead and watch TV, I don’t care, just stay here until the day is over.

    However keeping the 18 in my system helps me deal with the weird neighbor in the apartment block. I’m taking 4ml in 7 oz of beer this afternoon, hoping to get lots of housework done.

    Beer…one of my favorite lines in LOTR is, “You mean it comes in pints?!?”

  42. Overwatch says:

    Just in case anyone was wondering how much suppliers are paying per gram of -18…. $9 US Dollars per gram shipped (in one kilo) to their door. Nice mark up, nice business.

  43. Bama420 says:

    Hey Overwatch, I say we carpool and get the same advantage! Everybody just send me your card numbers and I promise I am good for it! LMAO! Not a bad idea though, 10 people to divide out a kilo, someone else do the math, I got a slide rule, but under influence of 018 at this time, back to the guitar!

  44. Carova says:

    Overwatch Quote – “Just in case anyone was wondering how much suppliers are paying per gram of -18…. $9 US Dollars per gram shipped (in one kilo) to their door.”

    Anyone who is paying that much from a Lab is getting ripped off! The prices this week for 018/073 have been $2,800-$4,400 USD per kilo shipped (depending upon purity and analytical supporting data). The prices that Overwatch quoted would be appropriate if the purchaser were getting these compounds from a rather expensive Middleman.

  45. JSOTS Tim says:

    I generally try to get someone who knows what they’re doing to introduce me to new Research Chemicals and such.

    Sometimes it’s possible, sometimes not, and sometimes I’VE been the one to take that first big step in my peer group — try something out — and then say “Hey y’all, try this! Here’s how much you need to use, and how to use it, and these are the kinds of things it might likely do, good and bad.”

    If I LIKE something I want to share it, period. Some things are easier to share than others, and some things are better shared live and in person. When it comes to JWH RC’s, what I prefer mostly to do is give it away, in very small amounts, and let folks decide if it’s “right for them”.

    Works for me. It’s low key, non-commercial, personal, and due to some people making donations, pretty much breaks even. And it’s fun!

  46. Synchronium says:

    This thread is now closed. Please continue the discussion here: Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion II

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