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JWH-018 Toxicology

By John Clarke

ToxicSince my last post about the spice behind Spice (and other smoking mix­tures such as Smoke, Serenity Now, K2, Sence, etc), it has been brought to my atten­tion that some initial tox­ic­o­logy testing has been done on the syn­thetic can­nabinoid JWH-​​018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird back­ground inform­a­tion — the sponsor and pro­vider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfor­tu­nately, this makes the whole thing a lot less cred­ible, but since this is the only inform­a­tion we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one pro­fessor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal state­ment. If you, or anyone you know, has the rel­evant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!

(Quick Update — A lot of people have been dis­cussing and linking to this post, but there remains some sus­pi­cion that I have some­thing to gain by saying the JWH-​​018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-​​018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I men­tioned just above this, if I have got any­thing wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my ana­lysis of the data is incor­rect, I will correct it!)

Feel free to invent your own con­spiracy the­ories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can down­load the PDF doc­u­ments in this Zip file [2.04 MB]

CYP450 Inhibition Assay

This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on spe­cific enzymes in your liver. These Cyto­chrome P450 enzymes are respons­ible for meta­bol­ising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/​acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also meta­bol­ised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to under­stand how one drug may affect the meta­bolism of another, in case of any dis­as­terous drug-​​drug interactions.

Results: JWH-​​018 will prob­ably interact with the meta­bolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.

hERG Binding Assay

hERG stands for human Ether-​​à-​​go-​​go Related Gene. This gene codes for a par­tic­ular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are crit­ical in coördin­ating the heart’s elec­trical activity. Unfor­tu­nately, these chan­nels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, dis­rupting their func­tion. This can lead to “Long QT Syn­drome”, asso­ci­ated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these chan­nels are disrupted.

QT Interval

Results: JWH-​​018 does not inter­fere with these chan­nels. That’s a good thing.

Cytotoxicity Assay

This simple test essen­tially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.

Results: JWH-​​018 is not cyto­toxic at low concentrations.

GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay

This assay looks at how much a drug will inter­fere with our DNA. Typ­ic­ally, any­thing that damages DNA is bad news, being poten­tially car­ci­no­genic, making the rationale behind this test glar­ingly obvious. This test was also per­formed in the pres­ence of a frac­tion taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its break­down products.

Results: JWH-​​018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.

Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay

Guess what happens in this exper­i­ment. A number of ren­agade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and prom­ised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinoc­chio; that shit was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Ini­tially, they appear leth­argic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to prob­lems breathing rather than organ tox­icity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sens­itive to the com­pound. The drug didn’t appear to accu­mu­late in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, prob­ably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-​​018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachy­phylactic (my new favourite word — it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state fol­lowing an initial dosage).

Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equi­valent dose is 0.016 mg/​kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!

Rat Pharmacokinetics

Data is col­lected on a number of dif­ferent “phar­ma­cokin­etic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, dis­trib­uted throughout the body, meta­bol­ised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clin­ical trials.

Results: JWH-​​018 is dis­trib­uted well throughout the rat’s tissues. Meta­bolism and excre­tion are normal, with a plasma half-​​life of approx­im­ately 2 hours

Summary

Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-​​018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Gol­dacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.

Feel free to ask any ques­tions in the comments.

Big thanks to Alfa @ Drugs​-Forum​.com for letting me know about these studies. You can read all about JWH-​​018 on their Drugs Wiki.

COM­MENTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW CLOSED. YOU CAN CON­TINUE DIS­CUSSING SYN­THETIC CAN­NABIN­OIDS HERE OR INDI­VIDUAL SMOKING MIX­TURES HERE.

444 Responses to JWH-018 Toxicology

  1. ASM371 says:

    I can say for anyone who says they have had neg­ative side effects from smoking blends that I find this true in some instances. Spice Gold, Spice Diamond, Ulti­mate Warrior, and Spike 99 (I do not recom­mend these blends) all gave me a severe head pounding the next day. While the high was very extreme, almost trippy, the day after effects were not worth the buzz. Serenity Now & K3 are purer blends I believe, hell I even smoked 2 grams in one day of both and never exper­i­enced any neg­ative side effects besides being so damn stoned I couldn’t decide whether to sit on my ass or fall asleep. Since then I have quit con­suming any “spice blends” because I feel they have changed my psy­cho­lo­gic­ally and made me develop anger prob­lems. Also a friend of mine ordered the pure 018 and mix it 7 grams of damiana to 400 mgs of pure. The blend was nice and mellow, about the same as Serenity thou not as intense. I would recom­mend it in mod­er­a­tion ONLY. Also all my friends smoke, some exper­i­mented through a bong, gas mask, and vapor­izer. The worst feeling my buddy said he had was when he took 4 bong hits of Serenity, he said he was nervous, shaky, anxious, and had a panic attack. But also he said it only lasted for about 20 minutes and after that he was just really stoned. I don’t see any reason why this stuff is bad other than people who are not smart enough to use it wisely. Also the stores around here sell it now, and I fre­quently encounter police staking the place out har­assing customer’s who buy it. Won’t be long until they make this stuff illegal so all those who do smoke it I suggest you stock up on some pure stuff and make your own blends, it will save you a lot of money in the long run and you will know whats in your blend that way, as long as you pur­chase from a good research­chem­icalz company.

  2. msshaw says:

    I find it amazing that you will go to all that trouble to put your­self in a mind altering state. First you might have a “panic attack”, severe head­ache, nervous, shacky, anxious for 20 minutes of being really stoned. Yeah, sounds like a really great time. Why don’t you just figure out what is hurting you so badly inside your head that you would go to all the trouble. And if you don’t want to exper­i­ence all those side effects, you only need to become a phar­macist and , weigh,measure, mix, blah, blah, blah.…sounds to me like people with serious issues. There is a reason that it will soon be illegal. This isn’t marijuana, it’s a man made syn­thetic sub­stance that you have no reason to poisen your­self with. Unless.…you are in trouble with the law, for abusing your­self already with other sub­stances, then you resort to a “blend” that causes such aggrav­a­tion. Seems to me like you might want to use your time finding your­self with healthier choices.

  3. Willie says:

    TO: msshaw, please email me. we can talk off line. I hear what you are saying. I am sure you have read some of my pre­vious posts. Just email me. I am sorry to hear about your son. You have every right to stand up and voice your opinion. None of us knows your pain as a parent of having to deal with a child who ven­tured in unknown chem­ical ter­ritory. Trust me on this one, you won’t win your argu­ment here. However, I respect your courage to voice your opinion in a frank and sincere manner. I am at courther@​bellsouth.​net

  4. J says:

    By the end of 2010 JWH-​​XXX will be schedule 1.

  5. W says:

    x1: I ordered 1g of 18 and 1g of 73. The only thing I couldn’t get is the Everclear 190. It’s not legal in my state, so I can’t get it shipped here either. I bought 151 proof rum. I know you said 150 proof everclear wouldn’t work, but why? Is it impossible to dis­solve the jwh in them or something?

  6. x1 says:

    W:

    No, it’s not impossible to dis­solve JWH in some­thing less than 190 proof…it’s just con­sid­er­ably harder.

    Basic­ally, these can­nabin­oids dis­solve well in alcohol, and don’t dis­solve at all in water. So the further down the chain you get from “pure” alcohol, the harder it is to make the chem­ical dis­solve. As I’ve men­tioned, even close to pure grain alcohol at 190-​​proof, you typ­ic­ally don’t get it to totally dis­solve just by pouring in and mixing…you have to agitate, scrape, mash a bit to get every last grain.

    At 151-​​proof, for starters you’re prob­ably going to need to use a lot of rum (more alcohol will help your chances). If you were thinking of dis­solving all 2g of your material at once, I’d think about using a full 1.75 L jug of rum. And at this point, you’re in the exper­i­mental stage, and I don’t know if it will work for you. I can flat guar­antee unequi­vocal success with 190-​​proof, whereas any­thing less is kind of a crap shoot. You can prob­ably get it to dis­solve if you are willing to expose it to enough alcohol and you are pre­pared to stir and mash the crap out of it.

    At this point someone might say, “why don’t you heat up the rum and it will dis­solve no problem?”

    I’m not advoc­ating that. Heating up liquor in your home can be a little dicey, what the fumes and the fire hazard and so on. AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT THE MICROWAVE. No no no.

    Per­son­ally I’d recom­mend driving to the nearest 190-​​proof friendly state, loading up, and driving back.

  7. x1 says:

    msshaw:

    I don’t know if you can com­pre­hend this, but there are some humans in the world who enjoy a good intox­ic­a­tion every now and then. Humans have been known to enjoy such for thou­sands of years.

    Some of us enjoy the intox­ic­a­tion pro­duced by these par­tic­ular can­nabinoid agents that we are dis­cussing here. Some of us enjoy it con­sid­er­ably more than other intox­ic­ants such as alcohol.

    If you don’t enjoy any such activity or state of being, that’s just peachy, and I wish you a good time to be had in whatever way you enjoy.

    But please don’t super­im­pose the prob­lems in your family onto the rest of the world. There’s a world of people who can enjoy “drugs” of dif­ferent sorts without going off the deep end.

    Perhaps seeking per­sonal coun­seling for your­self, to help manage the frus­tra­tion of your son’s extreme neg­ative exper­i­ence and neg­ative impact on your life, would be more fruitful than venting on a drug blog.

  8. Berny says:

    x1 quotes ” There’s a world of people who can enjoy “drugs” of dif­ferent sorts without going off the deep end.”

    It’s true, but sad are they that can’t keep things on track. There is always someone who can’t drink respons­ibly too. Or they have a fast car and drive fast or impaired.
    It gets ridicu­lous to outlaw everything.

  9. ASM371 says:

    msshaw why are you attacking me? What does it matter if my friend over did his exper­i­ence. People do this everyday, he’s not a habitual user by any means. I really wish you con­ser­vative fucks would stop wasting the people’s time who are here to gain some know­ledge. Sorry your son is a screw up and not capable of con­trolling his own actions but as an adult I must tell you, fuck off. This blog is great and JWH will not be illegal because a few respons­ible adults overdid their exper­i­ence to see how high they could get but by the fact that chil­dren are getting their hands on the blends and pure stuff and acting stupid and making youtube videos. Same thing that happened with salvia.

  10. x1 says:

    That’s what con­ser­vat­ives seem to do these days.

    They talk a big game about freedom and liberty…

    But then they attack you for living how you want to.

    Kind of misses the point of the whole freedom thing.

  11. Voice of reason says:

    I must sadly say that J is right. FDA has their sights set on K2 and the com­pon­ents already. And several doctors are urging them to make K2, Spice and the JWH’s a schedule one class drug. So enjoy it and being able to order it while you can. Damn shame too. A mere gram of the pure stuff can get you baked for several months.

  12. stevo says:

    Can someone help me out here. The new syn­thetic K2 with JWH-​​018 sprayed on it. Is it trace­able in labor­atory test? I smoked it Sunday and had to do a saliva test this morning.

  13. msshaw says:

    Asm.. i wasn’t attacking you per­son­ally, it seems as if you may be exper­i­en­cing some of that para­noia & anxiety you so like to expose your­self too. However, that being said, it seems to me that many of the people(not all) that smoke spice do so because of prior issues that have put them in the pos­i­tion of being drug tested. Hmmm. some­thing to think about.…! Also,if becoming a phar­macutical expert with meas­uring & mixing isn’t going off the deep end to get a pleas­ur­able high.…I don’t know what is. That said.….this will be my last post, I will get off my high horse, let you all enjoy yourselves in whatever means you find neces­sary. I, for the record, do enjoy a good buzz once in awhile, respons­ibly & without risk. Peace out!

  14. x1 says:

    msshaw:

    Phar­ma­ceut­ical expert?

    The meas­uring and mixing dis­cussed in this thread is about as dif­fi­cult and tech­nical as the meas­uring and mixing involved in baking a cake. In fact, it’s less dif­fi­cult. It involves less meas­uring, less cal­cu­la­tion, and less equip­ment and ingredi­ents than cake-​​baking.

    Yes, please come down off your high horse, since you are riding it quite stupidly.

    You…came here…and attacked people who are minding their own busi­ness dis­cussing a common interest in a civil manner. Who’s gone off the deep end? Enjoy your respons­ible buzz, annoying little mosquito!

  15. Doc says:

    lol people let it be go argue about lcd, pcp, meth. These sub­stances are way worse than jwh-​​018 so if this get illeg­al­ized then all your high school daugh­ters and sons will just go down the street and buy weed, cocaine, acid, ext. Then you be visting them in the county jail. The point is why isn’t the gov­ern­ment taking approach on this if its sooooooooo toxic. People saying they are in the hos­pital. LOl give me a fuckin break scary high maybe. Dum­basses taking to high of a dose for the first time. Every person that has gone to the hos­pital were 100% fine. If you think that it so toxic then why hasn’t there been deaths. Since jwh-​​018 has been out since 1995 and there are still no cases on this prdouct of anyone dieing.

  16. J says:

    Doc, you have some good points and bad points. Death is very pos­sible. The right scen­ario just hasn’t happened, and I pray it doesn’t. Think about someone using this stuff while oper­ating heavy machinery or while driving on the highway!

    JWH works with the liver in a way that can cause the skin and eyes to turn yellow. JWH increases the heart rate to a point that can give someone with high blood pres­sure a heart attack.

    I think that there should be a JWH-​​XXX chem that is a 1 to 1 ratio with thc. At least this way, less people are likely to OD on the stuff. People will do it regard­less, but at least it want be so much of a hazard.

    Another thing. Everyone that is using spice, K2, puff and all the rest are putting their life in the hands of the com­panies that make the stuff. That thought alone puts chills down my spine.

    Everyone is so greedy to make money, its sad but true.

    Anyway, I would like to see an mri cat scan of a person who has smoked spice for years and compare their brain with someone who never smoked spice to see if their is any dif­fer­ence in structure.

  17. Tim says:

    Without a doubt, total abstin­ence is “the way to go” to main­tain optimum health and all… but given the nature of people wanting to get buzzed –

    I’d rather see them use micro­grams of JWH-​​018 every few days than The Chronic a few times a day. It costs less, involves way fewer lung­fulls of smoke, is legal, doesn’t con­tribute to violent “drug trade” untaxed com­merce, etc etc.

    CAN it leas to death/​addictions/​financial ruin? I suppose it can, sure… but toxic as it may or may not be at least we’re not clog­ging up up the jails and ER’s around the country with people who have to commit crim­inal acts to use it. That’s gotta count for something!!

  18. ernie says:

    yes, i have to admit that jwh-​​018 is a dirty high. i’ve had many incenses that contain it and i have to be very careful when i smoke it. i’ve had many panic attacks if i overdo it. which isn’t much. an extra puff. feels dirty and toxic. a cheap, yet expensive high. i’m sticking to the real thing.

  19. ernie says:

    just to let you know i’ve been with mj for 25 years and this stuff is def­in­itely dif­ferent. i can under­stand exactly why someone would smoke this. usually because of urine tests or mj scarcity. but it won’t be legal long. i mean the first time i smoked it, i was like HOLY FUCK! HOW IN THE FUCK CAN THIS BE LEGAL? but to each his own. here, there’s an over­abund­ance of the real thing-​​dirt cheap to.

  20. Berny says:

    Bron­chitis is still bad and I every time I cough for 2– 3 seconds I almost black out and have a mini seizure. I don’t know if the chem­ical has thwarted recovery somehow but it feels so.
    To get better it’s been over 48 hours without any smoking JWH. And, I am still feeling the weirdest i have in my whole life. I pray it’s just all the sinus pres­sure and hard coughing robbing me of needed Oxygen but I can’t be sure until I heal up.

  21. J says:

    Berny, I will pray for you that you get better. Was it pure JWH or a herbal blend like spice gold, etc? Either way, you never know if its pure or impure. That’s why I recom­mend not doing it. Essen­tially, you are putting your life into someones hands every time you do it. Everyone here needs to ask them­selves. How valu­able is my life? How valu­able is my brain and having a clear mind.

    Berny and anyone else who doesn’t feel good. I would recom­mend doing a full detox. Stay away from fatty foods. See a doctor and tell them what you messed around with and let them know you don’t feel right. Berny, if you are really con­cerned, get an MRI of your head, and get a chest x-​​ray. Also drink alot of water. :-)

    Good Luck

  22. x1 says:

    J:

    This is a JWH tox­ic­o­logy thread, not a Nancy Reagan Just Say No thread.

    You are talking some serious bull­shit, and I’m calling you on it. From the moment you entered this thread, many posts ago, you had nothing but neg­ative things to say about JWH, many of which are fac­tu­ally inaccurate.

    Since this is a JWH tox­ic­o­logy thread, here is your chance to sub­stan­tiate the record, and prove your­self, instead of con­stantly talking out of your ass.

    Here is one of your dumb comments:

    JWH works with the liver in a way that can cause the skin and eyes to turn yellow.”

    Prove it. Don’t just say it. How is it received and pro­cessed by the liver? How does it cause skin and eyes to turn yellow? How come my liver is fine, and my skin and eyes haven’t turned yellow? You are just talking out of your dumb ass.

    Here is another dumb comment:

    JWH increases the heart rate to a point that can give someone with high blood pres­sure a heart attack.”

    Prove it.

    How many people have had heart attacks on JWH? Out of the thou­sands, prob­ably tens of thou­sands, maybe hun­dreds of thousands.…maybe even a million or more people who have done JWH or smoked Spice…

    …how many have had heart attacks? I’m sure at least some of those people had high blood pres­sure. Why haven’t any of them had heart attacks?

    Can you please use facts, evid­ence, proof, etc…?

    …Instead of just pulling hot steaming bull­shit out of your asshole? Stop the base­less fear-​​mongering. All the empir­ical evid­ence, amassed from count­less details of count­less people con­suming this stuff, amounts to zero heart attacks, zero deaths, and zero meas­ur­able chronic, per­manent physiolo­gical damage. That’s dif­ferent from psychological…where people might believe JWH fucked them up, even if they have no medical proof.

    What you do have, so far, is a long, LONG list of stupid people, using a very potent clinical-​​grade chem­ical in a very stupid, casual way, without serious regard for precise dosage and reac­tion sens­it­ivity. Nat­ur­ally, because of such stu­pidity, you have some bad times, and I see many many people blaming the chem­ical for their own retarded antics.

    This is why it’s so important, for those of us who under­stand and respect these sorts of chem­icals in general, and who don’t see global pro­hib­i­tion as inev­it­able, to try to put a stop to two things:

    1. Care­less use that leads to extremely neg­ative exper­i­ences and bad word of mouth.

    2. Care­less, base­less fear-​​mongering where people make up lies and gen­erate bad word of mouth for no clear reason.

    J, you fall under #2. Maybe your inten­tions are good.…or maybe you have some other motive that causes you to make over­blown or inac­curate com­ments to try to scare people. In any case, if you are going to make a SCARY claim about a JWH health risk, espe­cially in a tox­ic­o­logy thread, you better damn well back it up with hard evid­ence. Oth­er­wise you’re just a part of the problem…yet more dis­in­form­a­tion and bull­shit pro­pa­ganda on the hys­teria express.

    You told a guy up there to “stay away from fatty foods”, to help him recover from a bad JWH exper­i­ence. I’m guessing you’re no doctor. Guess what, folks? It’s OK to eat some cake and ice cream, or whatever else you like, after having a little too much JWH. J doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, and such pseudo-​​doctor babble isn’t productive.

    If you want some good advice, here’s some:

    1. Do not even bother with JWH at all if you are a blithering idiot.

    2. Don’t bother smoking JWH if you don’t have a way to pre­cisely measure the sub­stance at the single mil­li­gram level.

    3. Don’t bother smoking JWH if you don’t have the patience to wait 15 minutes after a toke to gauge the effect.

    4. Con­sider avoiding smoking JWH alto­gether by using the bul­let­proof 190-​​proof Everclear method.

    5. AVOID ALL BLENDS. Buy only the pure research chem­ical, and reg­u­late yourself.

    6. Don’t believe any bull­shit about heart attacks, deaths, or any other VERY BAD THINGS coming from JWH without serious evid­ence. There are many, many things in this world that elevate your heart rate. Some of those things include music, caf­feine, and sex. Based on the EVID­ENCE we have so far, it seems you are just about as likely to have a heart attack on JWH…as you are to have a heart attack while sipping coffee…or fucking.

    If you decide to be stupid and care­less anyway, and fail to pre­cisely measure, and fail to be dis­cip­lined and patient, and treat JWH like a fucking dirty street drug, be ready to have a panic attack.

    Just don’t forget…a panic attack is not a heart attack. Even if it’s a really bad, scary panic attack, there’s vir­tu­ally zero like­li­hood you will actu­ally damage your heart. A phys­ical and a review of your vital signs will confirm this. So think about that before you run to the nearest internet forum and make a silly post about how scary and dan­gerous and unhealthy and evil JWH is.

    The chem­ical itself seems to be fairly benign and harm­less. It passes easily through the system, and lights up the reefer-​​loving part of the brain with remark­able efficiency.

    Unfor­tu­nately, the motley gang of wayward, logic-​​challenged humans who keep jacking them­selves on this chem­ical in care­less ways, or who keep dis­par­aging the chem­ical with thought­less anti-​​facts, are going to ruin the party for those who actu­ally have some sense.

  23. crispy says:

    Snipped abstract of a recent group of studies… just spreading some know­ledge to RCers. While JWH-​​018 appears to be per­fectly safe short term, it is likely extremely dan­gerous in the long run. Doubt many people bother using more than once or twice a week anyway, but daily users might want to cut back a bit until more research is done and published.

    “Studies on the meta­bolism of JWH-​​018 and of a homo­logue of CP 47,497, phar­ma­co­lo­gic­ally active ingredi­ents
    of dif­ferent misused incense (“Spice”) using GC-​​MS and LC-​​MSn techniques

    T. Kraemer, K.Y. Rust, M.R. Meyer, D.K. Wis­sen­bach, D. Bregel,
    M. Hopf, H.H. Maurer, J. Wilske

    (Insti­tute of Legal Medi­cine, Saar­land Uni­ver­sity, 66421 Homburg,
    Germany; Exper­i­mental and Clin­ical Tox­ic­o­logy, Uni­ver­sity of Saar­land,
    66421 Homburg, Germany)

    Intro­duc­tion: In the last few months, a new drug has conquered the can­nabis market: dif­ferent types of incenses (trade names “Spice”, “Smoke”, “Sence” and others) have widely been misused by smoking these blends of herbs. Recently, arti­fi­cial endocan­nabinoid receptor agon­ists (JWH-​​018 and a homo­logue of CP 47, 497) have been found to be the phar­ma­co­lo­gic­ally active prin­ciples in these blends. Unfor­tu­nately, little is known about these substances.

    Aim: The aim of this study was to elu­cidate the meta­bolism of JWH-​​018 and of a homo­logue of CP 47,497 (CP47).

    Methods: Eth­an­olic extracts were pre­pared from incenses con­taining JWH-​​018 and CP47, respect­ively. After removal of the ethanol the residues were given to Wistar rats by gastric intub­a­tion and urine was col­lected over 24 hours. For iden­ti­fic­a­tion, the meta­bol­ites were isol­ated after enzymatic or acidic cleavage of con­jug­ates by liquid-​​liquid extrac­tion (LLE) or solid­phase extrac­tion (C18 ) fol­lowed by acet­yla­tion and GC-​​MS ana­lysis. For LC-​​MS the unde­r­iv­at­ized extracts were used. Meta­bol­ites were iden­ti­fied by inter­pret­a­tion of the EI mass spectra (GC-​​MS) and enhanced product ion (EPI) scan mass spectra (LC-​​MS). MS3 exper­i­ments allowed dif­fer­en­ti­ation of iso­meric metabolites.

    Results: The parent com­pounds JWH-​​018 and CP47 could be found in the urine extracts. For JWH-​​018, the N-​​dealkyl meta­bolite could be detected as well as the hydroxylated meta­bolite. The highest signals could be observed for the hydroxylated N-​​dealkyl meta­bol­ites. Hydroxyla­tion took place in the side chain and in both aro­matic systems, the naph­thalene and the indol part, which could be shown by mass shift of the cor­res­ponding frag­ments and by MS3 exper­i­ments. For CP47, several hydroxylated meta­bol­ites could be iden­ti­fied. Aliphatic hydroxyl groups could be dif­fer­en­ti­ated from aro­matic hydroxyl groups by dif­ferent frag­ment­a­tion pat­terns (loss of water/​acetic acid for aliphatic hydroxyl groups).

    Con­clu­sion: JWH-​​018 and CP 47 are extens­ively meta­bol­ized in rats. According to our exper­i­ence similar meta­bolic pat­terns can be expected in humans. There­fore, screening pro­ced­ures for these drugs in urine should include not only the parent com­pound but also the cor­res­ponding metabolites.”

  24. Willie says:

    Hey crispy, I appre­ciate you sharing the research study. It appears that author­ities will soon include these can­nabin­oids in their offi­cial drug screening tests since they know how to detect it in the lab. Kinda of makes you want to go back to the real MJ if this becomes the case.

    Hey x1, what say ye to this report. The researchers con­cluded that the can­nabin­oids extens­ively meta­bol­ized in rats in which they logic­ally assumed that the same thing is hap­pening with humans. So x1 is this a good or bad thing? It seems to me that it does not stay in the body for long periods and the body is able to process and get rid of them quickly through urine and fece. Its like this research study’s goal was not to determine the safety of the chem­icals but how to detect it in drug screening analysis.

    It seems like the study inad­vert­ently pro­moted the safety of the chem­icals by proving how it pro­cesses (meta­bol­izes) so quickly through the human body thus causing less harm. The research did not address the issue of long term use and effects.

  25. x1 says:

    Willie:

    I agree with you. Your state­ment “the research did not address the issue of long term use and effects” is spot on.

    The inform­a­tion crispy posted appears to confirm exactly what the anonymous tox­ic­o­logy assays at the top of this thread suggest.…that JWH moves quickly through an animal’s system.

    That’s all.

    So… then.…

    I have to ask.…

    crispy…

    Regarding your strange comment:

    “While JWH-​​018 appears to be per­fectly safe short term, it is likely extremely dan­gerous in the long run.”

    Please explain why JWH is “likely extremely dan­gerous in the long run”. This seems unne­ces­sarily hyper­bolic, and totally unsub­stan­ti­ated based on what we cur­rently know about the chemical.

    I can under­stand com­ments to the effect that we “don’t know enough yet”…or “don’t have enough information”.…because we cer­tainly don’t know any­thing about long term effects of these chem­icals. Because, of course, they are too new.…not enough time has elapsed in the world.

    But when you say “likely extremely dan­gerous,” this implies you have obtained some con­crete know­ledge about some facet of the chem­ical that increases the prob­ab­ility that it is actu­ally phys­ic­ally harmful.

    And I would like to know what spe­cific, con­crete know­ledge you are ref­er­en­cing that makes JWH “likely extremely dan­gerous in the long run”.

    Because from where I’m sitting, that comment doesn’t make sense given the info you just provided. Rather, it just sounds like unhelpful scare-​​mongering based on some­thing other than actual facts.

    Thanks.

  26. Berny says:

    Well, I have abstained from smoking spice and jwh for 4 days and my bron­chitis is finally easing up. I am sure if I smoked cigar­ettes it would be the same by leaving them for a few days.
    I enjoy getting a buzz on so I guess I’m just an old stoner, lol.
    I do believe that smoking JWH slows down my res­pir­atory system and the smoke irrit­ates the cilia actu­ally helping the virus to flu­orish.
    I bet the first tiem I smoke I’m going to be very buzzed.

  27. J says:

    Many people are using acetone to make their spice blends. Check the health adverse effects if someone inhales a heavy amount of acetone! The effects sound similar to smoking a spice blend!

    Health effects

    ” After inhaling acetone fumes or ingesting acetone, it enters the blood, which then carries it to all the organs in the body. If it is a small amount, the liver breaks it down to chem­icals that are not harmful and uses these chem­icals to make energy for normal body func­tions. Breathing mod­erate– to-​​high levels of acetone for short periods of time, however, can cause nose, throat, lung, and eye irrit­a­tion; head­aches; light-​​headedness; con­fu­sion; increased pulse rate; effects on blood; nausea; vomiting; uncon­scious­ness and pos­sibly coma; and short­ening of the men­strual cycle in women. ”

    Many of the symp­toms listed above occur when people smoke JWH-​​018. So if you add 2+2 together you know that your suf­fering the effects of the acetone, when you smoke this stuff. Not a good thing!

    http://​www​.worl​dof​molecules​.com/​s​o​l​v​e​n​t​s​/​a​c​e​t​o​n​e​.​htm

    Think twice before you smoke!

  28. x1 says:

    J:

    NO. When you say “Many of the symp­toms listed above occur when people smoke JWH-​​018″, you are being impre­cise and distortionary.

    If people are smoking BLENDS that contain other crap in them besides JWH, they may exper­i­ence some of the listed symptoms.

    But that’s not JWH.

    So stop saying it’s JWH, idiot.

    You need to make the intel­lec­tual dis­tinc­tion between JWH, on its own.…and all these dif­ferent BLENDS which have all sorts of god knows what goop in them.

    Please make that dis­tinc­tion. Can you do that? Can you try and squeeze your tiny brain real hard and make that dis­tinc­tion, and stop blaming the raw JWH chem­ical for the effects caused by other agents?

    If you want to pros­elytize about the warn­ings of ACETONE, or the junk chem­icals found in BLENDS, then by all means, please do so.

    BUT STOP SAYING IT’S JWH, because that’s total bull­shit and you are talking out of your ass.

    Having just dis­coursed upon the dan­gerous effects of ACETONE, wouldn’t it make sense for you to tell people to AVOID BLENDS?

    But instead, you seem to be con­stantly telling people that JWH itself is dan­gerous, and to avoid JWH because it causes this and that. And those are stupid lies.

    I don’t know.…maybe you are too stupid to make the con­sistent dis­tinc­tion between JWH…by itself.…and those dirty BLENDS out there that might have JWH as one of their com­ponent chemicals.

    If you feel called by God to warn people about ACETONE…maybe you should stop refer­ring to it as JWH, or con­fusing it with JWH. You said JWH fucks up the liver and makes skin and eyes yellow. FALSE. LIE. BULL­SHIT. You said JWH makes some people more prone to heart attacks. LIE. BULL­SHIT. NO EVID­ENCE. NO HEART ATTACKS.

    So after all this, you don’t have any actual hard evid­ence that JWH is harmful at all.….only that ACETONE is. Which every­body already knew.

    Gee! News­flash! Acetone is bad for you! Don’t ingest it or bad shit will happen!

    But hey! Why don’t we just blame all that nasty shit on JWH?! Great idea J!!!!!!! Dolt.

  29. Tim says:

    I don’t mind ignorant people. Or know-it-all’s. Both can be taught. In regards to the past couple mes­sages here…

    I can see both sides, and have to simply add these two cents — yes, JWH-​​018 is a DRUG. Doing too much of it isn’t good. Trying it once or twice to see what you think about it prob­ably won’t kill you, but making a well-​​researched decision is a must.

    Keep dis­cus­sion — not cussin’ — going, please! I’m no prude but just think it’s easier on the eyes when folks work at making their points here by using common sense and cour­tesy, eh?

  30. Fedete says:

    Why you have to be so rude X1??? Some­times it seems that you have some­kind of eco­nom­ical interest in this substance..why you call an idiot or an asshole to anyone who dis­agree with your coments regarding to JWH 018? Besides I hope that JWH series chem­icals dont be any harm to human body, because to much people have used them since 2008 (in spice alikes blends or in pure form) and it would very sad if there be nasty long term side effects…It seems that everyone is worried about the posible car­ci­no­genity of these com­pounds, but thats not the only nasty side effect it ”COULD” bring, for example…it could affect your liver, heart, brain, etc…no one knows. Im not saying that people shouldnt do this or that…if someone feels that should do heroin cocaine can­nabis lsd mush­rooms or even jwh its up to them, but PLEASE BE SAFE MAKE TAKE SOME HARM REDUC­TION MES­SURES FIRST. (AKA AT LEAST USEWEIGHT SCALE). Peace.

  31. x1 says:

    Fedete, should I be civil to someone who spreads out­right falsehoods?

    Should I reason with the liar patiently, and wait on him to stop lying, trusting in good faith that he will come around?

    Go back and read through the history of these com­ments. You will see that I only started getting ser­i­ously “rude” with the poster “J” once he kept on drop­ping unfor­tu­nate and unhelpful lies.

    The “JWH turns your skin and eyes yellow” crap is just one of several bel­li­ger­ently stupid examples from that poster.

    If the idiot asshole wants to try sticking to facts, instead of stoking need­less fear and hysteria.…then you can bet I will stop thinking of him as an idiot asshole, and will defer back to the civility and good graces suit­able for fact-​​based discussion.

    In the mean­time, do you doubt my obser­va­tions about these lies? Can you or “J” or anyone else provide con­crete data showing legit­imate, serious physiolo­gical damage from the sub­stance we are dis­cussing here?

    If you cannot, then I hope you will agree with me that the fear-​​mongering of posters like “J” is indeed idiotic, and the poster is an idiot, and should be treated as such.

    As for my own motives…I regret your insinu­ation that I have some­thing to gain eco­nom­ic­ally from defending the chem­ical. I have in this thread offered a means of con­suming the chem­ical that is much more safe and reli­able than the common (and silly) method of smoking the stuff. I have made ample warn­ings about dosage and mod­er­a­tion, and I have even dis­cussed, dis­creetly, two dif­ferent vendors of the pure chem­ical, one US-​​based, and one foreign to the US…and I am affil­i­ated with neither. Don’t you think that if I were in the JWH “busi­ness” I would have ref­er­enced only a single vendor, or tried to send people to an actual link, or in some overt way actu­ally tried to drum up serious busi­ness for myself, the RC industry, and JWH in particular?

    But I haven’t done that, have I? Do you think that if I had an eco­nom­ical interest in this chem­ical, I would be bashing blends, and telling people NOT to smoke it? Come on…get serious.

    Now then, if you are going to take me to task for being “rude” drop­ping f-​​bombs on liars and calling them idiot assholes.…well, how about being fair? How about some cri­ti­cism also for the ones spewing anti-​​factual bull­shit? Isn’t that a reas­on­able request?

  32. J says:

    Does anyone know any­thing about JWH-​​200? It appears that it works like Jwh-​​018 but more on the CB1?

    JWH 200 is an aminoal­kylindole that acts as a can­nabinoid (CB) receptor ligand. It binds to the CB1 receptor with high-​​affinity (IC50 = 7.8−42 nM).1,2 The effects of JWH 200 in loco­motor activity, tail-​​flick latency, hypo­thermia, and ring-​​immobility tests are com­par­able or superior to Δ9-​​THC or WIN-55,212.3 It potently inhibits the con­trac­tion of electrically-​​stimulated murine vas deferens (IC50 = 3.7−6.0 nM).4,5
    1 Eis­sen­stat, M.A., Bell, M.R., D’Ambra, T.E., et al. Aminoal­kylindoles: Structure-​​activity rela­tion­ships of novel can­nabinoid mimetics. J Med Chem 38 3094 – 3105 (1995).
    2 Huffman, J.W., Mabon, R., Wu, M., et al. 3-​​indolyl-​​1-​​naphthylmethanes: New can­nabi­mi­metic indoles provide evid­ence for aro­matic stacking inter­ac­tions with the CB1 can­nabinoid receptor. Bioorg Med Chem 11 539 – 549 (2003).
    3 Compton, D.R., Gold, L.H., Ward, S.J., et al. Aminoal­kylindole analogs: Can­nabi­mi­metic activity of a class of com­pounds struc­tur­ally dis­tinct from D9-​​tetrahydrocannabinol. J Phar­macol Exp Ther 263(3) 1118 – 1126 (1992).
    4 Pacheco, M., Childers, S.R., Arnold, R., et al. Aminoal­kylindoles: Actions on spe­cific G-​​protein-​​linked receptors. J Phar­macol Exp Ther 257(1) 170 – 183 (1991).
    5 Bell, M.R., D’Ambra, T.E., Kumar, V., et al. Anti­no­ciceptive (aminoalkyl) indoles. J Med Chem 34 1099 – 1110 (1991).

  33. n says:

    I agree with X1, no one should state what they THINK are facts until they KNOW and have PROOF. Need­less hys­teria and wor­rying among those who were/​are using what has until recently been thought to be harm­less is not needed until there is hard evid­ence proving these ail­ments. I know a friend of a friend that has used the sketchy “blends” fre­quently for nearly 2 years and has had no adverse symp­toms unless com­bined with high amounts of alcohol which I would believe to be expected. Even after nearly a month of ces­sa­tion after a year and a half of use had no with­drawal symp­toms, even when it was com­bined with alcohol ces­sa­tion after about 5 years of very fre­quent drinking. Even though this is only one case, I’ve dis­cussed the issue with dozens of fre­quent users, none reporting any issues. Lets stick to the facts and figure this out.

  34. Josephus says:

    Ok im tech­nic­ally on pro­ba­tion… Its unsu­per­vised but if for some odd reason i get drug tested i dont to fail and have to go back to fuckin jail.(excuse my lan­guage) So a good 5 months back i had to make a transfer over to serenity now, which con­tains that chem­ical thats being dis­cussed… So far i have come to see that yes it does take more to get u high after the first time and the high doesnt last that long… But me and my frieds for the past 2 months have not missed a day of smokin and some­times i will admit that we did go over board and we had smoked a good 6 to 8 blunts a day… But thats not the point the point is that i do kno of some side effects that serenity does leave behind(but for some reason not in me) my friends have actu­ally started to get migrains and one of my friends has actu­ally started to have a really bad breathing problem when he smoked this… Also the scar­iest part about this stuff is that where i live in the same county some one has died and the coroner had pub­licly announced that this cats death was due to serenity IE cardiac arrest… Granted im sure that this guy had many prob­lems with his heart n serenity may have pushed him over that line between life and death but the fact of the matter is that those same prob­lems that my friends have started to have are the same prob­lems leading up to this mans death… Again im not sure that it was fully serenity but it could have had a good part in it… Also serenity is a aro­matic incense right? Well its also a natural pesti­cide… I can tell u from per­sonal experience(cause we have moved 3 dif­ferent times since we started smokin this) that it is like a pesti­cide thatll get u high… Anyone who smokes this should take notice that they dont have any bugs in that spefic room they smoke in… And spiders dont count… But i just real­ized that and wanted to throw that out there… But i need to kno if serenity can be a cause of death or if its a stupid cor­oners fic­tious thinking thats scaring the crap outta my friends…

  35. Willie says:

    Often­times, I have learned that when issues arise regarding what is the mission or purpose that is behind driving a man, woman, organ­iz­a­tion, busi­ness, or gov­ern­ment to act we have to look deep at the object­ives, goals, and expected end results. There are many examples around us like the Iraq war, the con­flict in Afgh­anistan, health­care reform, arms treaty with Russia, etc. In other words, what is the root cause/​effect that is driving us to do what we do? When there is no legit­imate reason or logic for our actions then con­flict arises as to intended purposes.

    The ques­tion is now put before this thread entitled “JWH-​​18 Tox­ic­o­logy.” What is the objectives/​goals of this dis­cus­sion thread? What is our mission? The objectives/​goals from my view­point as a par­ti­cipant is: 1.) To provide sci­entific related doc­u­ment­a­tion regarding the current and future research of syn­thetic can­nabin­oids as it relates to tox­ic­o­logy and safety involving human beings. 2.) To share and doc­u­ment real case scen­arios as it relates to tox­ic­o­logy effects on human beings and 3.) To share lessons learned and best prac­tices regarding the safety and use of the syn­thetic can­nabin­oids to reduce and or elim­inate tox­ic­o­lo­gical risks on human beings.

    These three object­ives and goals is what I see as our mission state­ment. I don’t think it is designed around myth busting where unsub­stan­ti­ated and unre­li­able inform­a­tion is placed on the thread and someone has to prove that it is incor­rect. That’s not in our mission state­ment. What say ye?

  36. Berny says:

    I have smoked my last today. I still have bron­chitis but it’s getting better.
    The bad news is I have pro­state cancer. Either radi­ation or surgery, don’t know yet! But the thing that I want to say is that I am going to go ultra healthy and put the best fight on I can muster. No smoking, no high fats, veggies and fruit will be aplenty.
    I pray I can make it through and live many more years.

  37. x1 says:

    n:
    Thank you! Common sense comes to town!

    A big big problem I see is that people take an exper­i­ence they have with some murky blend product (like Spice or Serenity Now) and extra­polate a pseudo-​​scientific con­clu­sion about the harm­ful­ness of JWH from it.….when of course JWH, if con­tained in the blend at all, is often one of MANY many con­stitu­ents in that blend. Most of the blend products only give a partial list of ingredi­ents, often using cover lan­guage like “…and other botan­ical extracts”. For all you know, any pur­chased blend you smoke could have been sprayed with pesti­cide, sprinkled with rat poison, or pissed on. God knows what is in that shit.

    Take the com­ments of Josephus. He is talking about Serenity Now. How can any of the things men­tioned, migraines or any­thing else, be attrib­uted to JWH, when the blend con­tains several con­stitu­ents, some of them unknown? It is impossible to draw an empir­ical straight line from this or that malady back to any par­tic­ular ingredient of the blend. Nat­ur­ally, JWH gets scape­goated without any real proof or helpful inform­a­tion. It’s just hearsay.

    Willie:
    Do you really think any of your three pro­posed object­ives (which I do think are noble and good ideas) can be met without ardent myth-​​busting and debunking? I don’t see how we can have any reli­able repos­itory of JWH inform­a­tion if such con­stant base­less claims as we have seen here aren’t imme­di­ately and vig­or­ously rooted out and chal­lenged. Isn’t that how good science works? By taking a skep­tical pos­i­tion as the default, and forcing people to justify their claims with some­thing other than emo­tional rhetoric?

    But I agree that nobody here has to prove that any­thing is INCOR­RECT. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Like, when someone says that ingesting a par­tic­ular chem­ical causes yel­lowing of skin and eyes, or increases heart attack risk…the burden of proof is on that person to justify that claim with some­thing other than their own inner logic. External hard evid­ence is needed. And if not provided, the person making the base­less claim should be cas­tig­ated and run out of town.

  38. javaman says:

    Alright, I have read everything… I’ve studied all the responses… & I still smoke a blend. (From the “spice family”) Nothing better for me. It’s a cleaner high. I don’t feel “groggy” or “des­troyed”, just won­der­fully and happily high… but, I can still work and func­tion JUST fine. I think it’s bril­liant. I DO have a serious ques­tion tho… I live in Kansas. Most dis­trib­utors won’t even ship here. We have a couple retail stores that REALLY DEPEND on the revenue from selling the “pot­pourri blend” (500mg packets) Now, Kansas has made it illegal. I SER­I­OUSLY need a legal altern­ative in this state. DOES ANYONE have a legal altern­ative out there?
    I don’t care if it’s JWH-019,398 & 250 mixed together… is there a recipe that will pass for Kansas, Ohio, Georgia and other states joining the band­wagon. I agree that it is redicu­lous to outlaw it… but, whatever. But, I SER­I­OUSLY NEED a viable altern­ative in this economy. Please, you all sound pretty smart on this site and “up-​​to-​​speed” through your endevors at research… PLEASE tell me that there is some­thing that I can sub­sti­tute for the –018 & 073 and still get the same basic results (shy of weed…) it’s GOT to be able to beat the tests for HU-​​210, JWH-​​018, JWH-​​073, BZP and TFMPP… those are the par­tic­ular ones that they have out­lawed in this state. Please gimme some info fellas, I really CAN’T afford to loose my store… the economy in this central Kansas town has REALLY tanked. I’m not joking at all. My wife and I have eight ten-​​age kids between us and ALOT of fin­an­cial respon­i­sil­ities… this is really important to me… I need some solid advice on this (and NOT about having too many kids, or “…boo-​​hoo, you shouldn’t have opened a store in this economy”…) agreed… but, what’s done is done. Just please fellas… any insight to a truely good recipe that’ll pass through Kansas law? I just need a little help from some know­ledgable folks. I’m beggin ya’all.

  39. munytalks says:

    yes im very inter­ested in learning about the spray that is being used.

  40. jox says:

    OK, i need the honest honest answer, can u pass a pro­ba­tion drug test? yes or no?

  41. Collin says:

    I’ve been smoking jwh 018 blends for a while now and i love it. finally some­thing i can enjoy and not have to stress bout gettin in trouble for weed anymore. my favorite brand is serenity now straw­berry. im making a homemade batch soon now that i know how they do it. berys imple actu­ally. but anyways i dont think u can OD on it but li have smoked a lil more than i could handle of this stuff. like the other day i smoked about 4 to 5 bowls to myslef of this shit with some freinds and i just got really naus­i­ated and threw up a bit. just like when u burn way tooo much weed. not too bad, its all good now ;] just remember a lil bit of this stuff goes a long way

  42. Jenifer says:

    I found out about Serenity Now about 2 weeks ago. I occas­sionaly smoked pot (about 1 to 2 times per every 3 to 4 months). Here is my reac­tion:
    I smoked it in joint form with a friend and mis­takenly treated it like pot. After twitching and flip­ping out for about 30 minutes, the high occur­ring in stages, I real­ized that I had smoked way too much. For me, the high was imme­diate. So, the next time I smoked the Serenity Now mixture, I smoked it again rolled but only took 3 hits. This was just a bit more than I really needed. So, the next time I took 2 hits… still a little too high but just about right. My boy­friend, however, had never been high in his life. He smoked with me and after about 10 minutes he was saying that he didn’t feel any­thing. He insisted he didn’t smoke it right. So, regard­less of how much I tried to assure him that he would feel it, he smoked another half a joint. Then, he was swim­ming. Lit­er­ally swim­ming because he thought he was under the ocean and he was going to drown. So, yes, he had a bad trip and got a bit retarded. He was high for about 4 hours. All of this said, I still feel a little high today, like reality is kind of hazy. This is all prob­ably a result of the mixture.
    I do not know about anyone else, but I will give this a few more tries. One mixture stated that catnip was in it… how does catnip effect/​affect humans?
    I will also be drug tested soon for volun­teer work (I am a PhD Student working with a local psy­chi­atric center)… I will let you guys hon­estly know if I pass. They have to do a full back­ground test and blood/​piss test. Stay tuned.

  43. JOSEPH says:

    Well i m happy to see this dis­cus­sion alive and inform­ative. I myself have been researching this a lot and cant find any con­clusive evid­ence to suggest people are getting sick or dying from it. I feel there are so many vari­ables that one cant come to any real con­clu­sion as of yet. these herb blends seem to be a major vari­able because for all we know one could be allergic to the ingredi­ents like someone is to peanuts. I dis­tribute a very reli­able blend and it is only 2 ingredi­ents the JWH and a plant source very known and very reli­able. Ive yet to see anyone who is not on any med­ic­a­tions or taking other drugs become ill or have any real prob­lems. Now i have found some who have issues with the said plant source but clearly that will happen with any natural sub­stance. some are allergic to some things and some are not. with that being said we give full dis­closure on our products so our cus­tomers can research the source and come to their own decisions. each blend is per­fectly bal­anced and you know when you buy from me its the best quality product. I will not give inform­a­tion in a thread as i only dis­tribute to retail estab­lish­ments. I do not sell to people on a single basis. we are now going to be dis­trib­uting to a wide area of small busi­nesses and will inform you when our products have hit enough areas. keep this thread alive and I will inform if any new facts arise.

    thanks to all of you for the great info. enjoy your fun but please be smart about it. if you are on any med­ic­a­tions do not mix and if you have aller­gies to any plant source be careful. any one with heart prob­lems or lung prob­lems like asthma do not use this stuff till more research id done.

  44. jim says:

    well joseph, I think you are right about people with health prob­lems should leave j8 alone untill there is more inform­a­tion about he long term effects of it, but per­son­ally I have enjoyed it along with my wife for about a year now.we are in our middle fifties and we both are on dis­ab­ility, I have had two heart atacks and am bipolar and also have copd and asthma, my wife has asthma mod­erate emphesema and clin­ical depres­sion along with spinal sten­osis, I take 14 pills in the morning and 12 a night, my wife takes about half that many, for us it is too risky to fail a drug test. I have had a couple of exper­i­ences that were unpleasant for a while , ya know like maybe I shouldn‘t have did that last bowl, but the only serious problem I have had .…..and maybe it wasn‘t the j8 my doctor said I had too many enzymes in my liver, I haven‘t used j8 in 3 days and I go for blood work tuesday, if the results show a lesser amount of enzymes I would con­clude that the j8 was the culprit, also it is my opinion that anyone using j8 should make their own and use 190 grain alcohol, acetone scares me, it really sucks that the gov­ern­ment has been so stupid in the past about leg­al­ities about such sub­stances and maybe some day what GOD gave us will be legal as i t damn well should be, to be honest with anybody reading this I wish I had never heard about it {j8} PEACE

  45. jim says:

    by the way so as not to confuse anybody the heart atacks I suffered were 9 yrs ago PEACE

  46. j3w says:

    say i have 3.5 grams of jwh-​​018, how much herbal sub­strate would i need for that amount? also do i just dilute the jwh in pure acetone and spray and mix herbal sub­strate until solu­tion is gone and then just wait till it com­pletely dries? I want to make it like k2 summit.

  47. JOSEPH says:

    Thanks Jim for the in depth inform­a­tion on your con­di­tions. This helps when dealing with med­ic­ated people. If you have been exper­i­en­cing JWH for a year and have enjoyed it with no prob­lems thats a really good sign. If you dont mind me asking could you fill me in on the spe­cific meds you are taking after you get your liver results back? That inform­a­tion can really shed some light on what can mix with JWH and what may poten­tially not mix.

  48. jim says:

    I will tomrrow, best regards, jim

  49. Tim says:

    I don’t imagine anyone on EITHER side of the JWH-​​018 Tox­icity Issue will be coming out saying that the stuff is GOOD for you.

    So maybe the basic ques­tion here should stay focused on HOW BAD IS IT, to what degree, in what amounts, and in what way(s)?

    Too much of ANY­THING is bad or unhealthy or toxic… and addic­tion is an ugly word… but in my way of doing things it seems that mod­erate (a couple/​few times a week) use of JWH-​​018 isn’t exactly KILLING me, as far as I can tell. Is it bad/​toxic/​unhealthy for me to take 2 or 3 hits of it a week? Maybe… but is it worth taking that chance? I think it is.

    I KNOW what it was like using weed on a multi-​​daily basis for a few decades and how doing that affected me, and I’m happy to have quit doing that — TOTALLY. Nowdays, taking a few hits of my own per­sonal JWH blend a week gets me by just fine… as well as being cheaper, legal, and overall less toxic as far as I can tell. Is it a sub­sti­tute for weed? I don’t think so. It’s just what it is… good and/​or bad for me as it may be!

  50. Cliff says:

    The molecule has an unsub­sti­tuted naphtalene ring attached. Taking in account the meta­bolic path­ways sug­gested on the fol­lowing para­graph, it is quite pos­sible that it pro­duces epox­ides as meta­bolism inter­me­di­ates. Epox­ides are known to be carcinogenic.

    Meta­bolism: For JWH-​​018, the N-​​dealkyl meta­bolite could be detected as well as the hydroxylated meta­bolite. The highest signals could be observed for the hydroxylated N-​​dealkyl meta­bol­ites. Hydroxyla­tion took place in the side chain and in both aro­matic systems, the naph­thalene and the indol part, which could be shown by mass shift of the cor­res­ponding frag­ments and by MS3 experiments.

    Safety aside, can’t say I haven’t enjoyed these rc’s ;) Although I did have a 2 – 3 times where I ate way too much of #18 and got fucked to retardation.

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