Since my last post about the spice behind Spice (and other smoking mixtures such as Smoke, Serenity Now, K2, Sence, etc), it has been brought to my attention that some initial toxicology testing has been done on the synthetic cannabinoid JWH-018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information – the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one professor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal statement. If you, or anyone you know, has the relevant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!
(Quick Update – A lot of people have been discussing and linking to this post, but there remains some suspicion that I have something to gain by saying the JWH-018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I mentioned just above this, if I have got anything wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my analysis of the data is incorrect, I will correct it!)
Feel free to invent your own conspiracy theories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can download the PDF documents in this Zip file [2.04 MB]
CYP450 Inhibition Assay
This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on specific enzymes in your liver. These Cytochrome P450 enzymes are responsible for metabolising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also metabolised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to understand how one drug may affect the metabolism of another, in case of any disasterous drug-drug interactions.
Results: JWH-018 will probably interact with the metabolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.
hERG Binding Assay
hERG stands for human Ether-à-go-go Related Gene. This gene codes for a particular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are critical in coordinating the heart’s electrical activity. Unfortunately, these channels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, disrupting their function. This can lead to “Long QT Syndrome”, associated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these channels are disrupted.
Results: JWH-018 does not interfere with these channels. That’s a good thing.
Cytotoxicity Assay
This simple test essentially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.
Results: JWH-018 is not cytotoxic at low concentrations.
GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay
This assay looks at how much a drug will interfere with our DNA. Typically, anything that damages DNA is bad news, being potentially carcinogenic, making the rationale behind this test glaringly obvious. This test was also performed in the presence of a fraction taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its breakdown products.
Results: JWH-018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.
Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay
Guess what happens in this experiment. A number of renagade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and promised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio; that shit was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Initially, they appear lethargic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to problems breathing rather than organ toxicity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sensitive to the compound. The drug didn’t appear to accumulate in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, probably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachyphylactic (my new favourite word – it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state following an initial dosage).
Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equivalent dose is 0.016 mg/kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!
Rat Pharmacokinetics
Data is collected on a number of different “pharmacokinetic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, distributed throughout the body, metabolised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clinical trials.
Results: JWH-018 is distributed well throughout the rat’s tissues. Metabolism and excretion are normal, with a plasma half-life of approximately 2 hours
Summary
Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.
Feel free to ask any questions in the comments.
Big thanks to Alfa @ Drugs-Forum.com for letting me know about these studies. You can read all about JWH-018 on their Drugs Wiki.
COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW CLOSED. YOU CAN CONTINUE DISCUSSING SYNTHETIC CANNABINOIDS HERE OR INDIVIDUAL SMOKING MIXTURES HERE.
You Might Be Interested In:
Rate This Post:
(36 votes, average: 4.67 out of 5)
Loading ...
Would jwh-018 show up as THC in a urine,blood,hair folicule test? Since this is a relitively new compound. How much testing is actually being done on it? I wish somone with some credibility would be able to do some testing on this.
No, it won’t show up on a normal drug test.
The only similarities between this and THC are the receptors they both bind to.
After haviing found Bad Science, I think I should change my homepage! By luck I happened to find it by posting the link to this page on my website.
If I was on a desert island with just portal… give me more Bad Science!
But Science is good… and getting better. Just look what they can do with chemicals nowdays. Research continues.
Whether a drug is dangerous or not will not make any difference to the government in deciding whether to ban it. If it gets you high, in their minds, it is bad. If it is not dangerous, they will simply lie to people and tell them it is dangerous and ban it anyway.
The Gov’t wants to collect TAXES more, I think, than just about anything. They allow dangerous drugs and activities to remain legal in order to get tax revenue, despite the known risks.
People ALWAYS will want to gain cosmic insights, get loaded, zone out, get laid, and have adrenaline rushes… and will take whatever measures they feel necessary to get them.
If the Gov’t wants to declare JWH-018 as a danger to what — society? – then they can sure outlaw it, for what it’s worth to do so. The “War On Drugs” will continue — and to MY way of seeing things — THAT’S the REAL danger!!
regardless of its safety it may be it is not a patch on the real thing.Its like comparing rough cider to champagne.Personally i think the synthetic cannabis products are horrible and fail to see what the point is unlesss you are real desparate to get high.My advise if you can’t thec real thing do some cardia vascular excerise or yoga and do’nt waste your money on such awlful products
Chris (& possibly Tim): You might like to have a read of this post about religion’s role in keeping drugs illegal.
Motlly: Luckily, a lot of people disagree! In fact, some people prefer them to cannabis. I guess they’re also useful if all you can get hold of is shitty soapbar as sam commented on Can I Get High Legally?.
Thanks for the links, Synchronium.
For my opinion to count in the world, I have to make it known somehow. And my opinion is that whatever results in the least amount of harm, to the most people, is a GOOD THING.
Keeping natural substances illegal increases the incidence of violent crime, ruined relationships and lost opportunities pretty much any way you cut it — in MY book. Anyone who can defend a “War On Drugs” HAS to be messed up!
The beauty of a substance like jwh-018 is that its capable of giving people what they want, at a lower cost, in a pure form with a set dosage, and less apparent health risks, too.
It can be regulated by taxation, and since not everyone can or wants to produce it (as compared to throwing some weed seeds in the dirt) there’s less chance of a violent black market springing up if responsible parties are trusted to produce it under laboratory conditions.
If there’s no way to ELIMINATE risks of inevitable human activities and desires — why not take the next best step and minimize them as much as possible? As much as the conservatives and religious right would have otherwise… the simple truth is the genie is out of the bottle and ain’t about to climb back in.
I passed a hospital drug screen having smoked a jwh-018 fortified herbal blend daily for about a week before the test. JWH-018 will not cause you to fail a drug test.
im on probation and i think it would take them months to figure out the what they were looking for. my inpute on jwh-018 four stare high. synthetic supplys has a very good herbal mix called budda blend for a great price 5 grams for 30 dollars.stronger than pep spice spice gold ect……..
they cant win the war on drugs anyway!
I have been smoking an herbal blend called Stryker for about a week now. I have noticed some lower back stiffness and aches-could this be related? I’m a little scared, as the package was totally shady, no ingredients listed, no manufacturer name-NOTHING!
I do have to say though, this herbal blend, much like Serenity Now Herbal incense, is totally intense and very long lasting! If anyone has had any similar side effects, please post!
personally i like it..medically its good to kno about some of this stuff .. and i always have some to share..
My sons friend just smoked some jwh-018 that he purchased on ebay and is now in the emergency room and can’t breath on his own,,this stuff is really dangrous
Yes jwh is Toxic….
Only after 5 year of abuse.
its come to the surface…
If you want to use 018.
then go ahead.
but let me tell you.. in the end, you will give it up
Spaced out: Perhaps you know something we don’t. Got any sauce for those facts?
My wise old daddy told me years and years ago that “Too much of ANYTHING is not good” — and I believe him.
What constitutes Jwh-018 “abuse”? Once a day? Or week? Wake and bake and stay loaded all day, day in and day out? Guess we all have to determine that for ourselves.
As with any other substance/drug, it can indeed be dangerous or even deadly, I suppose… even as if you were to consume too much WATER it could kill you, too. The problem with this chemical is that it is effective in such TEENSY TINY quantities that incautious people will inevitably sometimes take too much and get wigged out from it.
Know your tolerance and know your doseages, and take care!
its considerably nore potent that thc, if you like did a hot knife with it or something it would be like taking loads of hits of pure thc oil all at once, you have to dilute it or you will overdose and end up in a bad state, like if you smoke waaaaay too much weed i guess…
I wonder what the effects are when the substance is used in a vaporizer?
I’ve now had a number of experiencea with JWH-018. Personally, I love it. I’m on probation and this is the only way I was able to comfortably quit smoking weed. I find the buzz to be identical to marijuana at loto moderate doses but the main problem is dosing correctly. Without a milligram scale it can be very east to put out too much. A couple people around town and I have experienced a high dose and its not very pleasant. Whatever you do, be careful because it can cause panic attacks and difficulty breathing. We found that a mound about the size of a pot seed is a good dose to start with. Once you grow a little tolerance to it then you can dose a little higher. In the event that you do dose too high, don’t freak out and don’t fight it. It’s stronger than you. The best thing to do is just sit back and go along for the ride until you can grasp it. Best of luck and be careful.
Can I fail a drug court test by smoking Serenity Now Herbal Incense? Feels like I smoke that good and I do not want to piss for these people and have to do 30 days ………like asap
ya watch e-bay, my pet monkey got JWH-018 200 mg’s and and when he ran out to the mailbox 2 days later it was there! but.. it was prolly only 30-50% pure, this is the dangerous part, not truly knowing how much to put in when the batch is “cut”, be careful, but i can also say since i was raided for 26 plants, (all attitude feminized seeds, 10 white dwarfs were ready for harvest, and the others were in 3 weeks bloom, white widow ss haze, etc…fox farm certified!) errrrrrrrrr anyway i have very little money and have found it nice to buy a couple gram of cannibus and a sizable amount of jwh-018, jwh-073 w/e theres now 2 more also. anyways its nice to mix a hit or two of real cannibus with 018 to get a lil more than a meranol effect (thc pill) very cerebral and nice by itself, but feels more comrortable with some real erb, this is a cheap way to stretch a budget if you have true nausea/pain issues like me. unfortunately im from the states and there is no herbal blends i know of here, im sure when or if im tried (idk wuts goin on at the moment as i do have serious medical ailments) i will find an herbal blend instead of just smokin some powder on a cigg, those herbal blends all range in types of jwh’s and have other weaker cannabanoid receptor attaching chems. in them, i here it is a good way to go if you know a good vendor for a spice that says whats in it. I don’t know any. my monkey wants to know though, he liked my plants to.
Serenity Now is Awesome, and I passed my drug test just fine! If you are scared just go to the drug store and get an at home test to ease your mind.
What is PARSLIJUANA?
Just a word I made up for 500 MG of JWH-018 mixed in with 5 grams of dried parsely flakes soaked until dry in a cup or so of 95% EverClear.
Almost makes one want to register the domain name, hmmm??
JWH-018 Is an excellent ‘drug’ – First few times of use will be like very similar to what most cannabis ‘users’ experienced. Very very stoned feeling, Maybe not fully enjoyable? But you learn to enjoy it more and I guess you nearly instantly build up a small tolerance to where you can enjoy it.
My experiences with this JWH-018 was nearly mirror’d as if i was taking weed for the first time.
As a 10 year cannabis smoker (daily) I enjoyed it, But After just one day of using jwh-018, rapidly built up a big tolerance to this, Exactly the same as weed/skunk what ever
But yeh, Nice to experience. Also nice to mix with weed or smoking blends.
I cant see any one going to hospital over this or anytihng. I smoked very high doses of it, Just ended up as if I smoked like half ounce of decent weed, monged out, needing food/water, Proper felt same for the following morning.
I rate it highly, Sad thing is the tolerance Issue.
I’m going to try out the other jwh-xxx’s – See what they’re saying!
Oh yeh nice site btw!
does anyone know if smoking blends like spice gold, smoke xxx that contain jwh everyday for a year cause some kind of cancer? and is jwh o18 safe to use or deadly? ive been hearing different things about this so i thought id ask.
Recently I ordered 5 grams of JWH-018 from [THE INTERNET]. The product came in 3 days and was of the highest quality and a good price. I gave a few of my friends some doses and told them how to safely dose yourself. Unfortunately, they gave some to friends too and didn’t explain the dosages and someone ended up going to the hospital because they thought they were going to die. Since they got it from someone who got it from someone, they didn’t know the proper name for it and the hospital thought they were given ghb. The girl was fine after about an hour but a lot of questions are now being asked. This stuff is awesome, but it’s no joke.
You can find JWH-018 of equal quality for considerably less if you look around… or even free (10MG) samples of it at [ANOTHER WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET]. I’ll be the first to agree, though, that this “awesome stuff” is definately “no joke”.
With that in mind, my advice is to make the straight chemical into a standardized, easy to use form that you can share with others that won’t get them in the emergency room to do ignorance of how to use it. The original “parslijuana” I made was toooo strong, so it was diluted to about 7 grams of parsley to 500 MG of JWH-018, soaked in a cup of 95% Everclear grain alcohol until dry.
This way, if shared with others, the instructions are “Take ONE hit every 1-2 hours as desired”. Those with a pre-existing tolerance buildup could manage two hits back to back… but most people (IMHO) will realize within 2-3 minutes that a single hit is all that is needed… or desired.
Hey all…..
UK readers might be interested in the following report to the Home Secretary from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs:
http://drugs.homeoffice.gov.uk/publication-
search/acmd/acmd-report-agonists?view=Binary
In addition, there’s an interesting link on the following page from the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction regarding their recomendations for the control of Spice and synthetic cannabinoid agonists such as the JWH group:
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachements.cfm/att_80086_EN_EMCDDA_Understanding%20the%20‘Spice’%20phenomenon_4Update%2020090813.pdf
The following was of special interest:
“The Commission-funded Psychonaut web mapping project continuously monitors the web for novel
compounds, using 9 languages, with the support of different tools/software (e.g. Google Insight, Blue Crab,
Boolean Search, InSite, Advanced Web Ranking and SerpSpy). The project monitors regularly more than
200 websites, forums and blogs which provide information on many compounds”
Hope I’ve not bored you all too silly….
in a hospital blood scan. will serenity now contents show up ? and what will it show up as? i understand it wont show up in a piss test becuase the piss test would have to know what its looking for. but what about a full blown hospital blood scan that they give for a “on the job accident” , etc.
HairyCelt, that is very interesting stuff! I skimmed through it, and found it to be very interesting but really technical. Right now I am resorting to using ginko biloba mixed with piracetam to get my cerebral fix. This combination creates clear mindedness and alertness. I wish there was a legal substance that I could vaporize with no trouble.
I have over the used used forums like this in my exploration of drugs. So now I will give back. I have been doing JWH-018 for about 7 months now. The only thing that would give me a clue that I wasnt smoking weed is the way JWH is smoked. Other than that, to me, its like dank nugs. I am 34 and smoked since 14….steadily. I was your typical pot head. Then as a result of a divorce and a narc wife, I had to quit pot…for my kids sake…I have custody. Well, I have had 2 piss test at work. Taken at a hospital, passed, no questions, 1 piss test for court, Redimed…Passed….I was injured at work=workers comp….Passed. It is safe to say you can pass test with no worries. I have went through about 8 grams now…I love it.As with any drug…responsible use, caution and respect will prove useful and ensure the fact that you can now be high all you want…and they cant even prove it. In closeing, I use a very small wire with a flat end…very very small…I find with no scales…this wire will only alow me to pick up a minimal amount at a time…but Ill just shut up now…..DAMN I LOVE JWH>HE should have gotten the nobel peace prize….
Rather interesting to read how many people post about the JWH-018 and use terms as “I love this stuff”, “my beloved JWH” and such.
Seems like more people have found it to be of benefit than have gotten freaked out about it. Most everyone also mentions using it RESPONSIBLY — which should be a no-brainer with ANY substance/drug — but still, is good advice for Newbies.
Some will love it, for sure, and those who hate it just don’t like drugs or something, I guess. The drugs/drugs effects aren’t “the problem” with most drugs as much as the person who abuses them, eh?
Seems unlikely that NarcoTerrorists are gonna be gunning people down in Detroit to sell this stuff, so no problem there, either. Shucks, I wouldn’t even mind paying State sales tax on it if they/The Govt allowed it to be sold at the corner 7-11 at a resonable price.
Why not?
Hey everyone, my second post. I am reading the actual patent for this stuff and I am reading some interesting elements as such:
quote “DESCRIPTION OF SOME PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS
As used herein, a “therapeutically effective amount” of a compound, is the quantity of a compound which, when administered to an individual or animal, results in a sufficiently high level of that compound in the individual or animal to cause a discernible increase or decrease in stimulation of cannabinoid receptors. Physiological effects that result from cannabinoid receptor stimulation include analgesia, decreased nausea resulting from chemotherapy, sedation and increased appetite. Other physiological functions include relieving intraocular pressure in glaucoma patients and suppression of the immune system. Typically, about 10 mg/day to about 1,000 mg/day is a possible “therapeutically effective amount” for the inventive compounds. ”
10 mg per day… how much are you guys using?
The compound of the present invention can be administered by a variety of known methods, including orally, rectally, or by parenteral routes (e.g., intramuscular, intravenous, subcutaneous, nasal or topical). The form in which the compounds are administered will be determined by the route of administration. Such forms include, but are not limited to, capsular and tablet formulations (for oral and rectal administration), liquid formulations (for oral, intravenous, intramuscular or subcutaneous administration) and slow releasing microcarriers (for rectal, intramuscular or intravenous administration). The formulations can also contain a physiologically acceptable vehicle and optional adjuvants, flavorings, colorants and preservatives. Suitable physiologically to acceptable vehicles may include, for example, saline, sterile water, Ringer’s solution, and isotonic sodium chloride solutions. The specific dosage level of active ingredient will depend upon a number of factors, including, for example, biological activity of the particular preparation, age, body weight, sex and general health of the individual being treated.
So obviously, according to the patent, we don’t have to risk getting cancer by smoking it, we can actually use it topically on the skin and get an effect, or mix it in a liquid and drink it? Smoking is probably the worst way of using this stuff.
Here are my main concerns before attempting to try this stuff.
1) How can a person verify that the stuff they purchase is really pure? Which vendors are the best?
2) How can a person actually measure out 10, 20 or 30 mgs of the stuff?
3) Has anyone used this stuff in a method other then smoking it? I would be interested in vaporizing.
keep these posts rolling, knowledge is power,
btw, if you want the patent link here it is:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7241799.PN.&OS=PN/7241799&RS=PN/7241799
I know a fellow who uses JWH-018 orally and reports real good results from it. Dose size is unknown exactly, but estimated 5-10 MG. He says he’s never had a “bit too much” using it that way as compared to smoking it — where even a little “too much” can bring on undesireable side effects.
My wife has tried it orally both in about 3-6 MG amounts, my estimate… and the same headaches occured for her as if she had used a “natural cannaboid”. Since she can count the times she’s smoked pot on one hand, pretty much — and it didn’t “work” for her — and since she’s not a smoker by nature, either — the JWH-018 just “wasn’t her thing”.
It’s been my impression that OLD HANDS — folks of the Boomer Generation — are more likely to fall in love with this substance than your average Young Buck.
Hey Jason. In responce to how much we use. I find tolerance for myself is much greater than with weed…with me the tolerance seems to be almost as fast as opiates. But I find I reach an amount that seems to satisfy consistantly. When I first got this stuff….I hadnt smoked pot in about 1 year. I did a poy seed sized amount and…oh shit man…I couldnt move, light hurt, I was drooling…sweating…I woke up like 5 hours late for work….so….I learned extreme caution….it was Hell I thought I was going to die…on another time I gave a hit to a 55 year old lady friend. she was ok at first, then she like layed down on my bed, her hands and fingers curled up…and she cryed and begged for help for like 45 minutes…then puked…and passed out. I was really afraid she would die or something….on that not…….RESPONSIBLE USE…and I highly doubt this will be sold at the gas station…as a matter of fact….I KNOW it will be illegal soon as enough idiots get caught with it or start selling it on the street corner….so get all u can…thats my motto..lol…..and Ive actually ate some in candy about four pot seeds worth…and it was awsome…it seems much more economic to smoke it though….take care all synthetic caniboid explorers.
See, i need something that I could take and go to work with no problem. I can’t afford to have an adverse effect like this. Also, what about jwh-073, hu-200 and all of these other substances, has anyone tried them?
In July 2009, I went into my husband’s home office to find him slam in the middle of a grand maul seizure. I called the ambulance and at the hospital they gave him something introveniously. Who would have thought that would happen to him?
Hmmm. . .go ahead. . .do it again. Who knows what ONE TIME will do to you. Take a stand against crap like this. IT has to start somehwere.
Wanda: Please shed some more light on your husband’s experience. How much did he take? Was it pure, etc? Perhaps you could persuade him to come on here and explain the situation for himself?
Sorry to hear about Wanda’s husband… but when it comes to psychoactive substances, the genie is out now… so what should we do?
First, use reason/prudence/caution/respect about the substances we choose to use. Then we need to make sure we’re not going to harm anyone ELSE by what we’re doing.
Alcohol is, to me, the REAL “crap” that needs to be taken off the shelves — but it’s been around and been legal for … how long? People abuse it every day. ONE DRINK too many and it’s off the cliff you go… same with most other things — too much is NOT GOOD.
It’s not the booze or the dope that’s “the problem” usually as much as the person who uses it without educating themselves on what consequences they may likely/potentially face by its use. Mistakes happen, Ignorance happens — I know from personal experience!
And while I’ve had at least a few pretty wickedly BAD trips in my day, overall I think my life has been enhanced in positive ways from the experiences I’ve had, including those that didn’t kill me. When I find and know my limit for something I need to then take the responsibility to not cause myself a problem because over the limit is not good, either.
Well, if you want to swim in the ocean, you cant complain about getting stung sometimes…..
This is like most everything else, education is critical! Buy a milligram scale (.0001 accurate, $50 or so with some internet searching.
I see folks talking about “smoking” JWH 018. I highly recommend vaporizing.
Get a small appliance lightbulb.
Look at the end you screw into the socket. It has a shiny black surface with a tiny piece of wire in the center. Grab that bit of wire with pliers and pull out. Now that the black is cracked, you can chip it out, taking care not to tear up the soft aluminum of the bulb.
Once the black is completely gone, remove the lighting element (may have to tap it with anything long and skinny. All you want is a glass bulb with a hollow end.
I wrapped a bit of electrical tape around the threads (not needed).
If you do not have a scale, i suggest this. Use a BIC pen cap, and get a small pile, not more than 1mm worth, and pour this into the bulb.
I will say this, just hold the bulb upright and pour the powder in. It reminds me of small sand grains, it falls right to the curve of the bulb, maybe tap it gently with your finger to condense the pile.
Screw a 2 liter cap over the end of the bulb. It will fit loosely. I did this so the vapor wouldnt escape.
Now have a drinking straw handy.
For those unfamilar with vaporizing, you are not “burning” the product, you are releasing the vapors without burning the material.
Ok, here what to do and what will happen. I vape it in two parts. First part turns it froms a solid powder to a liquid.
Hold your lighter a good 2 inches below the pile and start adding heat. move the flame slowly closer until you see the powder start to liquify. Go slow, do not rush it. Once its a liquid puddle, stop adding heat!
It will solidify somewhat.
Now the vape begins. do the same with the lighter, 2 inches below, slowly move it up. Again go slow! as the flame get closer you will see the puddle start to give off vapor.Once it starts to give off vapor, try to stay the same distance from the bulb. move the lighter around the puddle to vape it all. Your bulb should be full of foglike smoke.
Once the vaping is done, quickly take the cap off, insert your straw, and inhale the vapors.
Sit back and enjoy!!!! You will feel a bit of tightness in your chest, so DONT PANIC!!!! It passes pretty quickly! I was fully expecting the chest tightness, and it still drew my attention.
Be responsible. I love to smoke pot, but honestly, if you smoke lesser quality, this stuff is definitely better!
Thanks everyone!
BTW, the JWH-018 is very indica like, but the JWH-073 is very cerebral, very sativa like, so go with your choice!
I imagine the two together would be fantastic!
I think jwh-073 is more for me then jwh-018. I love sativa! Has anyone else used jwh-073? I would like to know what effects people have gotten, and the recommended dosage.
i have just been given some jwh180 to try but not being funny it looks like it should go up the nose rather in a spliff.
if things have got that bad you would risk smoking that shit you need to talk to FRANK!!!!!
Whoa!! Don’t snort this stuff… just a bit of basic knowledge for those who may not know. I’d hate to even try to think what that might be like.
YIKES!!
I hear this stuff will be illegal in the UK from the 21st of December.
Dec 23rd, I think. The full ban is attached to the end of this post.
I bought a gram of pure jwh 018 from a friend and smoked it ‘heavily’ for about 2 months everyday.I am an old dope smoker who has smoked nearly everyday since 1969,so I am pretty experienced and i took LSD about 150 times in the 70′s.I found jwh to be far more than a marijuana substitute.In minute doses it is comparable to skunk.But it is very easy to get higher than you hoped for.In a slightly larger doses it is more like LSD,but without the paranoia that sometimes comes with LSD.The 2nd time I took JWH I did about 50 to 100 times too much and it was very scary.(I was drunk on beer and my judgment was impaired) I hallucinated wildly which was fun ,but the other effects were unpleasant.My heart was pounding like it would jump out of my chest.I had cramps in my legs and arms and had cold sweats.I also got very paranoid and at times thought I was going to die !My wife ,who doesn’t do drugs suggested I get fresh air and breath deeply ,move about and think nice thoughts.It worked and I felt much better! So now I am much more careful and avoid it if I am drunk! I find that the intense high lasts about 2-3 hours but that I stay mildly high for the next 20 hours or so. One toke a day in the evening is enough.When I smoke skunk I usually do 5 or 6 smokes a day..So jwh is more economical and less harmful to my lungs I think.It also seems to be a clearer high,less goofy and less forgetful.So I would recommend it to any long term smoker but would say be careful !The effects creep up on you.It takes about 5 -10 minutes to get the full high.So it’s very easy to do too much.I would not recommend it to people who have little experience with hallucinagens as it might freak them out…
Important point made in the previous post… it does take 10 minutes or so for the full effects to kick in. And time can do weird things, like go too fast or slow than you realize is happening. Best to write down the time somewhere when you get started, and keep in mind to check the time now and then.
Newbies need to appreciate the advice of the previous poster in regards to a lack of experience with hallucinogens in general. Specificly, if one has previous experience with substances such as Salvia Divinorum and DMT — things what have quite a WHACK to them — it’s easier to go with the sudden transformation from being straight to totally… out there.
One 5-second hit of what I can Parslijuana (or “Pwanna”) the size of a small pea/pinch/16th teaspoon works wonders for a good amount of time and leaves one with enough motor ability to answer the phone, walk to the kitchen, etc.
It seems that ebay has blocked sales of this stuff. Where can someone buy this and how does one know how pure or impure it is?
I don’t think we’re allowed to post vendors, it’s just like average weed as far as effects go with me.
It’s pretty damn close, in fact..
Ok. I’ve read many questions and only one brief answer about what exactly jwh-073 does and how it compares to jwh-018. I like the 018 A LOT. I have to take drug tests, and I think it’s even better than weed and so glad I discovered it. Although, weed is the only thing I can compare it to. I can see how it would be similar to acid if you smoke too much, like everyone has already said. But if you just do the little bit and gradually build your tolerance, I love it! It only made me paranoid and super ripped the first time, mainly because I think I was so wigged out about what it even was and how it wouldn’t show up on a drug test, which is hasn’t. But what’s with the 073. I read a post that said 018 is like indica and 073 is more like sativa, but I need that broken down in a little simpler terms. Any advice would be helpful!
Indica is a body high, or body buzz. Usually relaxes your body , muscles, etc. Sativa is more of a mind buzz, cerebral. Personally, I prefer sativa because it stimulates my imagination, and creativity. It seems that I am more focused and I do everything better. Indica makes me really lazy and puts my brain in a fog and makes me less productive.
Mr Skunk thinks that 073 is very nice except the fact it only seems to last about an hour, and it gets pretty more-ish. It was enjoyed, but it goes MUCH faster than 018 making it a lot less economical. 5mg 018 and 10mg 073 is a very nice buzz for Mr Skunk.
Re the previous message… would one be able to use the 10 MG of 073 orally with good results, or is that a smoked amount?
I’d just like to correct the end of Ben Hailey’s wonderful post as he mixed the -018 and -073 up, for the record it is the -018 that is the sativa high and the -073 that is an indica high.
-018 is about three times the potency of -073. a 1 to 3mg dose of -018 like any sativa is a very heady, psychedelic, creative, buzzy brain high and can be incredibly aggressive and unforgiving with even 1 mg too much.
A 3 to 9mg dose of -073 like any indica is a more sedating, sleepy, body high with analgesic properties, it’s highly unlikely one would panic on typical doses of -073 due to the nature of this compound, it’s kind and mellow.
Most people I’ve come across prefer -073 but tend to build up tolerance very quickly and thus use it up very quickly.
A combination of one part -018 and three parts -073 is a perfect mix.
Find a plethora of experience reports relating to JWH-015, JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-081, JWH-200, JWH-250 at drugs-forum.com
Do your homework before messing around with JWH-018, this is not cannabis, it’s an INCREDIBLY powerful synthetic chemical and a .001mg scale is essential.
And I return again. I went through 5 grams in about 2 months. Ive been out for 2 months and got more today. Wow, its like geting high for the first time. My point being, rapid tolerance is the bigest issue for me. I will try to limit it to only late night use…though like crack…you just wanna feel this good all the time. I have found a light bulb the BEST way. Previously I burned it in a pipe on ash…except for the cost of lighters…vaporizing seems much more economical….ive done a total of 7 1/2 grams of this shit now…and feel im pretty experienced…so once its Illegal here in USA…I can say I did it….also…yes the guy that compared it with acid….Dude it is at high doses. Be careful everyone…and enjoy it…they will take it from us soon.
i have been smoking jwh-018 for a while now. i recently learned that a guy i know died after smokin this. he went to lay dowwn for a nap and never woke up. they think he quit breathing in his sleep. this stuff is dangerous and people smokin it should definately know their dosage. please be careful
I smoked about 100 mg over the course of 2-3 days. It is very strong stuff, scary…. affects the body too much ( I was scared I was gonna die) and I had a little trouble breathing the next day ( I do have asthma)
It does get you blasted, be very careful if you experiment. Just do a tiny tiny bit and resist the temptation to keep getting loaded multiple times in a night like I did.
While I definitely concur with the “know your dosage” caveat, it seems kind of strange to me that someone would go to sleep while under heavy effects of Jwh-018…?
Maybe it’s just me, but it tends to energize me for the first hour or so after use — hardly sleepy!
On the learning curve towards getting to know the Sweet Spot dosage I did sort of overdose somewhat a few times… and those episodes we’re intense (and scary) enough to keep me waaay awake until they subsided.
JWH-018 is dangerous to use with caution and respect, for sure.
In China when you want to buy weed, all they usually sell is “hash” but in actual fact China is the largest producer of JWH, so it’s usually substituted with JWH, but they still call it hash.
So it’s the most common drug around over there, at least in some areas. With their harsh laws and punishments(execution) I guess it’s safer to sell JWH and tell everyone it’s cannabis. They cut it with THC and pollen from the low potency wild native cannabis strains sometimes, or with just random stuff… anyway, you can tell that it is JWH since it’s orally active, whilst THC needs to be bonded with oil/fat molecules to be readily absorbed by the body. I know several people who tried it orally, they say the high was long lasting and said there were no ill effects, by the sounds of it the effect was fairly mild though. They didn’t even take a measured dosage. But I think all the JWH sold on the streets in China is cut. You can get pure stuff in bulk from manufacturers over there though.
If you want to test whether it’s pure, I heard from an semi-reliable source that you can dissolve it in water. Pure JWH should dissolve completely(no sediments/particulates visible at all) and then revert back to a crystaline state when the water is evaporated off. But I haven’t tested or verified this. I know it does dissolve in isopropyl alcohol though.
The powder should also be white or slightly off white. The less white it is the more impure it probably is. But it can be cut with white powders, so looking closely at it you will see that it is sparkly and crystalline like sugar or salt, not dull like ajax haha. So if it’s white but isn’t a bit sparkly in direct light, then it’s probably cut with chalk or something…
according to everything else i have read, it is not soluble in water or even alcohol with more than about 25% water content…
as i understand it, it is best dissolved in acetone to lay it on something …at least the chemistry majors think so.
i have also heard of good results with everclear and 151…but you have to agitate it and heat the alcohol in a hot water bath a bit to make it dissolve completely.
i have also seen reports of recrystallization when this alcohol was cooled, so it would seem that alcohol has it’s limits.
at least if you use acetone to lay it on, it will completely evaporate; and you can’t miss it when it has because it’s odor is so pungent.
personally, acetone worries me a bit…i think i’ll stick with everclear.
I’ve been bonging JWH-018 on top of a pile of Spice for the last few months. I have high body weight and high tolerance so I smoke about 4-5 mg at a time and this gets me as baked as you’d ever wish to be.
I recently accidentally overdosed (long story, my own stupid fault) on about 8-10 mg and had an incredibly nasty experience that involved projectile vomiting, temporary blindness, rivers of cold sweat, shaking, waves of fire sweeping through my body, and losing sense of who I was or what was going on. It was pure torture for about an hour, and I was in so much physical and mental pain that I prayed to die or be released.
Please guys, don’t make the same mistake I did. I’ve found JWH-018 wonderful when used respectfully and cautiously. But throw caution to the wind one time, and this stuff will not go easy on you!
I’ve gotten to the point where my attitude is pretty much “you can’t do TOO LITTLE” when it comes to the Jwh-018.
Even teensy amounts seem to have SOME effect — while teensy amounts TOO MUCH will have WAY too much oomph. I concur with CHRYSALIS — go easy with this stuff. Know your “sweet spot” and don’t think that just a little bit more is ok!
Once you’ve had a taste of The Fears, you’ll likely learn… the hard way.
I see all of these comments about this stuff and find it very interesting. However I think that it is extremely unfortunate that very very very little is known about the long term affects of this substance. I think we should put our money together and high a scientist to find out the long term effects of this stuff so we’ll all know and want be ignorant!
Jason: The problem with finding out the long-term effects of a substance is that it takes…a long time. And now it is illegal in the UK, and as we have recently seen, politicians aren’t massive fans of the truth, especially when it clashes with their established drug policy.
Making it illegal will make getting funding to get funding and licenses to experiment with JWH more difficult.
So the Government have it set on two levels: 1) By limiting research on JWH they prevent information about it arising which could challenge their position; 2) As we have seen, even when pertinent information is present, they ignore it anyway!
As for putting out money together, its a nice idea, but would require one or more of us to be extremely wealthy, as extended trials of this kind, even in rats, cost an extraordinary amount.
Ive smoked roughly all the spice blends and conclude that pep spice is the best alternative to thc. The main ingredient is lactuca virosa. It states all the ingredients on the package as is very relaxing.Lactuca virosa is a wild lettuce that when cut , secretes out its magical source of a legal high. Just like poppys do. Wildly grown in britain. Legal in the us. Those of you that state jwh-018 made someone you know go to the hospital and couldnt breath , must have either done something else or have had some lung condition that requires no smoking, because ive smoked it for a 4 month period 5 times a day everyday. Jwh-018 is as good but id consider pep spice because of the replicated high to that of some good med marijuana high.
I have smoked JWH around thirty times so far. It is great
in small amounts, leaves you “high” for several hours and makes your feel awesome. As far as the woman with a kid in the ER, sorry your son was a moron who more than likely smoked tons of JWH to show off to his friends, this stuff is plainly labeled and sold for adult use only. I heard many stories from teens who claim to smoke Salvia Devinorum in large quantities. Kids should not to using “Drugs” by any means. I have not seen any effects in myself other than a expansion of myself intellectually, maybe a slight decline in motivation, but it is winter right now. I think it’s great for people who have to take drug tests and still want to watch a buzz from time to time and not worry about losing their job or going to jail. Great stuff!!!
what about red dawn spark gold ???? any reviews???
Do u just mix jwh in to batch as blending or is there more to it?I just ordered diferent herbs.
This stuff is kind of awkward when smoked with other ppl. It seems almost as if a mood enhancer that works as a collective energy among the ppl you are around. I would describe as coming on like the body buzz after Salvia then slowly morphing similar to rolling. This is Serenity Now, gold pack. Odd stuff, even in small doses it is very potent, different buzz entirely. Very strong
so i have tried “serenity now” couple nights ago and had the worst trip ever. i occiasonaly smoke pot and tried serenity with my buddy. i felt as if i couldnt breathe and my heart was beating really fast. for some reason now i feel as if somthing is missing in my head, kinda have a hard time sleeping at times and concentrating. so my question is, are there any long term side effects of this drug???? anything to worry about or will it just go away??
I know what you mean about the small anxiety at the onset, nothing to panic, use in moderation, don’t smoke it like it is marijuana. I can’t see any long term side effects over the 3 months I have used the “spice” blends and it has not been around long enough for these effects to be accurately tested. Please please PLEASE use with extreme caution, this stuff can be very unpleasant in large amounts.
My bottom line advice to JWH-018 newbies is to keep two basic concepts in mind:
1. You almost cannot use TOO LITTLE to get SOME effect — so use in teensy tiny amounts to start with… and even after you’ve got a feel for how much does how much — increase dosage by likewise teeny tiny amounts.
2. You almost cannot wait TOO LONG to let it do what it’s gonna do — so be very very patient and just let it ride. Piling more on while the first hit or two are still up and coming is a sure way to have a very unpleasant experience.
WARNING, PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I have used JWH-018 because i am on probation and can not smoke weed. I have developed a severe addiction to the substance and it has really messed me up. I stoped smoking it and starting from day 1, i could not sleep. I got an average of 3 hours of sleep at night, i lost about 5 lb’s from loss of appatite, and i have been having fits of rage (ither from loss of sleep, or withdrawl). I would sudjest that you do not mess with this drug. As many of my friends are also addicted and are having the same problems as me. After about 1 full week of not being in contact with this drug my body is still having withdrawls and i am going to a doctor to help me. I would avoid this drug if you don’t want this to happen to you
Could you not try and taper off? If sleeping and eating are your main issues, why not try taking a lower than usual dose before your meal in the evening and before bed? Then, you wouldn’t be smoking it continuously to get high, only to treat those withdrawals. Gradually, you can reduce the amounts and stop taking before either the meal or bed and eventually stop all together.
For everyone saying you can go crazy, end up hospitalized, and all that..i have to tell you this.. i was on my way to a hookah lounge this past tuesday and one of my close friends who is on probation smoked an entire blunt of serinty. 1 whole gram. he DID NOT go to the hospital, he DID NOT go insane.. oh and also, in the town in which i live, i can go to gas stations and buy serenity.. im not sure of the amounts in the bags but the prices are.. $20, $45 and $70 this of things this way.. if marijuana wasnt discovered until now, there would be forums and rumors on the internet about it too.. tobacco is terrible for someone to smoke, but its legal and people are ok with it.. nicotine is a drug and if enough is smoked, you get a buzz. same with caffeine. why are these things ok and marijuana isnt? serenity now is not a bad thing.. but that doesnt mean its a good thing.. but i think ill just stick to the herb
It’s easier for people to blame a drug than challenge why they may be having severe reactions.
Drugs are always taking the rap for peoples psychological issues and stupidity.
i have been putting jwh 018 on my own herd and it work great i was wondering if it would be any better on weed
The most reasonable and safe method of consumption I have found is from a post on Drugs-Forum, which I will now paraphrase and expand upon.
Note, I have tried this, it works, it is the bee’s knees. I do not know why anyone would bother eyeballing and smoking this extremely powerful concentrated agent, when it can so effectively be regulated through the following solvent method.
Truthfully, I cannot even see the reason in dissolving the solvent onto a smokeable substrate, except for continuance of the social ritual of “smoking the bud”. But that is a great deal of work and still not very exact for the kind of potency and sensitivity we are talking about with professional lab-grade chemical. There is simply no need to smoke or vape, or risk any possibility of OD or The Fear, with the ease of this method and the long-term storage advantages inherent in the method.
Dissolve 250mg of JWH into 100mL of 190-proof Everclear. You must use 190 proof Everclear, which is available in my local liquor store down the street but may also be ordered online.
The math holds, so if you have 1000mg (1 gram) of JWH, dissolve into 400mL of 190-proof Everclear. I have personally done this with half-and-half of JWH-018 and JWH-073, 500mg a piece into 400mL Everclear. I’d recommend pouring the Everclear into a clear wide-mouthed receptacle with a “mL” scale on the side, like one of those large Pyrex measuring cups or beakers.
Most of the JWH will dissolve in the Everclear, except for a very small pile which will settle at the bottom. You will want to crush this up by using something like a wooden spoon or potato masher thrust down into the liquid and gently poking and scraping at the remnants of powder. Let the liquid resettle until you see more flakes at the bottom, and repeat poking and grinding. Let settle and repeat again and again, be patient, takes a bit of time but not too long and soooo worth it. Note that there is absolutely NO heating necessary, and it is quite stupid to be heating grain alcohol in your kitchen anyway. You do not need to heat anything, just use a little elbow grease to get your solution clear of any remaining flakes and granules.
Eventually you have a perfectly dissolved JWH solution which can be stored in the freezer or fridge, in a liquor bottle or, even better, a white wine bottle with a screwcap (no cork!) works great. It will store indefinitely.
With this solution, you are getting 2.5 milligrams of JWH per single milliliter of fluid.
You need a way to measure and dose by the milliliter.
Get a 3mL 22g syringe, I prefer with needle for precision but be careful with that needle waving around. You can buy these syringes in singles, ten packs, hundred packs online for cheap. I recommend a ten pack, costs about ten bucks.
Now, when ready, pour just a tiny tiny bit of your JWH juice into a shallow wide glass or small bowl. Slurp up 2 milliters of the stuff into your syringe for a 5 milligram dose (good starting reference point, very average dose). Pour whatever is left in your staging glass back into your storage bottle with aid of a small funnel. Remember to wash that staging glass very very well with dish detergent later.
Now you can inject the 2 milliliters in your syringe into your drinking vessel of choice, top with a small shot of pomegranate juice or other preferred cool beverage, knock it back….off you go.
One could conceivably procure a fair amount of JWH now, make several batches of the solution described above, and store away in the freezer or other cool dark place for years, perhaps decades, deftly weathering inevitable prohibition by various and sundry rampaging government agencies. Cheers!
Now that JWH-018 and 073 have been made illegal in Kansas and Ohio, how many other States are going to follow suit?
How are these “forensic experts” in Kansas testing the blend labeled K2??(that blend was specifically named in the hearings), what “scientific test” were run to make them announce they discovered it to be MUCH stronger than THC?? Did the partake in the “study” themselves??
The general statements made by these so called experts in the case is enough to make you sick, clueless legislators to be sure,
from my reading it was a very small lab in Germany that finally broke through the decoding and “discovered” the JWH chemicals in Spice, it seems no other “Big” Labs were able to detect it through many trials/tests.
The Legislature passed the ban in Kansas 36-1, the One that voted nay replied he thought it was extreme and unnecessary moves to ban it, and the passing was a result of reacting to hysteria and now NO RESEARCH will be able to be done on it in Kansas or Ohio.
The only good thing I can hope for is that looking at Salvia as an example, some states have banned it or made it illegal while others have decided there are BETTER things that need worrying about besides what legal alternatives adults chose to partake of, and try to make it illegal.
Where do you have proof or a fact that those states were banned for jwh-018 .. you state ohio and kansas are banned can you proof this to us!
Here is the link for the Kansas issue with K-2.
http://www.kmbc.com/politics/22419909/detail.html
Try Spark
me and all of my padnas been smoking serenity now for months now and the only side effects we get is mild nausia sometimes and a sore throat, other than that its fine, but i do not know the long term effects. theres really no hard information about this drug, but i would sure like to know cause man its the shit.
X1, what a great idea! No need to smoke this stuff, it doesn’t need to be brought up to a burning type temp to be effective. One question though:
Can you compare the actual timing of drinking the liquid vs. smoking jwh-018 infused herbs in regards to how long it takes to hit and how long it lasts ?
I recently purchased a bag of K2 on ebay and found a seed in it that looks identical to a marijuana seed, has anyone else found any marijuana-like seeds in their K2? Just worried because of an upcoming drug test, I appreciate any feedback.
Sr. Jawah has done JWH-018, JWH-019, JWH-398, JWH-073, JWH-250 and CP 55,940 pure (both orally and smoked), as well as vaporized a “fertiliser” called ‘Forest Humus’, which contains CP 47,497 and Sr. Jawah has also smoked herbal incense brand K2.
Sr. Jawah has taken it upon himself to test out the hospitalization claims and creeper reports said to be experienced, and though Jawah respects the fact that chemical substances affect everyone differently, Jawah has come to the conclusion (from experimenting with copious amounts of the above substances) that such bad experiences may be due to reactions ranging from the other herbs contained in certain smoke blends or incenses, ego loss or possibly, it may just be one’s body physiologically overreacting to an unexpected psychological experience, which can be conquered through tolerance build up and/or repeated use starting at small doses and then increasing as time goes by.
Sr. Jawah has found that mixing different synthetic cannabinoids together for consumption at one time has EXTREMELY beneficial affects on chronic pain, insomnia, depression, anxiety, and eating habits.
Sr. Jawah has found that CP 55, 940 is A LOT more potent than any other cannabinoid Sr. Jawah has tried, and when taken in quantities greater than 120mg it is possible to have a unique experience that Sr. Jawah describes as ‘blissful-out-of-body-haze’, where it seems as though reality has taken a lucid dream state, where one feels complete euphoria and confidence, even in uncomfortable situations… meaning you really understand what is implied with the term ‘to be high’. OPERATING HEAVY MACHINERY SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. Although, social interaction is encouraged–as psychic-like occurances may happen between people who have taken similar dosage… almost like one can know what one’s peer is thinking, and feeling. JWH-018 and JWH-073 in high dosages are extremely psychedelic and may even be comparable to the experience of pure MDMA due to the an acute feeling of empathy for others and euphoria and/or a mild dosage of morning glory seeds in terms of visuals.
Also note that in high dosages, ordinary things like speech, language, music, nature, religion, politics, and self-awareness take on interesting forms, and all sort of mesh together as one. CAUTION: (this may sound silly, but for those that it applies to…and you know who you are, or should…) IF ONE IS PREDISPOSED/SENSITVE TO THE SPIRIT WORLD AND/OR SUPERNATURAL BE CAREFUL OF HIGH DOSAGES (i.e. dosages greater than 350mg)!!!!
Through Sr. Jawah’s experience when vaporizing 1 gram of K2 (which contains JWH-018) with 20 mg of CP 55,940 Sr. Jawah was motivated to attend church, clean the house, go to the zoo/nature park, gain an appreciation for previously unappreciated classical music and vocal trance music and garden all in the same day. After that day, Sr. Jawah never had the desire to try a synthetic cannabinoid ever again.
Some things to consider:
Taking orally/ingesting usually takes a little longer (3 to 15 minutes longer) for effects to kick in, but peak effects last longer.
When smoked, effects usually hit immediately after exhaling. Take only one hit and hold it in for as long as possible for best effects, instead of taking multiple hits. Water pipes are not recommended, though they are fun novelty pieces. The trippiest experience Sr. Jawah had was when Sr.Jawah filled an entire bowl with 1g of K2 Summit and smoked it out of gravity water pipe–expereince mimiced morning glory seed experience, except with an extreme body stone.
Synthetic chemicals are most likely safe, but you never know…there may be a reason as to why they don’t exist in nature, so be responsible and be smart!
To Big House:
Aboslutely, yes, I have seen these “look alike” seeds before in blends like KSpice and Serenity Now. I was freaked out as well, but my test went fine. Good luck!
this for all you people that say you had a bad trip off this stuff are utterly stupid or have no idea what a buzz is. you must be agents of the people who wanna criminalize this stuff or freaked out when you got alittle too high for your own good. i’ have personally smoked tons of k-2, serenity now and many other herbal blends. it is possible to get very high on this stuff so if you don’t kno what you are doin then you be careful. it will not kill you at all no matter how much you smoke and about the long term affects of it doesn’t bind to your DNA so your good on the cancer thing. so be your best judge and don’t act like joe face up there and (sudjest as he put it) quit and run to the doctor.
PURE JWH-018 IS VERY POWERFUL. 10MG (.01g) (1/100TH OF A GRAM) IS A VERY LARGE DOSE. THAT MUCH IS LIKE SMOKING A ENTIRE GRAM OF HYDRO. VERY STRONG
A TYPICAL DOSAGE FOR A FIRST TIME USER IS ONLY 2MG. (.002G) (1/500TH OF A GRAM)
PLEASE USE A SCALE, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EYEBALL, YOU WILL END UP IN THE HOSPITAL.
if you do a proper dosage jwh-018 is a drug very similar to marijuana. i really like it, but please, KNOW YOUR DOSAGE.
this stuff is about 50$ a gram but that is equal to about 100 really fucking strong doses so keep that in mind.
Be smart, USE A SCALE
My VERY unscientific measurement for the J8 when I first got it was to measure out a line about 1 MM tall by 1 MM wide by 1/4″ inch long… and sprinkle that atop a bowl of parsley for one pretty punchy dose of 2-3 hits.
For what it’s worth…
I figure that was somewhere around 3 MG or so, but since my scale doesn’t weigh such teensy tiny amounts, I really don’t know — but at least it gave me SOME sort of regulated amount. Like the previous poster wrote, you DON’T want to just eyeball this stuff!! BAAAAD IDEA!!!
OliverKlohzoff, regarding your question, which was:
“Can you compare the actual timing of drinking the liquid vs. smoking jwh-018 infused herbs in regards to how long it takes to hit and how long it lasts ?”
I cannot compare directly, since I have never smoked JWH. After many hours of research, I came to the conclusion that the Everclear infusion and oral ingestion method I described above was not only the best, but really the only method I was comfortable trying. And with huge success, by the way.
So, my only experiences with JWH have been as a thoroughly dissolved, carefully dosed liquid mixed with juice.
However, I can cross-compare oral ingestion of liquid JWH vs. smoking MJ, since I’ve certainly done that plenty of times. Essentially it’s the same as eating MJ vs. smoking MJ. Orally, the effects come on slower than smoking, but last FAR LONGER. But the wait for the stuff to hit your brain after drinking is still not very long at all. Everclear dives right through your stomach lining and into your bloodstream, so really it’s a matter of wating just a few minutes for the active agents to swim up to your brain and attach to the target receptors. I notice the general effects taking shape within about 15 minutes of ingestion. Over the next 45 minutes or so, it is like going up a ramp, until without really thinking about it too much, you realize you are in the grip of a deep, pervasive stone. And then it just radiates through you for a good 3.5 to 4 hours at least.
For me this is more of a once-a-week, Saturday night thing, and I can say that I’m still deeply zonked when I go to bed 4 hours or so after ingestion. Stuff is damn clean, too. I wake up with no trouble, no hangover, no real negative residual to speak of.
Think about the positives to this method:
1) Payoff – You get the deep, long stone from “eating”, with a more gentle, less stressful upslope into the full effect…instead of the short, panicky stone with the steep, quick, and potentially stressful upslope from “smoking”, that’s also gone in an hour.
2) Accuracy – Using a 3mL syringe you can smartly, carefully regulate even very small doses and be assured of a consistent result, indefinitely. I have been able to test the physiological response difference on myself between a 2 mL dose and a 4 mL dose (which comes out to about 5 milligrams JWH vs. 10 milligrams JWH, respectively).
How would I do such a comparison if I wanted to smoke the raw crystal? I would need one of those stupidly expensive scales, and a smoking apparatus, and a perfectly reliable smoking/burning technique to ensure clean, full hits. Bah!
By the way, the results of my comparison were “very stoned” (2 mL) vs. “holy shit this is amazing” (4 mL).
3) Conservation – You are storing a totally dissolved agent in almost 100% grain alcohol, and micro-dosing only exactly the amount of liquid you need with a syringe. No scraping powder around, no getting powder on your fingers or fussing with a tiny baggie, no sprinkling, no accidental over-torching with your lighter, etc. etc. No bullshit. Your stuff lasts longer, and it’s safe in the bottle.
4) Discretion – It’s a bottle of liquor. In your liquor cabinet, fridge, or freezer. Only YOU know what’s special about that bottle. This certainly beats your grandma or cop neighbor or some little kid accidentally finding a tiny baggie containing something reminiscent of cocaine or crack in your house or car or clothing.
Cheers!
Just a note to all,
I work at a toxicology laboratory and there was a big write up in the latest Tox journal. Many labs are developing tests for this and other JWH compounds.
It wont show up in a “regular” drug screen, but since it is on the DEA list of chemicals of concern, tests are being developed so it will show up in a more extensive test (ie post-accident)
I’m not the bad guy here, but I wanted to warn yall.
X1, thank you very, very much. I’m going to do exactly as you recommend. I agree 100% that this stuff is too powerful to try to eyeball a smokable dosage. I take it you’re always doing a 50/50 mix of 018 and 073? Have you ever tried just 018 or 073 by themselves?
I’m sending 10MG of Jwh-073 to an associate who’s going to do some mixing with other current cannabinoids contenders; will look forward to some kind of feedback on it!
Research carries on, and this is good. We learn to discern these substances’ nuances and share this information … I’m curious to hear what anyone may have to say about Jwh-073 since I’ve never researched it myself.
Also, on a personal note, I’ve usually found that mixing meds or entheogens or dope or whatever is usually a BAD idea. I don’t manage conflicted effects well enough to try and somehow “combine” them — but am eager to hear whatever others may have done that works well for THEM.
Oliver-
I never tried either alone. When I was doing all the reading before ever buying anything, I came to understand that people were experiencing 018 as more sativa-like (head high), and 073 as more indica-like (body high).
I came across several suggestions for blending, for a more complex, balanced stone. Some suggested a blend favoring more 073 (to mellow out the intellectual intensity of the 018), while others suggested 50/50.
It was simply more convenient to try straight 50/50, so that’s what I started with. I bought half a gram of each, and dumped them both into 400 mL Everclear, and the rest is history.
By the way I would suggest a wide-mouth sturdy vessel with a spout to do your mixing in, something like a good-size Pyrex glass pitcher, and also a funnel to pour the JWH juice back into your storage bottle. The funnel is a must. Also, just be patient with grinding the powder with your wooden spoon or whatever, and letting it settle, and grinding again. It is really quite easy and relaxing. I mentioned all this before, but the method is so sound and viable that I want to reiterate, THIS IS THE WAY TO GO, PEOPLE. Smoking is for the birds.
Back to the blend….well, I might have considered experimenting with either agent alone, or changing the blend ratio….but my first ingestion result was such an unmitigated success that I haven’t bothered, and don’t intend to tinker further. For me, 50/50 is absolutely right. It is a home run, a very smart AND sensual stone that rewards both creativity AND depravity. I like it. You will have to see what works for you.
Start with 2 mL in about 4 oz of organic orange juice, that’s a good entry point, and work up over several sessions. I’m dancing around the 4 mL line these days, and can’t see going much higher. The results are consistent and satisfactory. I also don’t plan to indulge frequently enough to induce a lasting tolerance.
Do report back if you venture it! Cheers-
X1, I’ve been researching this stuff for 2 straight weeks now. You seem to be one of the most intelligent posters I’ve seen anywhere on the internet. I too have my concerns with the anxiety and freak-out reports of JWH-018 and am more interested in the layed back fun effect of the way JWH-073 is described. I also like the analgesic reports of JWH-073 as I have back problems. I did read a bunch of reports of people mixing 073/018 as 2:1 favoring the 073. I may go that route depending on what kind of supply I can find. Thanks for all the info you’ve provided. Anything more you can elaborate on is greatly appreciated.
man i smoked it and it made my heart feel like it was beatin out of my chest. lol but i like it better than cannabis cause it dont show up in a drug test.
Why do pure JWH-018 and hassle with the dosage issue. Just buy Pulse or Buzz herbal blends. Pulse will get you ripped. When I asked vendor if JWH-018 was present in these blends he gave an honest response. He said nobody but the manufacturer and or a lab analysis can validate whether JWH-018 are present in any blends. However, he strongly believed that no JWH-018 are in these herbal blends/incense. I believe that if JWH-018 is present the dose is very low because you can do a blunt and get ripped without a panic attack. I rather do this than fool around with the pure stuff. I am sure it’s cheaper to buy pure JWH-018 and mix your own blend by trial and error. This is a dangerous way of getting high in my opinion.
I have been reading posts on here for a while. Some people have good effects while others have bad and nearly fatal. I have spoke to the top scientists in the industry regarding JWH-018, 73 and so on. Bottom line, they all recommend not to consume it. They all say its a research chemical. I seen the tox report on 018. The stuff was given to rats in various dosages and some of the rats died! That should tell everyone right there that this stuff is not “like” smoking weed. Its a very different animal and we don’t even know much about it. I also read a report of a guy smoking spice gold to the point where he was smoking 3 grams a day! Imagine that! 3 grams a day???!!! thats like $50 dollars a day, crazy!!! He’s withdrawl symptoms were so bad when he was off the stuff hes heart beat increased, blood pressure went up, no sleep, etc. but as soon as he got back on the stuff he was calm again. The material i am telling you is not an opinion, it is scientific fact, and I can go back and dig up all the information if anyone wants to see! I don’t hate the stuff, I just think that more research should of been done before consumption took place. If weed was legal, no one would even waist their time on this stuff. The crazy thing is there are synthetics for almost every street drug, which is very scary, and its just a matter of time before the masses discover them as well. personally I am looking for an all natural legal solution to this problem. International Oddities has some items like krypto, and it does give a slight buzz and effect but nothing like K2 or the others. There is a product called fusion. its all natural and they claim its just as strong as spice and im so tempted to buy it but its 50 bucks! if it works I would be hooked! I would love if isomeone could try this product and review it. [Synch: No vendor links!] if anyone wants to know which synthetics are good check these links out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LegalHighReviews
http://www.youtube.com/user/Justintm7187
God bless!
- J
Hey J, I read your well thought out comment. It’s very hard not to agree with your points since they are based on factual data. I have ordered Fusion over the Internet for $45.00. I will let you know the effect, taste, and quality of the product this week. I also ordered Pulse, Buzz, Gonjah, Ultra Chronic, Nitro, Dank, On’o Budz, and a sample pack of DA Kind (which is a new blend). Also, the Blonde Stashish from International Oddities. From what I got from looking at reviews on YouTube, Blonde Stashish is one of the very few products at IO that gives the real effect. I think 1/2 oz is like $35 plus $10 shipping. Also, I spoke with the owners of 2 large website distributors of Pulse and Buzz who buy their products in Europe in large quantities. They asked the people in Europe if the products Pulse and Buzz contained JWH-018. The European replies are always “what is in the products is what’s listed on the package label.” So, it’s hard to validate their statement unless you get independent lab analysis. The distributors also warned me against purchasing JWH-018 off the Internet (unless you personally know the folks) and not to smoke it. They pretty much said what I said in my earlier post about playing the dangerous game of trying to figure out the right percentage of JWH-018 to use in home herbal blends. I believe that if JWH-018 is present in Buzz and Pulse the percentage is very low because I saw MisterBenson and his buddy on YouTube smoke a blunt. They were high, but not panicky or freaked out like those doing pure JHW-018. So far as the guy who was doing 3grams of Spice a day x 7 days = 21grams. That’s almost an ounce a week. I think you would have serious addiction problems with any drug doing it that much in a week. I think the bottomline is not to do pure JWH-018 in large quantities in one smoking session, period! That’s why Mickey Mouse aka lab rat is dead!
Thanks for your investment Willie! I think everyone can benefit from your reviews of those products!!!!! Please let me know asap about fusion and other blends!!!
-J
Ok J, I decided to spend the money because I get sick of some folks bashing herbal blends saying they don’t work. I have been smoking weed for 20 years and decided to quit a month ago. I am also looking for a natural solution eventhough we will never know whether chemicals are present without lab analysis. I also ordered other blends that have been negatively blasted on YouTube reviews as being nothing. Total Impact, Aztec Gold, Kanna, and Herbal Whoaa. Before I order any product I let vendor know that I am looking for an all natural alternative smoke that works. They could be lying, but as least I got them to admit that no unlisted chemicals are in them. We shall see!
Willie, I appreciate your effort so much! Once you get all the products in, please review them asap once you are finished I will send you a couple dollars via paypal. You will save me and a lot of other people money if you provide honest reviews! I don’t mind tipping you!
Hey J, no problem. As information, I had ordered 3 grams of the Tribal Warrior Ultimate herbal blend, but I cancelled the order because the vendor would not talk with me when I asked if they knew if JWH-018 is in the herbal blend. Well, not so much that they wouldn’t talk with me about the JWH-018 issue, but they wouldn’t discuss what ingredients are clearly labelled on the package. None of the ingredients they list will get you blasted like some reviewers say when testing this blend. I think it is the replacement or new and improved version of Spice Diamond. I begged the vendor through several emails to clarify if in fact the following ingredients are in this blend. They refused to discuss the matter and they refused to give me my money back until I threatened to report them. Here are the ingredients. Bare in mind that one of the ingredients has been documented in multiple clinical research studies to cause cancer:
Tribal Warrior Ultimate Herbal blend
Ingredients listed are:
> Essential oils (corn starch) (absorbent/chelating agent)
> Finely ground Damiana leaves and twigs
> Cocamide DEA
> Hydrogenated castor oil (Emollient)
> Strawberry, blueberry and cherry essence
> Phenoxyethanol (preservative)
> Panthenol (preservative)
> cl 77289 (colour)
> cl 77891 (colour)
> cl 19140 (colour)
> cl 47005 (colour)
> cl 42090 (colour)
It is the Cocamide DEA that has been known to cause cancer. As a matter of fact this particular ingredient was banned from cigarettes. I can’t do that to my body. Just say No! I will give you a review on the other blends when they are delivered.
Willie, make me. A list of the products u want to buy and sample and I will tell u which ones are all natural. There are very few. Fusion is all natural
Okay J, here is my list. Some I have already mentioned:
International Oddities:
Krypto
Dro
Blueberry Bud
Albino Rhino
Black Widow
Ahia Bud
Black O
Skyscraper
Panama Gold
Other varieties:
O’no Budz
Ultra Chronic
Fusion
Sence
Herbal Whoaa
Blueberry Haze
Frost
Aztec Midnight Wind
Utopia Extreme
Demon Herbal smoke
Magma
Hawaiian Havest Blend
Total Impact
Dank
Klip Dagga
Nitro
Aztec Gold
Deliverance
High Octane
Dazed
Soma
Red Leaf
Buzz
Pulse
Gonjah
When I get home from work I will research all of these.
Willie, if you can just give me the websites you are getting this stuff from , I could save you alot of trouble. I will let you know right now that everything from International Oddities is ok to smoke unless they say otherwise. The same goes for [Synch: Stop posting vendor links or I'll murder you via the Internet...] which sells fusion and alot of the other blends in your list. If you buy everything from that list im thinking your bill will be a good few hundred dollars. Anything that says “not for human consumption” such as Gonjah of course contains synthetics. If you are dealing with companies in the USA they must say not for human consumption. from what I have seen the companies that sell stuff that is ok will call their product a “tobacco alternative” The easiest thing to do is tell the company that you intend to buy their product and have it analyzed at a lab for synthetics and you would like to know up front what it contains. They will take you very seriously and let you know. Anyway, give me the list of websites that you get all these products from and I will quicky let you know what the deal is. Like i was saying IO products are ok, and the company selling fusion appears to be ok as well. I’m really looking forward to your review on fusion. I think they do rush shipping on that product as well.
also, i wouldn’t buy any products from europe, because they will tell you that spice gold is natural and ok to smoke when its not…
Sincerely,
J
Wow J, you have really done a great job with your research. I kind of suspected that when the herbal blend says not for human consumption it’s a give away that something has been added to the herbs. Here is some interesting information for you. While compiling my extensive list I went to at least 20 websites to get prices for each of the items on my list. I found that several of the websites which includes herbal-smoke site has most of these herbal blends on my list. I went to EazySmoke site and found the rest of my items (except the sence, Buzz, Pulse, and Gonjah). I spoke with a cute sounding girl in customer services. We had a good conversation and the subject got on herbal blends on the Internet. How about she told me EazySmoke owns 20 of the herbal blend websites including the Herbal-Smoke site. EazySmoke’s Fusion is $49.95 with free shipping. Herbal-Smoke’s Fusion is $55.00. Other than the Fusion, I am also going to get from EazySmoke on my wish list is Magma, Hardcore, and High Octane. I know for a fact as you said that all of the herbal blends from Herbal-Smoke and EazySmoke are free of chemicals. The clerk said Magma and High Octane is as good as, if not better than Fusion. J, it has been a pleasure swimming through the murky sea of free-chemical herbal blends. At least we have identified sites that carries these products. As always, we shall see. Thanks!
Willie,
Good to know. about easysmoke. I thought herbal-smoke was their own entity, however this isn’t the case. Easy smoke does appear to sell spice gold, but they are not currently selling it. There is another website selling magma xxx which they claim is stronger then magma! [Synch: For fuck's sake!] Yeah, I’m thinking this site easy smoke has the top products. I mean their stuff costs just as much as the synthetic ones. They also have a combo pack * 1 – Blaze Herbal Smoke – 1/8 Ounce (3.5 grams)
* 1 – Fusion – 1/8 Ounce (3.5 grams)
* 1 – Magma – 3 Grams
* 1 – HARD CORE – 3 Grams
for like $186
All of the products from the combo pack seem to be very potent and the best! Other then Fusion, i would be very interested in Hard core, as it is the most expensive out of all the products they sell. The girl is probably right. BTW, make sure you become a member of their site so you get free shipping. Also ask her if you can get free product if you do reviews on youtube. I think alot of people don’t even know about this site! Don’t forget I will tip you via paypal after you do the reviews!
Hey J, your link to the site in your comment is going to be vaporized by Synch (lol). I will go ahead and order the Hard Core tonight and give you a straight up honest review. I am not going to order the Hardcore XXX because it’s $59.95 for 3 grams. If we can find a natural herbal blend that is as good as or better than the synthesized herbal blends on the market it will be worth paying the extra money. I stop smoking weed (20 years) last month after I found out my trusted dealer of 5 years was spraying the weed with windex aka ammonia. For all those on here who say they would rather do the real MJ, be careful because you don’t know what’s in it. Folks are trying to make a dollar. They don’t care if you are squeaky clean inside!
willie, my email is internetconsultant2009@gmail.com send me an email and we’ll keep in touch bro! thats crazy with the windex. I kinda figured something was going on because the last time i indulged things just didn’t feel right.
[Link to study on withdrawal from "Spice Gold"]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719097/
The next person to post a link to a vendor website will be banned from commenting. Srsly.
OliverKlohzoff: I appreciate the concern, but they seem to be different people.
I’m going to clean up the last few replies…
I think the biggest concern i have is that most people make there incense with ACETONE!?!?! Do you really want to be smoking that shit? I use Kind Incense its way better and i can just about guarantee its the safest blend. no acetone!!! I cant tell you what they do use bc you wouldnt believe me anyway. I LOVE YOU JWH!!
Since you’re obviously no chemist, your guarantee means little. Acetone evaporates. No one smokes any acetone.
your right im def no where near chemist status. Im just a stoner who likes money. i helped start up a couple diff blends. im just saying man my first couple acetone/chemical blends were horrible. i know most of it evap’s but i know all of it wont. think about it you soak the herbs in a nasty chemical. i dont think the JWH is the part to worry about. no chemicals. thats prolly y the FDE is all over this shit. because all you people think u need a chemical to break down JWH… Like i said im no where near a chemist but i swear on my life you can do this without chem. Im not going to tell you wat it is because im making too much money.
josh iwould love to hear about how to mix these blends. i ordered 1 gram of jwh–018. i need to know the best herbs to use and the best way to aply the jwh. I will pay you for this info. thank you. my email is vincent-mendieta87@hotmail.com
josh, take some of that money you’re making and buy some common sense.
Any decent blend tek will tell you how to properly aerate/ventilate the herb so that the acetone evaporates. Completely. It’s a similar concept to cleaning the cutting board in your kitchen by wiping it down with vinegar. The vegetables you chop on your cutting board the next day aren’t going to taste like vinegar. Guess why, josh.
Back to some of the comments of the poster J…I don’t get the selective fear-mongering about JWH. Rats died? OK, how much were they given? Can you link to, or quote with strong references, that particular study? It would be helpful to understand the dosage to body mass relationship, and extrapolate to humans…knowing full well all the time that rats and humans aren’t exactly cross-compatible species.
It bothers me when people fear-monger about JWH while singing the praises of this or that “all natural” blend. The ingredients of Fusion aren’t even FULLY disclosed. At the end of the list of Fusion ingredients, you find something interesting. Here’s the deal:
Ingredients: Includes Canavalia rosea, Nelumbo nuifera, leonotis leonurus, Pedicularis densiflora, Pedicularis centranthera, Scutellaria lateriflora , Maconha Brava, Althea officinalis, Trifolium pratense, Sceletium tortuosum, Leonurus cardiaca , Lenotis nepetifolia, Alepidea amatymbica resin in addition to other botanical and other herbal extracts.
Notice that last part….in addition to…this other stuff that we’re not going to tell you what it is….just trust us. BUY NOW!!! Truth is, you don’t know what those other “extracts” are. Maybe if you gave enough of them, whatever they are, to rats, they would die.
I also suspect that anyone with a serious investment in the blend scene would just hate, hate, hate to have their customers bled away by entities selling direct-to-consumer, A-grade synthetic cannabinoids. I mean, why bother with all these innocuous, benign, time- and money-wasting botanicals and herbals when you can just get to the point, and get something you can easily dose and regulate yourself, that tweaks your brain receptors in just the right way with no bullshit? So you see why it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously who fear-mongers in a needlessly provocative manner about rats dying from JWH and then twaddles on and on about the glories of this or that exotic blend of sugar-coated leaves and twigs.
Given the situation that the price of JWH-018 is down to around $50/gram now… who needs to buy anything ILLEGAL for quite a bit of the same effect?
And as cheap as it is… who would quibble if their homebrew Spice-like concoction isn’t as potent as it absolutely possibly could be? A bottle of Everclear costs me $17, and with that I can take 3 grams of J8, let it soak/dry in 60 or so grams of parsley (very cheap at Sam’s Club)… and have enough resulting blend to durn near last me a LIFETIME!
A single pinch hit a few times a week will last me a LONG time… and leaves enough for sharing with others. Health risks seem minimal, and tolerance stays at a level that one hit is all I need or want for a couple hours worth of buzztime.
So the bottom line is — why buy the commercial blends — with their questionable content — when making your own is so cheap and simple?
Or why bother with herbs AT ALL, when a JWH juice cocktail is even cheaper and simpler?
By the way, I gave some to a rat. It died. Autopsy report: killer orgasm.
You are funny x1. When i get time i will dig up the report on the stuff about dead rats. If you give a rat THC will it die? i think not
x1: Waste of a rat.
Ironically, if you killed a lot more of them, they would have been worth it. Statistical significance FTW.
J: the stuff about the male rats dying is in this actual post. See the “Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay” heading above.
J:
If you give a rat enough THC….yes, it will die.
THC Wiki excerpt:
Information about THC’s toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol#Toxicity
And from the JWH assays described at the top, it seems to me, if I’m reading them right, and if they indeed turn out to be from a credible source, or are at least eventually vindicated by comparable results from non-anonymous, credible sources…..that it would take a truly massive dosage of JWH in a human to induce death through respiratory failure.
And out of all the giant pile of ridiculous sob stories on the internet from people who stupidly didn’t carefully measure and ration their JWH, but instead decided to eyeball, and ballpark, and toke this extraordinarily potent research chemical with devil-may-care casual obliviousness…..and then had a really bad time, and in some cases got to ride on the wahmbulance to the emergency daycare….I haven’t come across one death. Have you?
I have read reports of “difficulty breathing” from some people who had absolutely no idea how much they had smoked, since they guesstimated their ration, or went back and took additional tokes when they shouldn’t have, or both. Hard to tell if that’s part of the psychological freakout, or a real physical anomaly. This stuff could be dangerous to your respiration at very high ingestion amounts. But so far I haven’t seen anything that makes JWH more “dangerous”, in a generic sense, than THC. What I have seen is an AWFUL LOT of typical human stupidity and lack of respect for the chemical’s potency. Let’s not demonize the substance itself until we can at least demarcate the HSQ*.
*Human Stupidity Quotient
X1: Got my JWH-018 and JWH-073 in yesterday. Also got my bottle of 190 proof Everclear and 500ml glass measuring cup. Just waiting on that mg scale to come in off eBay(should be today) and and I’ll be going the “X1″ route of mix and enjoy.
100% agree, no need to disolve/spray/smoke.
And by the way, Josh’s secret method of disolve/apply is probably just Everclear.
[Synch: This commenter may be mistaken about the dosage suggested, evolved independently of life as we know it, or is merely insane]
To x1,
I completely agree with you. The largest dosage of JWH-018 that Jawah has taken is ~400mg and nothing bad happened to him in terms of his respiration. As a matter of fact Jawah didn’t notice any changes in his breathing. The only “downside” was he couldn’t really walk right (was very wobbly and I…I mean HE couldn’t really tell how fast or slow he was moving..lol) and talking seemed like an uneeded chore (not because he couldn’t talk, but because in his mind he thought that we as a human race have existed long enough to where we should be able to understand each others feelings and body language…lol…it was like he had an extreme desire to “evolve” in terms of communication). And on top of that, the effects wore off after ~10h, with little after effects other than a feeling of rejuvination. Jawah has close to 2 grams left, since he ordered from an online source that only charges $45/g.
Believe Jawah… the amount you would have to take in order to even come close to death would probably be in the KILOgrams, not mg. Like when taking MJ, there’s a point where you just can’t get any higher and taking more just becomes pointless, unless you’re trying to force yourself into a full 8hr sleepy-time.
Jawah is no scientist, but Jawah is also not a little b*** rat that eats pellets and digs dirt holes for a living.
400mg in one dose ????? WHAT ??????
People are reporting problems at 10mg. Surely 400mg’s of JWH-018 in one dose would = a hospital visit.
PLEASE !!! Nobody out here read above and think about taking a dose anywhere near that.
X1: Got my scale in today and did the 2:1 073/018 mix(.67mg’s 073/.33mg’s 018). I bought a 1 Liter bottle of Everclear. Therefore, I thought I might as well use 500ML with 1 gram of product, yeilding a 2mg per ml mix. That way the 1 Liter bottle would work out for 2 exact batches. I also figured the extra 100ml’s of Everclear would aid in the dissolving of the JWH.
The JWH dissolved fairly well in the Everclear. About 80% dissolved in the first couple minutes. 10 more minutes and another 10% dissolved. Another hour of occasionally stirring and the last 10% dissolved.
X1, did some of your Everclear evaporate during the time it took to mix ? I think I lost about 20ml’s of Everclear through evaporation.
I plan on trying out the mix tomorrow.
JaWaH:
Did you mean perhaps 40 mg, rather than 400?
Even 40 mg would be FAR MORE than anyone should ever need, I would think. You would have to stack tolerance upon tolerance upon tolerance, and then sprinkle a little batshit insanity on top, to ever require such a dose. I don’t think I would publicly recommend anyone trying more than 10 mg, although I’m sure the veteran high flyers would likely have no trouble soaring a bit above 10.
Anyway, it’s good to have a report from a megadose “survivor” about negligible impact on respiration. But let’s avoid any further such experiments, and leave deep field toxicology testing to the rats!
Oliver:
I didn’t lose nearly so much to evaporation, but I really didn’t leave it out. I did all my stirring and crushing in one swoop of about 20 minutes or so, then put the cap on the bottle and stowed her away in the fridge. I really didn’t let it sit and dissolve on its own. I mean, the great lot of it dissolved straightaway, and then I spent some time mashing around trying to crumble up the last little bit on the bottom with my implement. So it didn’t get much chance to dissolve. Shouldn’t matter too much for you, so long as you’ve visually confirmed by closely eyeballing the liquid, holding it up to a bright light, confirming you see absolutely no specks or flakes anywhere in the medium. So long as your ratios were sound to start with, your individual dispensation should still hold when you ration out by the milliliter. You should have a liquid that looks clear close up, but ever so slightly pale yellow from a distance. This is why a white wine bottle w/ screwcap works so well as a cover. From 6 ft. away you’d never know it wasn’t really Pinot Grigio!
So, you’ll be consuming slightly more Everclear in a ration than I am, but at less than 5 milliters for initial experiment, I don’t think you’ll accidentally be getting drunk anytime soon.
By the way, did you get a syringe? I didn’t see that in your list. How are you planning to dose that out?
Where did you find a 1 L bottle of E? I thought they only came in 750 mL and 1.75 L. That IS handy.
Cheers, happy testing. And THANKS for being smart about it! Going this route you have virtually assured yourself of an entirely relaxed and manageable experiment. At this point I can only adamantly stress the necessity of carefully measuring your first milliliter ration, which I’m assuming will be in the 2 to 2.5 milliliter range.
My local liquor store had Everclear in 750ml, 1 Liter and 1.5L bottles.
My liquid looks 100% clear. I took an empty 1 Liter clear rum bottle(just like the Everclear bottle), cleaned it out and removed the labels. I need a yellow smiley face sticker to put on it
I have plenty of 1ml insulin syringes because of a diabetic pet. I have removed the needles before and used them to suck up flea medication and apply to animals. I will do the same thing for my happy drink. I’m trying to come up with a clever name for it. Any ideas ?
I guess it depends on the juice or mixer. I’ve been going with Uncle Matt’s organic orange juice. Although I’m not adding any grenadine, I’ve taken to calling her a “Bonsai Sunrise”.
I mean FOUR HUNDRED MILLIGRAMS, not 40. And Jawah is not insane, he just likes taking psychedelic experiences to their extremeties and is an adrenaline junkie. If anyone has skype, Jawah can make arrangements to show you him taking 400mg orally and then you may watch the experience as long as you desire. This is why it confuses me as to why people are going to the hospital. I don’t think fear and paranoia are reasons enough to call the wops unless you are having thoughts of dangering yourself or others…none of which happened at the 4-0-0 mg dosage. Jawah just had trippy silly thoughts, trouble staying still and walking, and music and the news sounded supernatural and AMAZING. In the onset (first min to ~12min), Jawah couldn’t really move…felt a cementing stone in body (but I could still move if I wanted to, I just couldn’t tell how fast or slow I was moving…my time and force perception were practically non-existent [THIS MIGHT FREAK OUT PEOPLE UNEXPERIENCED IN OTHER PSYCHEDELICS like shrooms or salvia divinorum, but for the experienced psy-user these are just a part of the fun]), but after about 15min Jawah could function normally (besides the wobbling and giddiness/random twitches).
The main reason I wasn’t afraid to take that much was because I figured JWH-018 is said to be four to five times more potent than THC. With that being known, as well as knowing that a medium dose of THC (0.03 mg/kg = 2.1 mg in a 70 kg individual) dissolved in alcohol is roughly equivalent to smoking approximately 1/2 of a marijuana cigarette, or “joint”. So Jawah thought, how many half joints can a person take to the head before having to go to the hospital, multiplied by 5?
And after pondering on that for about 5 seconds and thinking about the math in Jawah’s head, Jawah realized, “what a stupid f***ing question! This is gonna be awesome! Bottoms up…”
And boy was Jawah right
JaWaH, I would find the skype viewing to be very educational. When do you plan to show the demonstration?
I’d like to see this too. How about by Yahoo ID on webcam ?
I agree with Oliver, yahoo would be cool to. JaWaH, please be careful. Don’t make a crazy educational presentation just to get an A+! We believe you.
Does Jawah always warp in and out of referring to himself in the third person? Because when Jawah sometimes refers to himself in the third person, it makes non-Jawahs wonder if perhaps Jawah has produced in himself a lingering self-dissociation and ego detachment from overzealous psychedelic indulgence, and perhaps Jawah would like to float back down to terra firm until at least such time as Jawah can consistently refer to himself in the first person, assuring non-Jawahs around him that he is, in fact, not loco.
J, don’t encourage him. This is outlier behavior, but you know this exceptional kind of gross abuse is exactly the sort of thing that gets what seems to be a relatively harmless substance banned. This is the kind of absurd human behavior I was talking about, which gives a substance a bad name. Watching some loco twitch and bug out via Skype after the loco willingly consumes a ridiculous amount of something that will inebriate sufficiently at a fraction of that….well, that’s just a whole mess of arrogant stupid.
Not to mention, that is just a hellish waste of good RC. Jawah, stop wasting Daddy’s trust fund.
I agree with x1. Don’t do it. I’m NOT going to watch.
I want to try the everclear thing, but I would also0 know how to mix into an herb or a blend. i love smoking. can sombody please tell me or reffer me to someone who can? -please-
x1,
That is of course your opinion. What I think of as “gross abuse” probably differs from your perception of it. What matters is whether or not high dosages of jwh-018 would be suicide for a human being. The answer to that question is, “we don’t know”, but Jawah is here to tell you that 400mg is safe, and so he is a living testament to something you would be too cautious to try out yourself. When you learn for yourself that this substance is more help than harm in higher doses, you will thank him.
This substance has been in existence long enough for us to have the right to know its effects. Once the knowledge of how to make this chemical was conceieved, it became fair game and Jawah is not going to wait on the goveez to illegalize this when it obviously is beneficial and was created solely for our benefit. You live in a world where you let people restrict your ability to consume something that God made for you to consume in whatever amount you desire, as well as being given the ability to create (which has been exemplified by Professor Huffman!), while being fed poisons like alcohol and nicotine and money so that these men you give power to can maintain their evil hold and destroy this world as swiftly as possible.
Does death exist? Yes. Should we let it rule our lives? No.
If you really cared about the health effects of jwh outside of the experience it gives you, you wouldn’t be doing it in the first place. We barely understand the way our bodies work, and based on what we do know, the metabolism of these chemicals have a potential for being cancerogenic and may stupify you to the point where you can’t tell the rate at which you breathe. Does this mean we should stop enjoying our experiences and never touch it again? Hell no. If a man can create a chemical that doesn’t exist in nature and make it commune with nature in a positive way, I see a large hope for another man or woman to be instrumental in creating a cure for scare tools like cancer and disease. Why do drugs (especially one that was created by a human being and has no human tests available?) at all if you value your health so much? You’re not fooling anyone.
If you don’t find 400mg enjoyable, then don’t do it. If Jawah finds 400mg enjoyable, then he will do it. Simple as that.
I’ll post my email as soon as I change computers.
Like I said before, this stuff is dangerious. Rats have died from this stuff. We could go on and on about this and that.
ive heard water can be used. is this true??
Jawah,
You can do whatever you want, and godspeed on your journey of light and truth. Or whatever.
I can only speak for myself…I don’t feed on “poisons”, as you say, like alcohol and nicotine and money. In fact, I think chomping 400mg of JWH is a fucking hell all waste of money.
I think you are selectively invoking Huffman’s name to your cause. Huffman’s on record saying “DO NOT CONSUME.” He certainly wouldn’t advocate what you’re doing, no matter how colorfully you cloak it in truth-questing, freedom-fighter rhetoric.
There is this thing called moderation, which I am encouraging, especially since most who come across a forum like this will be getting their feet wet for the first time with a curious synthetic substance. The information you provided is helpful. Now we know there is at least one human who, in the name of truth, justice, and beauty, gobbled up way more JWH than ever necessary, and fortunately did not suffer a respiratory failure.
But that is probably the limit of your helpfulness. Certainly watching you twitch on Skype moves from educational to macabre. But….if it is “fun” for you….
Meanwhile, as for the world we live in, and dark government forces and whatnot….yes, I have already in this thread suggested a method for acquiring, liquefying, and storing a lifetime supply of JWH as a safeguard against rampaging bureaucracies. Perhaps a combination of overt political activism and discreet preparation and consumption is more helpful than letting kids watch us twitch and drool on live streaming video.
And J…once again….rats have also died from THC. Continually invoking the rats of doom….I don’t know…is that helpful?
Will JWH-018 show on a urinalysis? I’m active duty military. What type of test does the DoD use to screen personel, and what does it screen for? I’ve heard conflicting reports. Don’t let them take my JWH-018!
kushy, NO………. JWH is not soluable in water. JWH is soluable in ethanol(Everclear) and acetone(pure 100% fingernail polish remover). It is probably soluable in other nasty things but in water it is not.
Jerry, there is no test for JWH. If you are US military, the DoD does not test you for it. This is because there is no test for it. It is an uncontrolled, unscheduled substance in the USA. Since JWH is chemically unrelated to THC (it is a totally different molecular animal), and not a cannabis derivative, you are fine. JWH is on the DEA “drugs of concern” list. This means it may in the future achieve scheduled (banned) status if there is enough sensationalism and negative exposure…for instance if a Senator’s son makes a video of himself tweaking out on an immoderate dosage.
In the meantime, piss away. You’re safe.
Hey, regarding the military I pulled up this info:
U.S. Army #
The U.S. Army has instituted a policy banning spice. At least one person at Fort Bragg, NC was caught with a positive urinalysis. A visitor writes that Spice has not shown up in urinalyses conducted at Fort Benning by the Army as of June 2009. (unconfirmed) (thanks p,r) (last updated Jan 28, 2010)
U.S. Air Force #
Spice is prohibited at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas (see Stars and Stripes).
U.S. Marines #
The Marines have banned Spice and the component chemicals entirely. The first Marine ban that we know of began on Sept 10 2008, at US Marine Bases in Japan by Marine Corps Bases Japan Order 5355.1 (see article).
U. S. Navy #
According to one person, Spice products are considered completely prohibited in the U.S. Navy and that at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida a number of airpeople have been discharged for violating the rule against using Spice. (unconfirmed) (thanks t) (last updated Oct 1 2009)
I wouldn’t mess with the stuff if you are in the military!
J:
I’m not sure that info is legit. Those look more like Erowid rumors. I haven’t been able to find any credible confirmation that any branch of the US military has banned anything to do with any JWH-type product or substance.
I did find this very intriguing thread:
http://87.251.61.231/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
Looks fairly current, last post on Feb. 22 and it’s a big negative on any real testing. Perhaps there is an internal propaganda campaign to try to get military personnel not to indulge…but I don’t see anywhere any confirmation of actual legit testing that catches anyone. Did you find any credible report of anyone who has positive tested and been booted or punished? I see that last thing in your US Navy example says “unconfirmed”.
Just be careful,..-J
Got a chance to try my 018/073 Everclear mix today. I gotta say, it works well but really isn’t for me. I guess I tend to already think and micro-manage everything in my head too much to begin with. My mind just runs and trys too hard.
I started off with a 1.5ml dosage in a 1/4 glass of Mt. Dew. You could not taste it at all. With my mix being 2mg’s per ml, my total dosage was 3mg’s. It took 30-45 minutes for the effect to begin. At the 30-45 minute mark, the first thing that hit was the munchies ! By the 1 hour mark, it was working pretty good. For me, it tends to make me think too hard. I found I had a hard time reading things on the internet and comprehending them without trying really hard to think things out. I had a customer come into my business and I had a hard time remembering basic details…….. LOL. I didn’t really enjoy my mind racing although I did find some things more funny.
Now I’m trying to figure out what to do with a bunch of this stuff left over. I’ve got a 500ML Everclear mix that is probalby good for 250 doses ! Then I have another .66 grams of 018 and 1.33 grams of 073.
sorry to hear that man.. your better off using fusion!!!!
Oliver are you saying you chose to try this for the first time while at work? I don’t think that would be such fun.
The first time I did it was exactly like the first time I ever smoked MJ…a little bit surprising and overwhelming….but ultimately a very classic analog experience, complete with ferocious snack munchdown at about the 2.5 hour stage.
Yeah, I would say if the mind can’t be calmed, and the body is not in a recreational place or state….maybe not ideal set/setting for initial discovery.
I’m trying to locate a legitimate online source of jwh-018 in the US but it is proving extremely difficult since none of the discussion forums I have come across allow vendor discussion. I understand that is the case for this site as well, but could someone at least provide me some hints/tips on how to find and select a reliable source that isn’t going to simply take my payment and disappear, or worse send me some other dangerous chemical that isn’t in fact jwh-018? I tried one of these herbal blends with jwh-018 awhile ago and really enjoyed the high it produced but would prefer to avoid smoking it and am interested in trying the method discussed here involving dissolving it in everclear. Thanks!
It doesn’t seem by the report that it is any more toxic than good old MJ which pretty mild as far as all the toxic crap in the world that we eat and breathe everyday.
bob:
If you are looking for a reliable US source for certain researchchemicalz then make sure you do a good, specific google search and hopefully you will stumble upon a site that does indeed offer such researchchemicalz in the US. I can’t imagine it would be too hard to find the researchchemicalz you seek if you simply do the proper search for whatever researchchemicalz you are looking for.
If you are searching a reliable source that may not be US based but is still reliable, then once again I encourage you to do a proper google search, and hopefully you will find a place that allows you to buythemg . Surely there is at least one international provider that would let people buythemg if they are curious.
Good luck
LOL X1, I got researchchemicalz too, should come up in a google search.
And yes I was at work but it’s my own place of business, I own it. Saturday afternoons are pretty much dead, nothing going on. I thought it would be a good time to give it a try. I tried even leaning back and closing my eyes, just couldn’t make myself relax, really sends your mind into overdrive. Does it do that to you too ?
I wouldn’t mind trying it again except for the fact that it lasts so damn long. For me, the full affects took an hour to hit and lasted 3-4 hours.
Oliver:
No, I don’t get overdrive brain. I get ganja-esque, well-toasted brain. I mean, it’s a perfect home run for my physiology.
Perhaps I can attempt some totally unscientific observation and speculation with regard to your experience.
You mentioned Mountain Dew as your drink medium. Half a cup? Was it regular Mt Dew, i.e. not diet or any other variant? I believe Mt Dew is heavily caffeinated. Even a little bit might get a brain that has been sensitized by new, novel chemical agents racing a bit. Not to mention, quite frankly Mt Dew has a bunch of other crap in it, most of it not so good.
You might consider going with straight 100% fruit juice next time.
Next unscientific speculation: ratio. You tilted more heavily to the 073, 2:1. Perhaps you experienced a JWH clash. Perhaps the 018 and its sativa-like brain high was fighting for traction against the heavier saturation of the indica-like 073 body high. Perhaps, in your particular neuro-pipes, 018 likes more of a fair fight, and protests loudly when outnumbered by 073.
You might think this a bizarre speculation…but I was struck by your comment about getting hungry so soon, within 45 minutes of onset. That doesn’t sit well. It makes me think that in YOUR system, 073 hits harder and causes a bit of thrashing. I am generally delineating 073 as much heavier on the body, including with respect to appetite.
Of course it’s possible you didn’t eat a full, well-balanced meal beforehand…which would be a no-no. Have a nice bit of pasta and veg at least an hour before liftoff.
You might consider a small test 50/50 sub-batch consisting of 125mg 018 and 125mg 073 dissolved in 100mL Everclear. Sounds like you have enough of all materials left over to give it a go. It would be a shame not to know if ratio really is the key.
There’s the possibility, too, that you took what might be considered a not-quite-breakthrough dose…meaning you took just enough to agitate, but not quite enough to push all the way over the hill to full, toasty burn, at which point the mind leaves off with its worrying and just enjoys the ride.
For me, there is a bit of mental fidgeting, and also increase in body heat, during that first 45-minute upslope…but all of that burns off in the grip of the full bake and it’s a good 3+ hours of kite-flying after that.
So, at the end of analysis, you did accumulate a little batch of variables different from my method and practice. Compared to me, you had:
1. Different 018-073 ratio (yours was 2:1, 073 to 018….mine was 1:1)
2. Higher Everclear-to-JWH ratio in liquid JWH preparation
3. Lower initial test dosage (3mg into your system, if I figured right, vs. 5mg for my first test)
4. Caffeine and funky chemical soda as drink substrate (vs. my organic fruit juice)
5. Work/business setting, replete with customer
And probably other differences that I can’t think of. Also I tend only to test at night, and kill most lights and noises. If you’re prone to get agitated by external stimuli, that might be another adjustment to consider.
Shame if you went through all this research and money and don’t find the right balance. But it’s supposed to be fun. No point in doing this if cost exceeds benefit. Do report back if you take another plunge.
JWH-018 will not cause a positive urine test for THC, I have tested this.
I felt its necessary for someone to talk about what to do in case of an overdose. A while back, I had a bad panic attack from using too much. From my experience the first thing I did was drink plenty of water. If you are driving a car try to find a close friend or relitive close by. You don’t want to drive too far. Try to minimize your driving. It is very dangerious to drive if you OD on this stuff. Try not to panic as your heart rate will prolly go up. Your body temp will prolly drop and you’l need a blanket to keep warm. Personally I drank some milk and drank a fruit smooothy. You want to get some food in your stomach I think. This was just my experience. I’m not telling anywone to do what I did. I’m just explaining what helped me overcome my adverse experience. Because most people take this stuff litely. I think its very important to educate people on how to prepare and possible options on what to do in an overdose situation. Because a person in the wrong place at the wrong time on an OD of this could easily die! If an elderly person OD’s on this stuff they could die from a heart attack from rapid heart rate. This stuff is no joke!
I pity the elderly person who has decided, stupidly, to smoke an unmeasured amount of any strange chemical.
BTW, elderly people can also have a heart attack from having sex. And many other things.
Bottom line: PRECISELY MEASURE YOUR DOSE, whether smoking or diluting in a solvent. If you cannot obtain or afford the highly sensitive measuring device needed to measure a crystalline solid at the single milligram level, then please STRONGLY CONSIDER the non-smoking, liquid dilution method found in this thread.
Keep it under 10 mg for starters. Virtually every single panic attack horror story on the internet is from some yokel who decided to “guesstimate” their intake, with their eyeballs. You can’t guesstimate milligrams of fine grain powder with your eyeballs. FAIL. BAD FAIL. Don’t be stupid.
X1 I’m talking about smokable products like spice. The jwh is already measured and you can OD on this!
You weren’t specific. And since this is a JWH thread, and not a Spice thread, naturally I assumed…. There wasn’t anything in your post that made it clear you were talking about OD’ing on an herbal blend. How did you manage to do that, by the way?
Anyway, you can OD on anything. Caffeine…oxygen….mustard. Stop being hysterical. The best advice you gave was for people to lie down and have some juice.
J, you need to lie down and have some juice. Sometimes the ominous tone of your posts, and the constant harping on the “dark side” of JWH, (as opposed to Fusion, which is wonderful and miraculous and has no negatives, right?), makes it sound like you are suffering from chronic Spice panic attack flashbacks.
Lie down. Have some juice.
This is probably the main reason why people shouldn’t touch any blend crap anyway. Just buy the raw active chemical and control your own dosage. The more variables you control at home, the better.
I may not have the most precise method of using JWH-018… but what I do is simple and effective.
One gram of j8 is put in one cup of Everclear and stirred well, allowed to settle, stirred again, and repeated a few times over the course of an hour or whatever it takes to become totally dissolved.
17 grams of regular Sam’s Club dried parsley is put in a pyrex cake pan, and the Everclear/J8 mix is poured over it. Stir well, level it all out, and leave it in a room temperature place for a couple days, stirring it around a few times until it is dry.
You’ll end up with just about 18 grams of finished product. Usual dose is about a half of an 1/8 teaspoon — one moderate hit. Effects last a couple hours.
Works like a charm!
I am military and i tried happy shaman herbs once. The feelings were hard to explain. After that I waited until the morning time to take my morning piss for the at home drug test and it came out negative, but can it affect me over time or it just wont be on the drug test at all in navy??? Can someone who is navy give me their experience and what happened???
How does JWH-018 stay in your system?
Thanks.
Bob
Bob:
Based on the assays that are the basis of this thread (found at top), there’s no evidence that JWH-018 accumulates in your body over time. Rather it seems to be distributed and excreted in hours.
You do have to take this with a huge grain of salt…as these purported tests were done anonymously.
Hopefully everyone is actually downloading the PDF at top and reading the full assays for themselves. Here are some relevant bullet points from the results summary, which is the last PDF in the file:
Rat Pharmacokinetics Results Commentary:
• A rat pharmacokinetic study was performed by bolus IV injection at 5 mg/kg and blood was collected at various time points for 24 hours post-dose. JWH-018 showed a bi-phasic distribution suggesting both distribution and elimination phases. The clearance was consistent of hepatic blood flow rates in a rat of (55 ml/min/kg). The volume of distribution suggests that the drug is well distributed. No accumulation was observed.
• JWH-018 distributes well throughout the rat. It is metabolized and eliminated normally and shows a half life of ~2 hours.
I have received gwh-018 but the only thing I could find was ever clear 151 proof, will this work for the sollution that x1 has provided us with.
dunno, got my researchchemicalz in, did the 151 everclear mix, 1.5g (1g 073, .5g 018) to 750ml, so 2mg/ml. I started taking 2ml at a time, waiting an hour, then 5ml, still nothing… i just knocked back10ml of the stuff. what’s going on here? the powder never completely dissolved! did i get took? tried vaping some of the 018…nada. the K2 works fine for me. not a troll.
Vince:
No. You need the 190 proof. 151-proof Everclear is not sufficient. You can order the 190 proof online if you can’t find it locally.
pooh:
It is impossible to know whether your JWH was good or bunk. But it is clear from your post that you used the wrong Everclear. You need 190-proof, not 151. This is why “the powder never completely dissolved”.
Even in the correct 190-proof Everclear, repeated manual agitation by a human is required for the powder to dissolve completely. As is made clear in the described method. This is not difficult.
Furthermore, I don’t see why you used a full 750mL of liquid to dissolve 1.5g. My method described was for a total of 1g of agent (500mg each of 018 and 073) dissolved in 400mL of 190-proof.
If you were going to use 1.5g of agent, this would extrapolate to 600mL of required Everclear, if you were following the method. So you’ve got an extra 150mL of Everclear for your dissolved agent substrate, that you don’t really need. I suppose you were thinking that you wanted a flat 2mg per milliliter, for easier rationing…rather than the 2.5mg per milliliter of the posted method…I don’t know the thought process there but it seems unnecessary to dilute the agent above and beyond what is already verified as working.
However it’s a moot point if you use the wrong Everclear.
Can’t really comment on the vaping, as I’ve never bothered trying to smoke or vape this powder. Too imprecise and risky. I certainly wouldn’t advise continuing to drink more and more of the liquid in one sitting. You should have felt something after an hour with the initial dose. Contact the vendor and complain.
By the way, I can only vouch for the 1:1 ratio of 018 to 073.
What happens when you opt to tilt your ratio heavily in favor of one or the other is beyond me.
My original batch is still going strong and I have recently had some remarkable experiences hovering around the 5mL liquid dose level, which following the original method works out to about 12.5 mg JWH. But this only after careful incremental testing beginning at 2mL, once a week, and ramping up each subsequent week in half-milliliter increments.
i think if i can get it mixed I’ll be good. feeling it pretty good now @20mg. i take it all back. good researchchemicalz.
Why do I expect pooh’s next post to describe his visit to the hospital lol
Pooh, update, please!
There’s a good lesson here. The drink method is just as risky as the smoking method if you don’t use the proper solvent. How can you possibly know how much JWH you’ve truly consumed, if half your powder is swirling around in the mix? It wouldn’t take more than a few of the heavier crystals in the inadequately-prepped solution, if thoughtlessly or accidentally consumed, to tip one well over the 10, 15, 20mg threshold or beyond…
I would hope not to see any more of these half-assed experiments. Especially since all the solid info anyone would need to do this perfectly well and have a safe, great time is already typed plain as day on this very page.
But I must admit, it is good blog theatre.
For those of you using the jwh-018 by vaporizing, be very careful to use the proper dose. Not telling you to do that, its not for consumption
but to put this into perspective without a scale, the tip of a 1/32 inch screwdriver when scooped into the powder looks like way too little product. NOT! You should use a scale, because that small amount is actually going to have a very strong effect (so I am told, not saying that I have done this, that is not legal). Just trying to help. For those searching for fertilizer for their banzai trees, do a google search for the pure product. dont waste your time with k2 and the likes. Its much cheaper to get in the pure form (90.00 for two grams and free shipping, or one gram for 45.00 plus shipping)
I tried this jwh it was fuckin crazy it felt like i was trippin my heart rate increased and I had a crazy brain high i thought i was goin to die for a minute. I must have used to much but then again it is new to me. A friend of mine has a lot of it and doesnt know what to do with it because no one wants to try it. So he gave me some and me an my buddies tried it crazy experince!!!!!!
i gave myself an at home drug test to see if i would pass after smoking k2 for about a week. i couldn’t tell if the test was inconclusive or positive. i was confused until my brilliant little brother asked, “did you smoke it out of a pipe with weed resin in it?”
wow. i felt stupid. but i haven’t tried testing myself again since buying a new pipe and using it instead
…just a suggestion to anyone else out there who might need to pass a drug screen and is smoking the legal stuff to avoid a positive result!
maybe stupid question but where can i buy serenity now?
I have tried Spice.. A company from Kansas was raided with the stuff I bought. The company I purchased from disappeared also. I aquired 1000 mg of JWH-018. It’s fun but I’m not sure I will continue. A little goes…..well why repeat the applicable cliche.It will mess people up unless they really have a scale , sooner or later. A lot of people aren’t disciplined or they are careless at times. I’m not sure what to think about RC’s.
I think that they should use JWH in california to replace medical weed. If they did this it would be a positive and a plus for them chem. Its just unfortunate that people use it in an ignorant way and OD. I was ignorant myself in the early years. If they ban jwh 18 and 73, what about all the other JWH’s?? Hu-200 I think is banned but this is because its like 100 times potent then thc, that is on the dea’s website. I think if the vendors warned people of how potent the stuff is, they would have more respect and do a lot less.
JWH is like giving a noob driver an drag racer as their first vehicle. Most will crash and burn because they are inexperienced and think they are driving their grandma’s caddy.
I find it interesting that people sit here & compare spice to marijuana. I’ve never seen anyone get so high on weed that they went to the hospital. I’ve never seen anyone on weed need to monitor their intake like spice. My son became addicted to spice over the past several months. He became recklass & started to compensate for anxiety & heart palpitations with OCD’s. So now his addiction includes prescription med’s to compensate for how screwed up spice made him. He’s in treatment now, but still think spice is the best thing that happened to him. Is that the road you want to travel?
msshaw:
I’m sorry for your son’s troubles. But with all due respect, it seems you are blaming an inanimate object for the result of some poor choices made by a human being. Did Spice force itself into your son’s body? Did someone force him to smoke it at gunpoint?
Obviously people compare spice to marijuana, because the blend looks like marijuana, and the active chemical hits the same receptors in the brain. And there are thousands of people who can consume Spice, in moderation, or even in excess, without suffering the chronic dark spiral of addiction and health problems you say your son has.
Your son is just one person. Maybe there are some other people out there just like him, just as prone to fixate profusely on a substance until it breaks them down. But that’s not going to happen to most people. In fact, it’s not going to happen to the vast majority of people who use Spice or similar cannabinoid blends or pure cannabinoid chemicals.
Again, I’m sorry for your son, but your report of his downward spiral is, for this particular substance, the EXCEPTION…not the rule. This isn’t a hard drug AT ALL. It is nothing close to meth, heroin, crack…or even alcohol.
Tell me, how many people have died from “Spice addiction”? I’m waiting.
The only good point I can scrub up out of your fear-post is that blends like Spice should be avoided anyway, if one can readily obtain the pure cannabinoid and has the wits and simple materials to regulate and dose it with respect and precision.
Drugs are drugs, and people are people. Sometimes stupid people give good drugs a bad name.
To overdose on THC you’d have to smoked 2pounds and it would have to be all in 1 hit. So smoke your brains you good.
X1, I think it is possible for someone to die from JWH-018. Because it has been proven that JWH increases a humans heart rate. If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen, as I mentioned above with the elderly. I think JWH, spice, etc should be done in moderation to prevent the worst. I posted a link previously about a person that used 3 grams each day! 50 bucks a day! and when he got off, he suffered severe withdrawal symptoms. If anything, withdrawal should be done gradually. I know its possible for people to become addicted to this stuff because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly. Rats have died in lab reports from OD and humans can die as well from heart failure, heart attack, etc. People have suffered convulsions and seizures from this stuff which is very very serious.
After reading this blog post, it made me think twice about JWH-018 and the rest. This link discusses the long term symptoms of taking JWH. Long term is defined here as less than 1 year. I would assume the symptoms would only get worse if taken over a year. This stuff is pretty serious in my opinion.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105601
J:
Good lord, man. Let me respond.
“It has been proven that JWH increases a humans heart rate.”
-Yes. So does marijuana. So do many other things. So does caffeine.
“If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen…”
-OK, Doctor Cardio. With fancy terms like ‘heartspeed’, I’ll assume you’re a trained cardiologist. Let’s agree that if someone has a weak heart, they shouldn’t do ANY drugs. Duh.
“I think JWH….should be done in moderation..”
-Yes. Wow. Shocker.
“I know its possible for people to become addicted…because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly.”
-If ‘bliss’ is the criteria for addiction, then we’re all hopeless addicts. One time I rode a roller coaster and felt bliss. Guess I’m addicted. Also, one time I had really great sex with this girl. You know what I felt? Bliss. Uh-oh. Better go to rehab.
“After reading this blog post blah blah blah…”
-I’ve read that thread before (and it’s not a blog, it’s a hugely visited forum).
You must be a very selective reader. What I find when I read that thread is a mix of people who use JWH/Spice stupidly, and people who understand the word moderation.
Here are some choice quotes from across the spectrum of that thread, with my comments after each:
“Swim liked the feeling from it so Swim used it every night after work(Swim works second shift) as a way to relax and get a good nights sleep. Into the second month swim began to notice that his tolerance was way up needing quite a bit of jwh018 to feel anything.”
-Stupid person was using daily as a sleep aid. This builds tolerance and dependence. Where’s the moderation?
“swim has been smoking blends and 018 for about 8 months heavily/daily now”
-Stupid. Oh my gosh, you abused a substance heavily and it gave you problems? Wow.
“Aren’t these the same symptoms as Cannabis withdrawal?”
-Haha. Somebody on the thread noticed it sounds like a bunch of hardcore potheads trying to quit pot. Go figure.
“yeah the rage started when swim bought a gram of pure 018 half way through the bag (he was drinking very heavily at the time also and hes not ment to be drinking, he cant control himself when he dose) of 018 he went nuts, and over the space a few week he completly wrecked a rented house and caused thousonds of euros worth of damage. he had been using smoking blends heavily around 2 to 3 grams a day bofore that.
he stoped drinking, the rage stayed but not as bad and he just became more and more high strung. he had moved back home because he was out on the street for what he had done to the rented house. it just went to the stage where swim would not leave the house, the only time he would is when he would fly off the handle to avoid doing something he would regret (flight or fight sort of thing) or to go get more smoke.
he became a real recluse, this recluse has happenend to swim before with benzo addiction but, so what ever that tells swiy.
there was no real stress involved bar the anxiety caused from 018 and blends. swims not driving, hes on a driving ban and is umemployed no kids or responsibility at all really. swim stopped smoking mj/hash when he started smoking 018 it took complete control of him. he had been smoking
mj/hash from he was boy. for around 15 years in all but never got rage from it, only when he was using mj/hash heavily and could not get any.”
-Now this person is a real fuck-up. Notice the part about the drinking, and the “benzo addiction”, and the years and years of chronic abuse. You can’t put anything down to JWH from this guy. This dude has lots of other issues. Chemically unbalanced and shouldn’t be doing ANY substances.
“shit swim forgot something, swim should of added he was also using cocaine and sniffing powders and from head shops which could of played a part in this, guess there are a lot of other factors that could of caused fits of rage. ivory wave was the most troublesome of them, gave swim psychosis and paranoia for about a week. theres a thread about it on here, the head shop where swim bought have taken off the shelf.”
-That’s from the same guy as the previous quote! GOOD LORD. This fool just dumps anything into his body he can find. I’m starting to get rage issues reading this moron’s posts.
“SWIM abused 018 & 073 for 3 months approx, getting through 5+ grams of each, very approx figures, not less.. Every evening , and weekend full abuse, then smoking during the day before/lunch at work. This was getting out of control. MJ is treated the same, cannbinoid more-ishness..”
-Abuse, abuse, abuse. I’m noticing a pattern where some people abuse the crap out of something well before they ever have any real physical problems. People are creating their own dependencies by immoderate behavior, and then reporting long-term negative effects as if surprised that there are consequences of abuse. But on balance these issues are in the same family as when someone heavily abuses reefer.
“To be honest You just described what swim went through with marijuana the first long time after he started smoking it.”
-Bingo. Which would make sense considering it lights up exactly the same part of your brain.
“6 mo. now — and common Asprin seems much more dangerous than JWH-018.No tolerance build-up, no sleep issues — nothing. SWIM’s PTSD seems to be in remission as well.”
-Interesting.
“There definately is a an addiction factor involved with daily abuse, mentally and slightly physically, but physically no worse than a crap cold. Not much fun, but nothing the average right minded SWIY couldnt handle.”
-Dear God, can it be? The Voice of Reason?
“Moderation and taking days off is key with this substance, at least in SWIMs experience.”
-YES. As with ANY SUBSTANCE IN THE WORLD.
“SWIM started out using match head amounts. They worked very well but after two weeks the dose needed to double and SWIM was doing it six times a day. After six months of smoking SWIM can use an a quarter sized amount and still not reach the desired affect. In six month SWIM smoked almost 15 grams of this shit. It got to the point where SWIM would wake up in the night smoke it.
Two days ago SWIM stopped because he realized he was severely addicted. In the first night SWIM experienced night sweats that had a very strong chemical odor to them. Appetite is nil. Restlessness is at an all time high. SWIM has zero appetite. SWIM can’t sleep. SWIM threw up the first night and the next morning when he quit. SWIM can honestly say this is worse than when he kicked his heroin habit (SWIM just snorted, SWIM prolly experienced 80% of the full heroin withdrawal).”
-This is the addictive personality type. Notice he’s already been around the block with heroin. Anybody using JWH six times a day has a problem in their head…it ain’t the JWH making them do it. You’re going to get sick off anything if you abuse it like that.
There’s a few more on the back end of the thread.
I noticed that in all those posts, nobody went to the hospital and nobody died. The worst, heaviest abusers had trouble sleeping, got night sweats, one guy had diarrhea, another guy puked.
Gee.
Scary.
Just woke up this morning. I decided to try the Gonjah herbal blend last night. The one herbal blend that cost $122.00 for 7 grams. The packaging and the product are all first class, especially the vanilla aroma. The high is an intoxicating high. You are high, but you crash and burn after one or two hour of smoking. The after effect is a hang over type feeling. There is this terrible dry mouth and the feeling that I have drunk several cases of beer. I am slow and dazed. The rest of the stuff in my pipe is going to be dumped out. I have built a little tolerance from these cannabinoids after testing a few of the products. This stuff is not for the weak. It feels just like I have been high for a long time and my body movement is out of sync with my brain. I need a cup of coffee.
I do not like this after feeling of smoking this stuff. I feel drunk and slow. I don’t have an edge to anything in life. Do I want more? Hell no. I want to smoke right now and all I have is laced JWH-18 products. I wish I had a product free of chemicals with 100% certified organic herbs that can get me a mellow high without the crash and burn after effects. Something to make me feel refresh and alive in the morning (without THC). Not something that makes my body feel likes it has been on a drinking binge. When JWH-018 or any synthesized chemicals becomes illegal in the US and a punishable crime for not listing it in the ingredients what will these makers do? They will go out of business because they hadn’t taken the research time to spend their money on finding an all natural organic herbal blend that exceeds any synthesized chemicals. Did you know that 80% or more of the world pharmaceutical drugs were synthesized from plant material? It’s time to go back to the plant. I still feel drunk. Have a good day.
Man, everyone wants to talk about overdosing on this stuff. I’m sorry, but that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I’m kind of new to this stuff, been smoking it for about a month (not constantly. I smoked it a couple of weeks ago and I’ve done it the last couple of days), but I’ve had no serious problems with it. I seriously was bored up where I’m staying and decided to have a smoking spree on this shit, see what it was like. I started smoking Sunday March 7th (?) and finished Wednesday March 10th. That’s yesterday, in case you didn’t know.
-Sunday night I smoked about two matchheads worth, and not even at once. I got pretty fucking high, even felt like I was tripping a bit. No panic attack, no anxiety. I felt good.
-Monday morning I woke up at approximately 6:00 am, took a shower and did my daily routine and started smoking at 6:30. I smoked again at 8:30 am. Then once again at 11:00 am. This was still with approximately a matchhead size amount, or a simple one-hitter pipe. I smoked again at 12:45 pm. No anxiety, just calm, but I feel like I’m tripping pretty hard. This is some strong, long lasting stuff and now I’m just trying to keep my high going. I smoked again at 2:30 pm then at 6:00pm and then again at 7:00 pm and 10:00 pm. I came down from practically an all day high at 11:00.
I had the same routine every day and when I finally came off today I felt not ill effects, no breathing problems, and despite some hazy memory was pretty good. I feel no addiction to it and though I definitely want to do it again, I’ll probably not smoke that much. Not because of ill effects, but because I don’t need that much. I can smoke once or twice in a day, with that matchhead size and I’m good for several hours. I wouldn’t make this an everyday thing either. Maybe once a week or every other week. I’ll probably smoke again either this weekend or next weekend. Why not smoke it everyday? Its not because of health issues or any of that. Its the fact that me and my friends will literally trip on this stuff. Like a small dose of shrooms or something, its weird. I’m not the type of person that wants to trip all day every day and I feel no physical or mental desire to do so. Its good in small doses every once in a while just to feel good.
Which leads me to my question. Have any of you guys tripped on this stuff? I’m not talking about hardcore hallucinating, but a very mellowed out kind of trip.
Machinamaker, keep smoking JWH everyday with the same smoke schedule for 6 months and then stop cold turkey. You’ll be feenin like an addict!
Willie:
Instead of whining that the JWH-product companies won’t get off their duffs and give you the magical perfect natural organic non-chemical herbal blend that makes you happy, why don’t you get off your duff and create it yourself?
I can tell you from my experiences with clean 018 and 073 (not any stinking blend) that the negative drunken stupor you’re experiencing from that Gonjah crap is NOT the signature of JWH. There’s all sorts of other garbage in many of these blends, and that’s what’s making you feel all the hangover mess. If you stuck with the pure RC and dosed it correctly, you wouldn’t have all that grief.
MachinaMaker:
At about the 12.5mg level I have had definite psychedelic activity of a very pleasant and mild, but acutely noticeable variety. Pristine closed-eye visuals that I would characterize as cascading, luminescent liquid of all colors and color-blends, but most striking because of the glow, as if backlit with soft warm lamps…retained for brief duration with eyes open. Not really a psychological trip (which I think is a good thing), but this visual element was effortless and substantial. A nice bonus to cap a transcendent, heavy stone, to be sure.
It feels like there’s a lot of bandwidth there, too. Like I could play around the 12 – 15mg range and have a perfectly safe yet deep swim. We’ll see.
Bearing in mind, this is through liquid ingestion. You say you are getting a mellow trip just from smoking? That’s impressive. Most smoke reports seem to be either the basic short stone….or WHOOPS PANIC ATTACK BECAUSE I WASN’T CAREFUL.
I made a mistake today. I smoked a shaving about 2.0 mg on rebel spice then another 1 mg 10 mins later then I vaporized a 2.0 hit in a small pint jar and hit it. That didn’t seem to work so i hit another 1.5 mg then got overboard. I called my son and waked around my neigborhood for 30 mins waiting for him to come over. He talked to me and we shoveled snow off the lawn to the street until I felt better.
My respiratory system is down a little to Bronchitis so I ahould have abstained. I gave the remainding 700-800 mgs to my son to take away from me. He is going to make it into grams as he is needing clean UA’s.
I hated the trippiness that felt like LSD.
I know, I’m a dork for overdoing it . But I think it’s not meant for me due to I have a little anxiety as it is. So others be careful.
Berny is no Ja Wah…ROFLMAO
I may try the Everclear method. But for me the smoking isnt the best. Or maybe stick with herbal blends.
It makes me feel like I’m doing something really crazy when I smoke it. Feelings of isolation unless I am talking to someone. Paranoia isn’t my bag.
Grass is much better than any synthetic. At least it’s real.
It’s all “real”. It’s all just molecules and brain chemistry. The 018/073 combo through liquid ingestion is as good or better than any KB I’ve ever had in my life.
I just smoked about a gram of this shit last night.. I went to Walgreens today and picked up a self-administered urine drug test for THC, and the test came up NEGATIVE.. Smoke on playa.
Dave- you smoked a gram of herbal blend with JWH-018 not a gram od JWH , right ?
Just needed clarification.
One would have to wonder what smoking a GRAM of it would do over the course of a night, but I suppose it COULD be done. But geeeze…
That’s about a $50 tab for an evening’s entertainment? Toooo rich for me! A gram of 018 will last me for MONTHS.
Guess this 55 year old is Over The Hill for being such a WUSS… but I still regularly enjoy it, a few MICRO-TEENSY-GRAMS at a time.
Mebbe I’m too old to be a playa?
No Tim, I’m in 50′s too and a gram would last me about 2-3 months. Teensie, but unless I get a scale I’m going to not partake. Needs to be accurate for lightweights like us.
The way it concentrates from the shoulders up and the lower body feels so dead is the weirdest feeling. Some people just like to party hearty. I just like a little mood lift.
For example, I love drinking Caribou Lou’s and I only drink 2 in an evening. Just right!
Caribou Lou- Caribou Lou is 1 1/2 parts 151-proof rum, 1 part coconut rum, and 5 parts pineapple juice. Combine these ingredients together in a mixing container of your choosing.
Oh–Don’t forget to shake with chipped ice. Voila!
Oh damn. Coconut rum. I’m sold.
Hmm, ought to try 1 Caribou Lou with about 2mL 018/073 Everclear solution blended in. That sounds tight! Probably take the edge right off.
x1, it’s such an awesome clean euphoria – I think because 151 is so clean.
I don’t drink more than 3 “lou’s” in an evening and no hangover at all. Malibu Coconut Rum is best…MMMM..I may have to get some 190 everclear. If I have approx, 700 Mg of Pure JWH-018 ( I’m sure it is ) how much everclear for 2 Mg doses with the JWH-018, and can you evaporate it off ( about 1/2 of the total liquid amount removed and added to Damiana ) and then how would you calculate a smoking amount from the dried matter? Thanks and cheeers on your Caribou Lou “fusion” !
“approx 700mg”
Hmm, I don’t like that word…approximate…with potent chem.
Well, for 700mg of 018, you would dissolve that in 350mL of 190-proof E for a solution that gives a 2mg dose per milliliter.
At this point I’ll just throw in my usual recommendation that 018 plays beautifully with 073 at a 1 to 1 ratio, and that’s the only way for me….really can’t vouch for 018 solo. Seems mostly to be a straight head high….I’d recommend balancing with an 073 body high to counteract the isolated mindfuck.
Sure you can evaporate off 190-proof E, but the amount of herbal substrate you use is going to determine how much JWH is shot through per gram of bud. I’d recommend going over to drugs-forum and reading up on the make-your-own-blend teks, because you don’t want to half-ass it and get a half-dunked nug from insufficient solution bath, and be hit or miss on your vapes.
And that’s basically why blends suck, even make-your-owns where you control everything. More steps, more variables, more materials…putting you further and further away from the absolute certainty and essence of the raw active chemical…for essentially nostalgic reasons. My thought is…why spend so much time and energy trying to dress up a bleeding-edge synthetic to make it look and feel like reefer? Reminds me of what Allan Holdsworth would say about playing out with the Synthaxe…people always wanted him to make it sound like a Strat.
Thanks for the tip on the Malibu. Gotta check that out! Cheers-
Ok x1..If I do get the 073…So I measure 500 mg each (exact,) how much EverC ? Then how many ml of this brew to make a proper safe enjoyable dose for a newby ?
400mL Everclear 190 proof.
500mg 018 + 500mg 073.
Thoroughly dissolve. Til you see not a single speck or grain in the fluid. May need to scrape around a bit with a wooden spoon, since a small amount likes to collect at the bottom. Just keep scraping and mashing that little tiny pile of grains at the bottom…it gets smaller and smaller til there’s nothing left and its all dissolved.
You now have 400mL of a solution that comes out to 2.5mg of JWH per milliliter of fluid.
Test first with 2 milliliters. This is a 5mg JWH dose (2.5mg per milliliter, times 2). Wait 30 min (probably less, you’ll feel it coming on surprisingly quick). Do NOT multi-dose during the same session. If you feel nothing, or very little, relax and test again another day. Go have a Caribou Lou. Or three. People get in trouble with this stuff when they double and triple up in one sitting.
I have the full method typed up in my first post way up in this thread somewhere.
I bet there are a lot of people trying this liquid thing with just 018. I swear you need 018 and 073 together to slice all the hard edges off the experience. Very mellow, complete, and good.
I can say for anyone who says they have had negative side effects from smoking blends that I find this true in some instances. Spice Gold, Spice Diamond, Ultimate Warrior, and Spike 99 (I do not recommend these blends) all gave me a severe head pounding the next day. While the high was very extreme, almost trippy, the day after effects were not worth the buzz. Serenity Now & K3 are purer blends I believe, hell I even smoked 2 grams in one day of both and never experienced any negative side effects besides being so damn stoned I couldn’t decide whether to sit on my ass or fall asleep. Since then I have quit consuming any “spice blends” because I feel they have changed my psychologically and made me develop anger problems. Also a friend of mine ordered the pure 018 and mix it 7 grams of damiana to 400 mgs of pure. The blend was nice and mellow, about the same as Serenity thou not as intense. I would recommend it in moderation ONLY. Also all my friends smoke, some experimented through a bong, gas mask, and vaporizer. The worst feeling my buddy said he had was when he took 4 bong hits of Serenity, he said he was nervous, shaky, anxious, and had a panic attack. But also he said it only lasted for about 20 minutes and after that he was just really stoned. I don’t see any reason why this stuff is bad other than people who are not smart enough to use it wisely. Also the stores around here sell it now, and I frequently encounter police staking the place out harassing customer’s who buy it. Won’t be long until they make this stuff illegal so all those who do smoke it I suggest you stock up on some pure stuff and make your own blends, it will save you a lot of money in the long run and you will know whats in your blend that way, as long as you purchase from a good researchchemicalz company.
I find it amazing that you will go to all that trouble to put yourself in a mind altering state. First you might have a “panic attack”, severe headache, nervous, shacky, anxious for 20 minutes of being really stoned. Yeah, sounds like a really great time. Why don’t you just figure out what is hurting you so badly inside your head that you would go to all the trouble. And if you don’t want to experience all those side effects, you only need to become a pharmacist and , weigh,measure, mix, blah, blah, blah….sounds to me like people with serious issues. There is a reason that it will soon be illegal. This isn’t marijuana, it’s a man made synthetic substance that you have no reason to poisen yourself with. Unless….you are in trouble with the law, for abusing yourself already with other substances, then you resort to a “blend” that causes such aggravation. Seems to me like you might want to use your time finding yourself with healthier choices.
TO: msshaw, please email me. we can talk off line. I hear what you are saying. I am sure you have read some of my previous posts. Just email me. I am sorry to hear about your son. You have every right to stand up and voice your opinion. None of us knows your pain as a parent of having to deal with a child who ventured in unknown chemical territory. Trust me on this one, you won’t win your argument here. However, I respect your courage to voice your opinion in a frank and sincere manner. I am at courther@bellsouth.net
By the end of 2010 JWH-XXX will be schedule 1.
x1: I ordered 1g of 18 and 1g of 73. The only thing I couldn’t get is the Everclear 190. It’s not legal in my state, so I can’t get it shipped here either. I bought 151 proof rum. I know you said 150 proof everclear wouldn’t work, but why? Is it impossible to dissolve the jwh in them or something?
W:
No, it’s not impossible to dissolve JWH in something less than 190 proof…it’s just considerably harder.
Basically, these cannabinoids dissolve well in alcohol, and don’t dissolve at all in water. So the further down the chain you get from “pure” alcohol, the harder it is to make the chemical dissolve. As I’ve mentioned, even close to pure grain alcohol at 190-proof, you typically don’t get it to totally dissolve just by pouring in and mixing…you have to agitate, scrape, mash a bit to get every last grain.
At 151-proof, for starters you’re probably going to need to use a lot of rum (more alcohol will help your chances). If you were thinking of dissolving all 2g of your material at once, I’d think about using a full 1.75 L jug of rum. And at this point, you’re in the experimental stage, and I don’t know if it will work for you. I can flat guarantee unequivocal success with 190-proof, whereas anything less is kind of a crap shoot. You can probably get it to dissolve if you are willing to expose it to enough alcohol and you are prepared to stir and mash the crap out of it.
At this point someone might say, “why don’t you heat up the rum and it will dissolve no problem?”
I’m not advocating that. Heating up liquor in your home can be a little dicey, what the fumes and the fire hazard and so on. AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT THE MICROWAVE. No no no.
Personally I’d recommend driving to the nearest 190-proof friendly state, loading up, and driving back.
msshaw:
I don’t know if you can comprehend this, but there are some humans in the world who enjoy a good intoxication every now and then. Humans have been known to enjoy such for thousands of years.
Some of us enjoy the intoxication produced by these particular cannabinoid agents that we are discussing here. Some of us enjoy it considerably more than other intoxicants such as alcohol.
If you don’t enjoy any such activity or state of being, that’s just peachy, and I wish you a good time to be had in whatever way you enjoy.
But please don’t superimpose the problems in your family onto the rest of the world. There’s a world of people who can enjoy “drugs” of different sorts without going off the deep end.
Perhaps seeking personal counseling for yourself, to help manage the frustration of your son’s extreme negative experience and negative impact on your life, would be more fruitful than venting on a drug blog.
x1 quotes ” There’s a world of people who can enjoy “drugs” of different sorts without going off the deep end.”
It’s true, but sad are they that can’t keep things on track. There is always someone who can’t drink responsibly too. Or they have a fast car and drive fast or impaired.
It gets ridiculous to outlaw everything.
msshaw why are you attacking me? What does it matter if my friend over did his experience. People do this everyday, he’s not a habitual user by any means. I really wish you conservative fucks would stop wasting the people’s time who are here to gain some knowledge. Sorry your son is a screw up and not capable of controlling his own actions but as an adult I must tell you, fuck off. This blog is great and JWH will not be illegal because a few responsible adults overdid their experience to see how high they could get but by the fact that children are getting their hands on the blends and pure stuff and acting stupid and making youtube videos. Same thing that happened with salvia.
That’s what conservatives seem to do these days.
They talk a big game about freedom and liberty…
But then they attack you for living how you want to.
Kind of misses the point of the whole freedom thing.
I must sadly say that J is right. FDA has their sights set on K2 and the components already. And several doctors are urging them to make K2, Spice and the JWH’s a schedule one class drug. So enjoy it and being able to order it while you can. Damn shame too. A mere gram of the pure stuff can get you baked for several months.
Can someone help me out here. The new synthetic K2 with JWH-018 sprayed on it. Is it traceable in laboratory test? I smoked it Sunday and had to do a saliva test this morning.
Asm.. i wasn’t attacking you personally, it seems as if you may be experiencing some of that paranoia & anxiety you so like to expose yourself too. However, that being said, it seems to me that many of the people(not all) that smoke spice do so because of prior issues that have put them in the position of being drug tested. Hmmm. something to think about….! Also,if becoming a pharmacutical expert with measuring & mixing isn’t going off the deep end to get a pleasurable high….I don’t know what is. That said…..this will be my last post, I will get off my high horse, let you all enjoy yourselves in whatever means you find necessary. I, for the record, do enjoy a good buzz once in awhile, responsibly & without risk. Peace out!
msshaw:
Pharmaceutical expert?
The measuring and mixing discussed in this thread is about as difficult and technical as the measuring and mixing involved in baking a cake. In fact, it’s less difficult. It involves less measuring, less calculation, and less equipment and ingredients than cake-baking.
Yes, please come down off your high horse, since you are riding it quite stupidly.
You…came here…and attacked people who are minding their own business discussing a common interest in a civil manner. Who’s gone off the deep end? Enjoy your responsible buzz, annoying little mosquito!
lol people let it be go argue about lcd, pcp, meth. These substances are way worse than jwh-018 so if this get illegalized then all your high school daughters and sons will just go down the street and buy weed, cocaine, acid, ext. Then you be visting them in the county jail. The point is why isn’t the government taking approach on this if its sooooooooo toxic. People saying they are in the hospital. LOl give me a fuckin break scary high maybe. Dumbasses taking to high of a dose for the first time. Every person that has gone to the hospital were 100% fine. If you think that it so toxic then why hasn’t there been deaths. Since jwh-018 has been out since 1995 and there are still no cases on this prdouct of anyone dieing.
Doc, you have some good points and bad points. Death is very possible. The right scenario just hasn’t happened, and I pray it doesn’t. Think about someone using this stuff while operating heavy machinery or while driving on the highway!
JWH works with the liver in a way that can cause the skin and eyes to turn yellow. JWH increases the heart rate to a point that can give someone with high blood pressure a heart attack.
I think that there should be a JWH-XXX chem that is a 1 to 1 ratio with thc. At least this way, less people are likely to OD on the stuff. People will do it regardless, but at least it want be so much of a hazard.
Another thing. Everyone that is using spice, K2, puff and all the rest are putting their life in the hands of the companies that make the stuff. That thought alone puts chills down my spine.
Everyone is so greedy to make money, its sad but true.
Anyway, I would like to see an mri cat scan of a person who has smoked spice for years and compare their brain with someone who never smoked spice to see if their is any difference in structure.
Without a doubt, total abstinence is “the way to go” to maintain optimum health and all… but given the nature of people wanting to get buzzed –
I’d rather see them use micrograms of JWH-018 every few days than The Chronic a few times a day. It costs less, involves way fewer lungfulls of smoke, is legal, doesn’t contribute to violent “drug trade” untaxed commerce, etc etc.
CAN it leas to death/addictions/financial ruin? I suppose it can, sure… but toxic as it may or may not be at least we’re not clogging up up the jails and ER’s around the country with people who have to commit criminal acts to use it. That’s gotta count for something!!
yes, i have to admit that jwh-018 is a dirty high. i’ve had many incenses that contain it and i have to be very careful when i smoke it. i’ve had many panic attacks if i overdo it. which isn’t much. an extra puff. feels dirty and toxic. a cheap, yet expensive high. i’m sticking to the real thing.
just to let you know i’ve been with mj for 25 years and this stuff is definitely different. i can understand exactly why someone would smoke this. usually because of urine tests or mj scarcity. but it won’t be legal long. i mean the first time i smoked it, i was like HOLY FUCK! HOW IN THE FUCK CAN THIS BE LEGAL? but to each his own. here, there’s an overabundance of the real thing-dirt cheap to.
Bronchitis is still bad and I every time I cough for 2- 3 seconds I almost black out and have a mini seizure. I don’t know if the chemical has thwarted recovery somehow but it feels so.
To get better it’s been over 48 hours without any smoking JWH. And, I am still feeling the weirdest i have in my whole life. I pray it’s just all the sinus pressure and hard coughing robbing me of needed Oxygen but I can’t be sure until I heal up.
Berny, I will pray for you that you get better. Was it pure JWH or a herbal blend like spice gold, etc? Either way, you never know if its pure or impure. That’s why I recommend not doing it. Essentially, you are putting your life into someones hands every time you do it. Everyone here needs to ask themselves. How valuable is my life? How valuable is my brain and having a clear mind.
Berny and anyone else who doesn’t feel good. I would recommend doing a full detox. Stay away from fatty foods. See a doctor and tell them what you messed around with and let them know you don’t feel right. Berny, if you are really concerned, get an MRI of your head, and get a chest x-ray. Also drink alot of water.
Good Luck
J:
This is a JWH toxicology thread, not a Nancy Reagan Just Say No thread.
You are talking some serious bullshit, and I’m calling you on it. From the moment you entered this thread, many posts ago, you had nothing but negative things to say about JWH, many of which are factually inaccurate.
Since this is a JWH toxicology thread, here is your chance to substantiate the record, and prove yourself, instead of constantly talking out of your ass.
Here is one of your dumb comments:
“JWH works with the liver in a way that can cause the skin and eyes to turn yellow.”
Prove it. Don’t just say it. How is it received and processed by the liver? How does it cause skin and eyes to turn yellow? How come my liver is fine, and my skin and eyes haven’t turned yellow? You are just talking out of your dumb ass.
Here is another dumb comment:
“JWH increases the heart rate to a point that can give someone with high blood pressure a heart attack.”
Prove it.
How many people have had heart attacks on JWH? Out of the thousands, probably tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands….maybe even a million or more people who have done JWH or smoked Spice…
…how many have had heart attacks? I’m sure at least some of those people had high blood pressure. Why haven’t any of them had heart attacks?
Can you please use facts, evidence, proof, etc…?
…Instead of just pulling hot steaming bullshit out of your asshole? Stop the baseless fear-mongering. All the empirical evidence, amassed from countless details of countless people consuming this stuff, amounts to zero heart attacks, zero deaths, and zero measurable chronic, permanent physiological damage. That’s different from psychological…where people might believe JWH fucked them up, even if they have no medical proof.
What you do have, so far, is a long, LONG list of stupid people, using a very potent clinical-grade chemical in a very stupid, casual way, without serious regard for precise dosage and reaction sensitivity. Naturally, because of such stupidity, you have some bad times, and I see many many people blaming the chemical for their own retarded antics.
This is why it’s so important, for those of us who understand and respect these sorts of chemicals in general, and who don’t see global prohibition as inevitable, to try to put a stop to two things:
1. Careless use that leads to extremely negative experiences and bad word of mouth.
2. Careless, baseless fear-mongering where people make up lies and generate bad word of mouth for no clear reason.
J, you fall under #2. Maybe your intentions are good….or maybe you have some other motive that causes you to make overblown or inaccurate comments to try to scare people. In any case, if you are going to make a SCARY claim about a JWH health risk, especially in a toxicology thread, you better damn well back it up with hard evidence. Otherwise you’re just a part of the problem…yet more disinformation and bullshit propaganda on the hysteria express.
You told a guy up there to “stay away from fatty foods”, to help him recover from a bad JWH experience. I’m guessing you’re no doctor. Guess what, folks? It’s OK to eat some cake and ice cream, or whatever else you like, after having a little too much JWH. J doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, and such pseudo-doctor babble isn’t productive.
If you want some good advice, here’s some:
1. Do not even bother with JWH at all if you are a blithering idiot.
2. Don’t bother smoking JWH if you don’t have a way to precisely measure the substance at the single milligram level.
3. Don’t bother smoking JWH if you don’t have the patience to wait 15 minutes after a toke to gauge the effect.
4. Consider avoiding smoking JWH altogether by using the bulletproof 190-proof Everclear method.
5. AVOID ALL BLENDS. Buy only the pure research chemical, and regulate yourself.
6. Don’t believe any bullshit about heart attacks, deaths, or any other VERY BAD THINGS coming from JWH without serious evidence. There are many, many things in this world that elevate your heart rate. Some of those things include music, caffeine, and sex. Based on the EVIDENCE we have so far, it seems you are just about as likely to have a heart attack on JWH…as you are to have a heart attack while sipping coffee…or fucking.
If you decide to be stupid and careless anyway, and fail to precisely measure, and fail to be disciplined and patient, and treat JWH like a fucking dirty street drug, be ready to have a panic attack.
Just don’t forget…a panic attack is not a heart attack. Even if it’s a really bad, scary panic attack, there’s virtually zero likelihood you will actually damage your heart. A physical and a review of your vital signs will confirm this. So think about that before you run to the nearest internet forum and make a silly post about how scary and dangerous and unhealthy and evil JWH is.
The chemical itself seems to be fairly benign and harmless. It passes easily through the system, and lights up the reefer-loving part of the brain with remarkable efficiency.
Unfortunately, the motley gang of wayward, logic-challenged humans who keep jacking themselves on this chemical in careless ways, or who keep disparaging the chemical with thoughtless anti-facts, are going to ruin the party for those who actually have some sense.
Snipped abstract of a recent group of studies… just spreading some knowledge to RCers. While JWH-018 appears to be perfectly safe short term, it is likely extremely dangerous in the long run. Doubt many people bother using more than once or twice a week anyway, but daily users might want to cut back a bit until more research is done and published.
“Studies on the metabolism of JWH-018 and of a homologue of CP 47,497, pharmacologically active ingredients
of different misused incense (“Spice”) using GC-MS and LC-MSn techniques
T. Kraemer, K.Y. Rust, M.R. Meyer, D.K. Wissenbach, D. Bregel,
M. Hopf, H.H. Maurer, J. Wilske
(Institute of Legal Medicine, Saarland University, 66421 Homburg,
Germany; Experimental and Clinical Toxicology, University of Saarland,
66421 Homburg, Germany)
Introduction: In the last few months, a new drug has conquered the cannabis market: different types of incenses (trade names “Spice”, “Smoke”, “Sence” and others) have widely been misused by smoking these blends of herbs. Recently, artificial endocannabinoid receptor agonists (JWH-018 and a homologue of CP 47, 497) have been found to be the pharmacologically active principles in these blends. Unfortunately, little is known about these substances.
Aim: The aim of this study was to elucidate the metabolism of JWH-018 and of a homologue of CP 47,497 (CP47).
Methods: Ethanolic extracts were prepared from incenses containing JWH-018 and CP47, respectively. After removal of the ethanol the residues were given to Wistar rats by gastric intubation and urine was collected over 24 hours. For identification, the metabolites were isolated after enzymatic or acidic cleavage of conjugates by liquid-liquid extraction (LLE) or solidphase extraction (C18 ) followed by acetylation and GC-MS analysis. For LC-MS the underivatized extracts were used. Metabolites were identified by interpretation of the EI mass spectra (GC-MS) and enhanced product ion (EPI) scan mass spectra (LC-MS). MS3 experiments allowed differentiation of isomeric metabolites.
Results: The parent compounds JWH-018 and CP47 could be found in the urine extracts. For JWH-018, the N-dealkyl metabolite could be detected as well as the hydroxylated metabolite. The highest signals could be observed for the hydroxylated N-dealkyl metabolites. Hydroxylation took place in the side chain and in both aromatic systems, the naphthalene and the indol part, which could be shown by mass shift of the corresponding fragments and by MS3 experiments. For CP47, several hydroxylated metabolites could be identified. Aliphatic hydroxyl groups could be differentiated from aromatic hydroxyl groups by different fragmentation patterns (loss of water/acetic acid for aliphatic hydroxyl groups).
Conclusion: JWH-018 and CP 47 are extensively metabolized in rats. According to our experience similar metabolic patterns can be expected in humans. Therefore, screening procedures for these drugs in urine should include not only the parent compound but also the corresponding metabolites.”
Hey crispy, I appreciate you sharing the research study. It appears that authorities will soon include these cannabinoids in their official drug screening tests since they know how to detect it in the lab. Kinda of makes you want to go back to the real MJ if this becomes the case.
Hey x1, what say ye to this report. The researchers concluded that the cannabinoids extensively metabolized in rats in which they logically assumed that the same thing is happening with humans. So x1 is this a good or bad thing? It seems to me that it does not stay in the body for long periods and the body is able to process and get rid of them quickly through urine and fece. Its like this research study’s goal was not to determine the safety of the chemicals but how to detect it in drug screening analysis.
It seems like the study inadvertently promoted the safety of the chemicals by proving how it processes (metabolizes) so quickly through the human body thus causing less harm. The research did not address the issue of long term use and effects.
Willie:
I agree with you. Your statement “the research did not address the issue of long term use and effects” is spot on.
The information crispy posted appears to confirm exactly what the anonymous toxicology assays at the top of this thread suggest….that JWH moves quickly through an animal’s system.
That’s all.
So… then….
I have to ask….
crispy…
Regarding your strange comment:
“While JWH-018 appears to be perfectly safe short term, it is likely extremely dangerous in the long run.”
Please explain why JWH is “likely extremely dangerous in the long run”. This seems unnecessarily hyperbolic, and totally unsubstantiated based on what we currently know about the chemical.
I can understand comments to the effect that we “don’t know enough yet”…or “don’t have enough information”….because we certainly don’t know anything about long term effects of these chemicals. Because, of course, they are too new….not enough time has elapsed in the world.
But when you say “likely extremely dangerous,” this implies you have obtained some concrete knowledge about some facet of the chemical that increases the probability that it is actually physically harmful.
And I would like to know what specific, concrete knowledge you are referencing that makes JWH “likely extremely dangerous in the long run”.
Because from where I’m sitting, that comment doesn’t make sense given the info you just provided. Rather, it just sounds like unhelpful scare-mongering based on something other than actual facts.
Thanks.
Well, I have abstained from smoking spice and jwh for 4 days and my bronchitis is finally easing up. I am sure if I smoked cigarettes it would be the same by leaving them for a few days.
I enjoy getting a buzz on so I guess I’m just an old stoner, lol.
I do believe that smoking JWH slows down my respiratory system and the smoke irritates the cilia actually helping the virus to fluorish.
I bet the first tiem I smoke I’m going to be very buzzed.
Many people are using acetone to make their spice blends. Check the health adverse effects if someone inhales a heavy amount of acetone! The effects sound similar to smoking a spice blend!
Health effects
” After inhaling acetone fumes or ingesting acetone, it enters the blood, which then carries it to all the organs in the body. If it is a small amount, the liver breaks it down to chemicals that are not harmful and uses these chemicals to make energy for normal body functions. Breathing moderate- to-high levels of acetone for short periods of time, however, can cause nose, throat, lung, and eye irritation; headaches; light-headedness; confusion; increased pulse rate; effects on blood; nausea; vomiting; unconsciousness and possibly coma; and shortening of the menstrual cycle in women. ”
Many of the symptoms listed above occur when people smoke JWH-018. So if you add 2+2 together you know that your suffering the effects of the acetone, when you smoke this stuff. Not a good thing!
http://www.worldofmolecules.com/solvents/acetone.htm
Think twice before you smoke!
J:
NO. When you say “Many of the symptoms listed above occur when people smoke JWH-018″, you are being imprecise and distortionary.
If people are smoking BLENDS that contain other crap in them besides JWH, they may experience some of the listed symptoms.
But that’s not JWH.
So stop saying it’s JWH, idiot.
You need to make the intellectual distinction between JWH, on its own….and all these different BLENDS which have all sorts of god knows what goop in them.
Please make that distinction. Can you do that? Can you try and squeeze your tiny brain real hard and make that distinction, and stop blaming the raw JWH chemical for the effects caused by other agents?
If you want to proselytize about the warnings of ACETONE, or the junk chemicals found in BLENDS, then by all means, please do so.
BUT STOP SAYING IT’S JWH, because that’s total bullshit and you are talking out of your ass.
Having just discoursed upon the dangerous effects of ACETONE, wouldn’t it make sense for you to tell people to AVOID BLENDS?
But instead, you seem to be constantly telling people that JWH itself is dangerous, and to avoid JWH because it causes this and that. And those are stupid lies.
I don’t know….maybe you are too stupid to make the consistent distinction between JWH…by itself….and those dirty BLENDS out there that might have JWH as one of their component chemicals.
If you feel called by God to warn people about ACETONE…maybe you should stop referring to it as JWH, or confusing it with JWH. You said JWH fucks up the liver and makes skin and eyes yellow. FALSE. LIE. BULLSHIT. You said JWH makes some people more prone to heart attacks. LIE. BULLSHIT. NO EVIDENCE. NO HEART ATTACKS.
So after all this, you don’t have any actual hard evidence that JWH is harmful at all…..only that ACETONE is. Which everybody already knew.
Gee! Newsflash! Acetone is bad for you! Don’t ingest it or bad shit will happen!
But hey! Why don’t we just blame all that nasty shit on JWH?! Great idea J!!!!!!! Dolt.
I don’t mind ignorant people. Or know-it-all’s. Both can be taught. In regards to the past couple messages here…
I can see both sides, and have to simply add these two cents — yes, JWH-018 is a DRUG. Doing too much of it isn’t good. Trying it once or twice to see what you think about it probably won’t kill you, but making a well-researched decision is a must.
Keep discussion — not cussin’ — going, please! I’m no prude but just think it’s easier on the eyes when folks work at making their points here by using common sense and courtesy, eh?
Why you have to be so rude X1??? Sometimes it seems that you have somekind of economical interest in this substance..why you call an idiot or an asshole to anyone who disagree with your coments regarding to JWH 018? Besides I hope that JWH series chemicals dont be any harm to human body, because to much people have used them since 2008 (in spice alikes blends or in pure form) and it would very sad if there be nasty long term side effects…It seems that everyone is worried about the posible carcinogenity of these compounds, but thats not the only nasty side effect it ”COULD” bring, for example…it could affect your liver, heart, brain, etc…no one knows. Im not saying that people shouldnt do this or that…if someone feels that should do heroin cocaine cannabis lsd mushrooms or even jwh its up to them, but PLEASE BE SAFE MAKE TAKE SOME HARM REDUCTION MESSURES FIRST. (AKA AT LEAST USE A WEIGHT SCALE). Peace.
Fedete, should I be civil to someone who spreads outright falsehoods?
Should I reason with the liar patiently, and wait on him to stop lying, trusting in good faith that he will come around?
Go back and read through the history of these comments. You will see that I only started getting seriously “rude” with the poster “J” once he kept on dropping unfortunate and unhelpful lies.
The “JWH turns your skin and eyes yellow” crap is just one of several belligerently stupid examples from that poster.
If the idiot asshole wants to try sticking to facts, instead of stoking needless fear and hysteria….then you can bet I will stop thinking of him as an idiot asshole, and will defer back to the civility and good graces suitable for fact-based discussion.
In the meantime, do you doubt my observations about these lies? Can you or “J” or anyone else provide concrete data showing legitimate, serious physiological damage from the substance we are discussing here?
If you cannot, then I hope you will agree with me that the fear-mongering of posters like “J” is indeed idiotic, and the poster is an idiot, and should be treated as such.
As for my own motives…I regret your insinuation that I have something to gain economically from defending the chemical. I have in this thread offered a means of consuming the chemical that is much more safe and reliable than the common (and silly) method of smoking the stuff. I have made ample warnings about dosage and moderation, and I have even discussed, discreetly, two different vendors of the pure chemical, one US-based, and one foreign to the US…and I am affiliated with neither. Don’t you think that if I were in the JWH “business” I would have referenced only a single vendor, or tried to send people to an actual link, or in some overt way actually tried to drum up serious business for myself, the RC industry, and JWH in particular?
But I haven’t done that, have I? Do you think that if I had an economical interest in this chemical, I would be bashing blends, and telling people NOT to smoke it? Come on…get serious.
Now then, if you are going to take me to task for being “rude” dropping f-bombs on liars and calling them idiot assholes….well, how about being fair? How about some criticism also for the ones spewing anti-factual bullshit? Isn’t that a reasonable request?
Does anyone know anything about JWH-200? It appears that it works like Jwh-018 but more on the CB1?
JWH 200 is an aminoalkylindole that acts as a cannabinoid (CB) receptor ligand. It binds to the CB1 receptor with high-affinity (IC50 = 7.8-42 nM).1,2 The effects of JWH 200 in locomotor activity, tail-flick latency, hypothermia, and ring-immobility tests are comparable or superior to Δ9-THC or WIN-55,212.3 It potently inhibits the contraction of electrically-stimulated murine vas deferens (IC50 = 3.7-6.0 nM).4,5
1 Eissenstat, M.A., Bell, M.R., D’Ambra, T.E., et al. Aminoalkylindoles: Structure-activity relationships of novel cannabinoid mimetics. J Med Chem 38 3094-3105 (1995).
2 Huffman, J.W., Mabon, R., Wu, M., et al. 3-indolyl-1-naphthylmethanes: New cannabimimetic indoles provide evidence for aromatic stacking interactions with the CB1 cannabinoid receptor. Bioorg Med Chem 11 539-549 (2003).
3 Compton, D.R., Gold, L.H., Ward, S.J., et al. Aminoalkylindole analogs: Cannabimimetic activity of a class of compounds structurally distinct from D9-tetrahydrocannabinol. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 263(3) 1118-1126 (1992).
4 Pacheco, M., Childers, S.R., Arnold, R., et al. Aminoalkylindoles: Actions on specific G-protein-linked receptors. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 257(1) 170-183 (1991).
5 Bell, M.R., D’Ambra, T.E., Kumar, V., et al. Antinociceptive (aminoalkyl) indoles. J Med Chem 34 1099-1110 (1991).
I agree with X1, no one should state what they THINK are facts until they KNOW and have PROOF. Needless hysteria and worrying among those who were/are using what has until recently been thought to be harmless is not needed until there is hard evidence proving these ailments. I know a friend of a friend that has used the sketchy “blends” frequently for nearly 2 years and has had no adverse symptoms unless combined with high amounts of alcohol which I would believe to be expected. Even after nearly a month of cessation after a year and a half of use had no withdrawal symptoms, even when it was combined with alcohol cessation after about 5 years of very frequent drinking. Even though this is only one case, I’ve discussed the issue with dozens of frequent users, none reporting any issues. Lets stick to the facts and figure this out.
Ok im technically on probation… Its unsupervised but if for some odd reason i get drug tested i dont to fail and have to go back to fuckin jail.(excuse my language) So a good 5 months back i had to make a transfer over to serenity now, which contains that chemical thats being discussed… So far i have come to see that yes it does take more to get u high after the first time and the high doesnt last that long… But me and my frieds for the past 2 months have not missed a day of smokin and sometimes i will admit that we did go over board and we had smoked a good 6 to 8 blunts a day… But thats not the point the point is that i do kno of some side effects that serenity does leave behind(but for some reason not in me) my friends have actually started to get migrains and one of my friends has actually started to have a really bad breathing problem when he smoked this… Also the scariest part about this stuff is that where i live in the same county some one has died and the coroner had publicly announced that this cats death was due to serenity IE cardiac arrest… Granted im sure that this guy had many problems with his heart n serenity may have pushed him over that line between life and death but the fact of the matter is that those same problems that my friends have started to have are the same problems leading up to this mans death… Again im not sure that it was fully serenity but it could have had a good part in it… Also serenity is a aromatic incense right? Well its also a natural pesticide… I can tell u from personal experience(cause we have moved 3 different times since we started smokin this) that it is like a pesticide thatll get u high… Anyone who smokes this should take notice that they dont have any bugs in that spefic room they smoke in… And spiders dont count… But i just realized that and wanted to throw that out there… But i need to kno if serenity can be a cause of death or if its a stupid coroners fictious thinking thats scaring the crap outta my friends…
Oftentimes, I have learned that when issues arise regarding what is the mission or purpose that is behind driving a man, woman, organization, business, or government to act we have to look deep at the objectives, goals, and expected end results. There are many examples around us like the Iraq war, the conflict in Afghanistan, healthcare reform, arms treaty with Russia, etc. In other words, what is the root cause/effect that is driving us to do what we do? When there is no legitimate reason or logic for our actions then conflict arises as to intended purposes.
The question is now put before this thread entitled “JWH-18 Toxicology.” What is the objectives/goals of this discussion thread? What is our mission? The objectives/goals from my viewpoint as a participant is: 1.) To provide scientific related documentation regarding the current and future research of synthetic cannabinoids as it relates to toxicology and safety involving human beings. 2.) To share and document real case scenarios as it relates to toxicology effects on human beings and 3.) To share lessons learned and best practices regarding the safety and use of the synthetic cannabinoids to reduce and or eliminate toxicological risks on human beings.
These three objectives and goals is what I see as our mission statement. I don’t think it is designed around myth busting where unsubstantiated and unreliable information is placed on the thread and someone has to prove that it is incorrect. That’s not in our mission statement. What say ye?
I have smoked my last today. I still have bronchitis but it’s getting better.
The bad news is I have prostate cancer. Either radiation or surgery, don’t know yet! But the thing that I want to say is that I am going to go ultra healthy and put the best fight on I can muster. No smoking, no high fats, veggies and fruit will be aplenty.
I pray I can make it through and live many more years.
n:
Thank you! Common sense comes to town!
A big big problem I see is that people take an experience they have with some murky blend product (like Spice or Serenity Now) and extrapolate a pseudo-scientific conclusion about the harmfulness of JWH from it…..when of course JWH, if contained in the blend at all, is often one of MANY many constituents in that blend. Most of the blend products only give a partial list of ingredients, often using cover language like “…and other botanical extracts”. For all you know, any purchased blend you smoke could have been sprayed with pesticide, sprinkled with rat poison, or pissed on. God knows what is in that shit.
Take the comments of Josephus. He is talking about Serenity Now. How can any of the things mentioned, migraines or anything else, be attributed to JWH, when the blend contains several constituents, some of them unknown? It is impossible to draw an empirical straight line from this or that malady back to any particular ingredient of the blend. Naturally, JWH gets scapegoated without any real proof or helpful information. It’s just hearsay.
Willie:
Do you really think any of your three proposed objectives (which I do think are noble and good ideas) can be met without ardent myth-busting and debunking? I don’t see how we can have any reliable repository of JWH information if such constant baseless claims as we have seen here aren’t immediately and vigorously rooted out and challenged. Isn’t that how good science works? By taking a skeptical position as the default, and forcing people to justify their claims with something other than emotional rhetoric?
But I agree that nobody here has to prove that anything is INCORRECT. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Like, when someone says that ingesting a particular chemical causes yellowing of skin and eyes, or increases heart attack risk…the burden of proof is on that person to justify that claim with something other than their own inner logic. External hard evidence is needed. And if not provided, the person making the baseless claim should be castigated and run out of town.
Alright, I have read everything… I’ve studied all the responses… & I still smoke a blend. (From the “spice family”) Nothing better for me. It’s a cleaner high. I don’t feel “groggy” or “destroyed”, just wonderfully and happily high… but, I can still work and function JUST fine. I think it’s brilliant. I DO have a serious question tho… I live in Kansas. Most distributors won’t even ship here. We have a couple retail stores that REALLY DEPEND on the revenue from selling the “potpourri blend” (500mg packets) Now, Kansas has made it illegal. I SERIOUSLY need a legal alternative in this state. DOES ANYONE have a legal alternative out there?
I don’t care if it’s JWH-019,398 & 250 mixed together… is there a recipe that will pass for Kansas, Ohio, Georgia and other states joining the bandwagon. I agree that it is rediculous to outlaw it… but, whatever. But, I SERIOUSLY NEED a viable alternative in this economy. Please, you all sound pretty smart on this site and “up-to-speed” through your endevors at research… PLEASE tell me that there is something that I can substitute for the -018 & 073 and still get the same basic results (shy of weed…) it’s GOT to be able to beat the tests for HU-210, JWH-018, JWH-073, BZP and TFMPP… those are the particular ones that they have outlawed in this state. Please gimme some info fellas, I really CAN’T afford to loose my store… the economy in this central Kansas town has REALLY tanked. I’m not joking at all. My wife and I have eight ten-age kids between us and ALOT of financial responisilities… this is really important to me… I need some solid advice on this (and NOT about having too many kids, or “…boo-hoo, you shouldn’t have opened a store in this economy”…) agreed… but, what’s done is done. Just please fellas… any insight to a truely good recipe that’ll pass through Kansas law? I just need a little help from some knowledgable folks. I’m beggin ya’all.
yes im very interested in learning about the spray that is being used.
OK, i need the honest honest answer, can u pass a probation drug test? yes or no?
I’ve been smoking jwh 018 blends for a while now and i love it. finally something i can enjoy and not have to stress bout gettin in trouble for weed anymore. my favorite brand is serenity now strawberry. im making a homemade batch soon now that i know how they do it. berys imple actually. but anyways i dont think u can OD on it but li have smoked a lil more than i could handle of this stuff. like the other day i smoked about 4 to 5 bowls to myslef of this shit with some freinds and i just got really nausiated and threw up a bit. just like when u burn way tooo much weed. not too bad, its all good now ;] just remember a lil bit of this stuff goes a long way
I found out about Serenity Now about 2 weeks ago. I occassionaly smoked pot (about 1 to 2 times per every 3 to 4 months). Here is my reaction:
I smoked it in joint form with a friend and mistakenly treated it like pot. After twitching and flipping out for about 30 minutes, the high occurring in stages, I realized that I had smoked way too much. For me, the high was immediate. So, the next time I smoked the Serenity Now mixture, I smoked it again rolled but only took 3 hits. This was just a bit more than I really needed. So, the next time I took 2 hits… still a little too high but just about right. My boyfriend, however, had never been high in his life. He smoked with me and after about 10 minutes he was saying that he didn’t feel anything. He insisted he didn’t smoke it right. So, regardless of how much I tried to assure him that he would feel it, he smoked another half a joint. Then, he was swimming. Literally swimming because he thought he was under the ocean and he was going to drown. So, yes, he had a bad trip and got a bit retarded. He was high for about 4 hours. All of this said, I still feel a little high today, like reality is kind of hazy. This is all probably a result of the mixture.
I do not know about anyone else, but I will give this a few more tries. One mixture stated that catnip was in it… how does catnip effect/affect humans?
I will also be drug tested soon for volunteer work (I am a PhD Student working with a local psychiatric center)… I will let you guys honestly know if I pass. They have to do a full background test and blood/piss test. Stay tuned.
Well i m happy to see this discussion alive and informative. I myself have been researching this a lot and cant find any conclusive evidence to suggest people are getting sick or dying from it. I feel there are so many variables that one cant come to any real conclusion as of yet. these herb blends seem to be a major variable because for all we know one could be allergic to the ingredients like someone is to peanuts. I distribute a very reliable blend and it is only 2 ingredients the JWH and a plant source very known and very reliable. Ive yet to see anyone who is not on any medications or taking other drugs become ill or have any real problems. Now i have found some who have issues with the said plant source but clearly that will happen with any natural substance. some are allergic to some things and some are not. with that being said we give full disclosure on our products so our customers can research the source and come to their own decisions. each blend is perfectly balanced and you know when you buy from me its the best quality product. I will not give information in a thread as i only distribute to retail establishments. I do not sell to people on a single basis. we are now going to be distributing to a wide area of small businesses and will inform you when our products have hit enough areas. keep this thread alive and I will inform if any new facts arise.
thanks to all of you for the great info. enjoy your fun but please be smart about it. if you are on any medications do not mix and if you have allergies to any plant source be careful. any one with heart problems or lung problems like asthma do not use this stuff till more research id done.
well joseph, I think you are right about people with health problems should leave j8 alone untill there is more information about he long term effects of it, but personally I have enjoyed it along with my wife for about a year now.we are in our middle fifties and we both are on disability, I have had two heart atacks and am bipolar and also have copd and asthma, my wife has asthma moderate emphesema and clinical depression along with spinal stenosis, I take 14 pills in the morning and 12 a night, my wife takes about half that many, for us it is too risky to fail a drug test. I have had a couple of experiences that were unpleasant for a while , ya know like maybe I shouldn`t have did that last bowl, but the only serious problem I have had ……and maybe it wasn`t the j8 my doctor said I had too many enzymes in my liver, I haven`t used j8 in 3 days and I go for blood work tuesday, if the results show a lesser amount of enzymes I would conclude that the j8 was the culprit, also it is my opinion that anyone using j8 should make their own and use 190 grain alcohol, acetone scares me, it really sucks that the government has been so stupid in the past about legalities about such substances and maybe some day what GOD gave us will be legal as i t damn well should be, to be honest with anybody reading this I wish I had never heard about it {j8} PEACE
by the way so as not to confuse anybody the heart atacks I suffered were 9 yrs ago PEACE
say i have 3.5 grams of jwh-018, how much herbal substrate would i need for that amount? also do i just dilute the jwh in pure acetone and spray and mix herbal substrate until solution is gone and then just wait till it completely dries? I want to make it like k2 summit.
Thanks Jim for the in depth information on your conditions. This helps when dealing with medicated people. If you have been experiencing JWH for a year and have enjoyed it with no problems thats a really good sign. If you dont mind me asking could you fill me in on the specific meds you are taking after you get your liver results back? That information can really shed some light on what can mix with JWH and what may potentially not mix.
I will tomrrow, best regards, jim
I don’t imagine anyone on EITHER side of the JWH-018 Toxicity Issue will be coming out saying that the stuff is GOOD for you.
So maybe the basic question here should stay focused on HOW BAD IS IT, to what degree, in what amounts, and in what way(s)?
Too much of ANYTHING is bad or unhealthy or toxic… and addiction is an ugly word… but in my way of doing things it seems that moderate (a couple/few times a week) use of JWH-018 isn’t exactly KILLING me, as far as I can tell. Is it bad/toxic/unhealthy for me to take 2 or 3 hits of it a week? Maybe… but is it worth taking that chance? I think it is.
I KNOW what it was like using weed on a multi-daily basis for a few decades and how doing that affected me, and I’m happy to have quit doing that — TOTALLY. Nowdays, taking a few hits of my own personal JWH blend a week gets me by just fine… as well as being cheaper, legal, and overall less toxic as far as I can tell. Is it a substitute for weed? I don’t think so. It’s just what it is… good and/or bad for me as it may be!
The molecule has an unsubstituted naphtalene ring attached. Taking in account the metabolic pathways suggested on the following paragraph, it is quite possible that it produces epoxides as metabolism intermediates. Epoxides are known to be carcinogenic.
Metabolism: For JWH-018, the N-dealkyl metabolite could be detected as well as the hydroxylated metabolite. The highest signals could be observed for the hydroxylated N-dealkyl metabolites. Hydroxylation took place in the side chain and in both aromatic systems, the naphthalene and the indol part, which could be shown by mass shift of the corresponding fragments and by MS3 experiments.
Safety aside, can’t say I haven’t enjoyed these rc’s
Although I did have a 2-3 times where I ate way too much of #18 and got fucked to retardation.
Cliff:
There is absolutely no evidence that carcinogenic epoxides are produced as metabolic intermediates.
Yes…it’s theoretically POSSIBLE.
But the best information we have so far….namely these anonymous cytotoxicity/genotoxicity assays at the top of the thread…contains zero indication of carcinogenic properties.
Do you see anything in the assays themselves that raises a red flag?
Hi this msg is for X1
Hey buddy i love ur message.. Just a question if u dont mind help me.
I followed your direction regarding mixing jwh 018 and soluble solvent (190-proof Everclear)
I have done that to spray on Damian leaf, So here is my questions
1. How much Damian leaf i should soak it in the solution
(i mixed 500mg with 500mg of everclear)
2. If i want to add a flavor to it, do i mix the flavoring (liquid) in the mix(jwh 018 and everclear) and then soak the leaf (damiana) or soak the leaf (damiana) and then soak it in the flavor before drying.
3. When i dip the leafs in it, does it need to be all soaked up before take the leaf out or how does it work..
please try to answer these questions or anyone can help. I will appreciate that. thanks
Ricky Howell
Ricky:
Hi…ummm….thanks…..but I can’t really help you with preparing a plant for smoking.
If you go back you’ll see the only method I’ve explained is for doing an 018/073 mix in a quantity of 190-proof Everclear….and then ingesting a carefully measured liquid amount mixed with some juice.
You said “I mixed 500mg with 500mg of everclear”. Did you mean 500 mL of Everclear, and not mg? I’m sure you did.
I don’t know why you used so much Everclear. Recall that the method I posted called for dissolving 1g (1000mg) of JWH in only 400 mL Everclear. So, for 500mg JWH, you’d really only need 200 mL Everclear. Shouldn’t be too big an issue since you plan to spray onto leaf material, but you’re on your own with the ratios and dosage and so forth.
I’d recommend you not bothering smoking the stuff at all. Beverage is the way to go.
But if you are absolutely dead-set on making your own smoke-able product with that leaf, you’d better head on over to some place like Drugs-Forum and look for a good tek, or at least Google “jwh blend tek” or something similar.
Cheers
But still any idea x1. just woundering.. can u refer me to any decent forum p ost. thansk
Ricky,
I would use 12 grams Damiana…Bon Apetit for you..I had some K2 Summit- I smoked 4 hits once from a Bong….
The effects came on and I needed as shower so I headed in…After about 30 seconds I thought I would pass out in the shower. So I got out and my breathing was depressed. I thought my heart would fail. I became very paranoid of death at that time so I woke my teenage daughter up and asked her to hold her phone and call 911 if something happened. It wore off in 45 minutes and then I relaxed.
JWH-018 is very potent and people have different experiences. I think the oral method would be better. But i am sure some people want to make herbal smoke so they can sell or share it.
Start out slow if you smoke and wait 10 minutes or a little more after a hit- multiple hits can give you too much dose. 50 grams could put many people in the hospital unless they are a real “cosmonaut”.
Ricky,
with any spray application you will get some “hotspots” so be careful. I found that K2 Summit and Blueberry Summit had hotspots. But I think they stopped making those blends and now make something called K2 Ultra.
I battled bronchitis for 13 weeks and I think they Herbal smoke was the reason it was prolonged. I have never been sick that long in my life.
well berny i can say for sure that K-2 is not a safe product. not the JWH but what they use as their ingredients. many companies or individuals are putting all kinds of crap in their products and there has been some ramifications from doing this. the products i deal are 100% damiana and JWH-018. nothing else and i smoke it regularly with no issues. ive gotten so high i could barely walk one time and though my breathing was slightly depressed it was no different than real weed. be careful. if you want quality products and dont want the worry of not really knowing what your smoking only buy black mamba products. we have the best in the business and stand firm to those claims. the last thing we want is for people to have a bad experience. im into making money but never at the expense of someones health. i always use my product and would never sell to anyone without being a consumer first. i only chose to work for this brand because i found it to be the best. sure i could sell other products but it wouldnt sit right with me knowing that some stuff is being hidden from the public. plain and simple if your gonna smoke it anyways go with the black mamba products. youll pay a bit more but youll always know what your getting.
one last thing to add. damiana has been observed by the FDA as a general recognized as safe substance. or the GRAS list. clearly JWH-018 hasnt been evaluated but at least you know that damiana has been so if any problems arise you can at least narrow it down to JWH-018. very few people have allergic reactions to damiana. it happens on rare occasions but like anything your gonna get that.
I havent tried Black Mamba but I have used Rebel Spice. I can get Black mamba for 7/gram if I buy 100 grams.
Will it be save to bath 40gm of damiana leaf into a solution of jwh108 and everclear(500mg jwh018 and 400ml Ever clear)
please advice. thanks
Ricky –
I’d say it would be VERY safe to infuse 500MG of JWH-018 in 40GR of Damania using Everclear… from my own experience, I use a gram of 018 per 17 grams of dried parsley, and that works well for me. It results in a moderate single-hit dose that produces effects that are not toooo much and not too light.
Using the proportions you’re considering it seems likely you could roll that damania into a joint and get about the same results… guess it depends on how much you care to smoke (or not) to get the end results you want.
What would be better, bath or spray and if spray, how do spray so u dont have much of hotspots.. u know what i mean
thanks tim for replying.. apprecaite alot
I m not a big smoker just making small enough quantity for me..
After you mix the jwh 018 and ever clear, wha is the best possible way to infuse the leafs, . any recommendations thanks
My KISS method seems to work OK… just make sure all the Jwh-018 is well dissolved in the Everclear first, then put the parsley or whatever you’re using in the bottom of a pyrex or glass cake pan. Pour on the liquid and stir it up real good — it’ll all evaporate within a day or two.
I just stir it a few times till it’s all dried. There WILL be some extra-strong small particles/flakes/crystals maybe, but as far as “hot spots” go, if you just mix it up well you’ll still be in the ballpark if you you take a single hit — it won’t take much experimentation to find the right amount to use.
Does anyone else find that JWH-018 taken orally just doesn’t do much? I had originally started with a everclear-jwh mix by mixing 250 mg in 100 ml of everclear…I was taking up to 9ml doses with rather short lasting and subtle effects. I decided to mix my remaining mixture with some mint leaf and and try smoking it. A single small hit was considerably better than any oral doses I had tried. I can’t imagine I took more than a few mg in a hit, I mixed approximately 50mg in 1 gram of leaf.
JOE, that’s very strange.
Provided you were using 190-proof Everclear, and your JWH dissolved completely…..you should be getting at least a 3-hour deep stone with as little as 2-3 mL of your solution.
A 9 mL dose at your solution ratio (which is a good ratio) would be putting 22.5 mg JWH into your system at one shot….which is a VERY large and NOT recommended singular exposure. You should have been blitzed out of your farking mind.
At the same solution ratio I’ve topped out at a 5 mL dose, yielding 12.5 mg JWH, and there’s really no point trying to get any toastier than that….can’t imagine what an additional 10 mg on top of it would produce other than a large puddle of slobber.
Is there anything unique about your own personal chemistry that might cause an inhibition through oral ingestion? Are you on any regular medication?
P.S. JWH-018 is only half the story. JWH-073 tickles the other receptor. Really must recommend 018 AND 073 playing together to reap the full harvest.
X1,
No meds or anything like that, and I agree that 9ml seems like it would be way too much…and I certainly felt it at that dose but could have easily gone for more. I originally started with much smaller test doses but experienced only very subtle effects…often not noticeable unless listening to music. I mixed it exactly as you recommended…250 mg jwh (measured with a fairly accurate digital scale) dissolved in 100 ml of everclear (although I didn’t use any 073.) After being a little disappointed (don’t get me wrong 9 ml was quite enjoyable, but about what I would have expected from 3ml) with the oral doses I took my remaining test batch and added it to the mint leaves and it wasn’t until I did this that I experienced a high similar to what I had with one of the commercially available blends (curiosity about what was in them led me to this blog.) Could the drink I mixed it with be a factor? I tried it with a variety of drinks including orange juice and sprite.
No, the drink shouldn’t matter. I’ve used 3 different brands of orange juice, as well as lime-ade and some pomegranate juice. No difference.
What was the amount of your very first test dose, and how many incremental steps did it take to reach 9 mL….and over how many days? Just making sure you didn’t accidentally build up a tolerance by daily incremental testing.
AND would you agree your JWH seems reputable? Good source? You could probably name the vendor if you do it discreetly. Also want to eliminate the possibility of a product that’s been cut with something like baking soda….because there are some bastards out there doing that.
I’ve made Everclear batches with source material from two different reputable vendors and the pharmacological results have been exactly the same. My batch in one bottle gives the same result as the batch in the other bottle at the same dosage.
Obviously if you smoked it and got off, there is legit RC in the mix….just impossible to determine how much exactly it took to do the trick once it’s embedded into the plant material.
Be nice to figure this little puzzle out. Guess it’s also possible you have a naturally high tolerance to the stuff. You aren’t by any chance over 7 feet tall, and/or over 300 lbs., are you?
I started with a 2.5 ml test. I then worked my way up to 4 ml and when that didn’t seem to be much better 5-6 ml and most recently the higher 8 and 9ml tests. I spaced this out over weeks so I can’t imagine a tolerance was built up…I took it more frequently initially just to try and get a feel for how much worked and more recently its been just once or twice a week. As far as I know my researchchemicalz came from a reputable source. I should mention that I shared some with friends and they all agreed that the oral doses seemed rather subtle unless listening to music. I agree that it is impossible to determine how much was consumed but being that it was a single small hit and judging from all the material left (keep in mind what I put in this entire gram is just over double what I should have consumed with my 9ml test) I would have to guess it was an amount that if taken orally I wouldn’t have even felt…and this is puzzling to me. And no I am far from being unusually large…very average height and 130lbs haha. I wonder if the 073 is more active when taken orally than the 018? Although if I remember correctly you have had success with a purely 018 mix? I would like to avoid smoking anything, so it would be great to be able to solve this mystery haha.
No actually I haven’t done anything with just 018. From the first post I’ve only described/advocated the 018/073 mix at a 1:1 ratio.
That’s all I’ve ever tried. This is interesting. You have a markedly different result using just 018 than I do with an 018/073 mix. Hmmmmmm. My very first test with my first 018/073 batch was the same amount as your first test….2.5 mL….and I was zonked. It was not what I would call subtle. I got the deep red eyes and every other thing you’d normally associate with nature’s own THC…actually a much better result than anticipated.
Researchchemicalz is definitely for real. That’s my current go-to.
At this point I’m very interested for some other RC stuntpersons to chime in and say if they’ve tried an Everclear batch with 018 or 018/073. We need more info to determine whether your 018-only strikeout is the rule or the exception for the oral method. And I’d recommend you pick up some small equivalent quantities of 018 and 073 and try try again….in the name of science!
Sounds like I just might need to try some 073, unless someone else is using the pure 018 mix with success? If so then apparently something was off with my mix or the oral dosing method just doesn’t work for me for whatever reason. Maybe you could measure a very small amount of your 018 and take it orally to see whether it is effective without the 073?
x1– i also was in love with Researchchemicalz , but the 3 shipments were obviously cut or just really poor quality. I asked for my money back like they guarentee and instead they said they would ship a new batch of 73 to me, they did overnight it and send it for free but something is wrong with their supplier because this melts and smells so trashy ( like touline ) that im too scared to put it in my blend and sell to friends, or even total strangers. Its scarry to think that ReChmz which used to be great, developed a huge fan club and are now loosing most business because of crazy chem’s they are passing as jwh 018 and 73 ( and probably the rest of their jwh’s , Ioffer has a few good sources) I have collected 18 and 73 from 6 different sources , 5 out of 6 has 18 that is whitish tan with little lumps on top ( which is a good sign of good jwh 18) and the 73 is grainy almost like inside of an adderol and they only took around 2-5mg’s to work WELL. but Research Chemz was dull white powder (resembles baking soda) and takes at least 14mg for same effect. which is VERY Dangerous when it takes 1-2mg too much to bring the ‘fear’. I held off on giving my opinion until i had tried their free replacement ( in which they more than doubled the original amount i ordered but I didnt want MORE of the same TRASH, i wanted GOOD PRODUCT. but i guess it was too much to ask for!
***PS google dropped researchchemicalz.com as a sponser…hmmm maybe they know something i just figured out!
Overbuyincrap-
I can only speak to my own experience with the vendor we are discussing.
I should point out again that I have no affiliation with them at all.
And I should point out that none of us can be trusted, since we are all anonymous strangers with our own motives and agendas which may or may not be on the up and up.
Buyer beware.
Now then…
I haven’t had any shipments that seemed to be either cut or poor quality. I do have a brand new shipment from them that I haven’t batched yet, so when I have a chance to mix it and test I will definitely report back as to whether quality seems to have changed.
However, I must say, just looking at the packets, both the 018 and 073 appear virtually identical to my prior 100% effective shipments. The 018 is white, and the 073 is slightly tannish. This matches prior orders and is consistent with the product of another known good vendor. Won’t know more til I dissolve ‘em and take the Nestea plunge.
Overbuyincrap….not saying you are full of shit at all…..sometimes people can have wildly different experiences even when buying from Amazon….and here we are attempting to procure potentially shady powders from potentially fly-by-night webtailers. Life is risk. I have seen a couple of shots taken at the vendor we are discussing, with postings on product complaint forums, where it almost appeared that someone with a nasty grudge was trying to undercut their business with a false report of bad goods.
Overbuyincrap, can you tell me what was written on your packets from the vendor in question? Yes, I’m trying to test your legitimacy…please don’t take it personal. Obviously I want to figure out ASAP whether this vendor has gone to the dark side and between confirmation of your legitimacy, and my own test on this recent shipment, I should be able to help in warning off people if things have indeed gone sour with them.
Kind regards-
x1
absolutely! the two they sent to replace the poor q 73, said b – 18
1.2 g and they write g odd, you will know this and the one they were replacing said Bonsai 73 1.3 g all the G’s were uppercase and odd, they also send a flier for pills, and when the product was good they had no flier and the baggies had small rectangle white stickers with either incense 18 or incense 8 for 18 and 3 for 73 . Thank You for quick feedback!
also your 73 was tan? not mine it looks identical to the 18 and isnt crystally at all just dull white powder, doesnt have the usually pleasent floral smell, only touline smell when melted. Also when melted on foil both 18 and 73 melted then had a vibrant red tinge and put off so much more vapor than i have ever seen, plus the powder is WAY fluffier than i have ever seen! wish i could post pix so you can see! also..the flier is for serenity for diva’s, alphamale, energize, serenity all from naturesuphoria i have talked to a Preston and a TOmmy to resolve issues …just got same whatever they sent me…it wasnt JWH 18 or 73 if u ask me, i even asked them if they may have mislabeled my package but what they sent to fix the error was the same in everyway smell, look, volume by weight, melting red, smells like touline not floral or pleasent at all! Why would they only be sending ME this crap and keepin everyone else happy?
This is an very informative blog on JWH. Keep up the good work x1!
how can i get your email or give u mine without crazyppl writing me? i would also be worried about rechemz writen but they know who i am and they got my email ..Pleeze RCZ prove me wrong! make it RIGHT! they say “you get what you pay for” but i dont think i even got that plus im scared to make my blend because i dont want ppl sick or to die, these ppl are friends! I scanned most of the baggies that the good stuff came in and all the baggies w/ product in tact also took pix of them in front of your last post so you can see its live and me!
Overbuyincrap-
No, it’s OK, we don’t have to go to off-blog emails. You passed the test.
Now, could you please tell me what city your product shipped from? This isn’t a “test”….I’m trying to compare info.
Here’s the deal….my stuff from them has been shipping from Alpharetta / Georgia / USA.
The newest order which I just received has writing in black Sharpie on the packets, “B-18 1.2g” and “B-73 1.2g”, just as you mentioned. My envelope did indeed have the additional flyer for those slutty sex enhancement designer pills, just as you mentioned.
My previous order before this one had the stickers on the packets, instead of the writing….just as you mentioned. Also, the previous order did not contain a flyer….just as you mentioned.
You may have noticed the name “NUTRAGENOMICS, LLC” on your packing slip.
Check it:
http://us103667002.trustpass.alibaba.com/
You’ll see some of the same sex enhancement products along with the typical RCs…some of the same pictures from that tacky flyer.
Notice the About Us page:
http://us103667002.trustpass.alibaba.com/aboutus.html
The home base listed is Alpharetta GA USA.
These are the folks behind “researchchemicalz”, the site which you and I have frequented.
This is just informational…this has no bearing on product legitimacy….just thought you would like to know it.
Now, let me comment on what you said about 073, and “tan”.
Yes, my 073 powder is a light tan color. If you search around on the internet, you will find that 073 is SUPPOSED to be tan. Previously I have acquired 073 from the reputable international vendor buythemg, and the 073 was tan….and that is probably the most reliable outlet in the world (but not cheap!).
I am bothered that you say the replacement “073″ they sent you had “B-18″ written on it. See, they are calling the two chemicals “Bonsai 18″ and “Bonsai 73″, and they are shorthanding “B-18″ and “B-73″ on the packets. Soooo, if you got a packet that was supposed to be 073, but it has “B-18″ written on it and it is white……that most likely ain’t 073. More likely it is 018. Obviously that would be an error on their part, and without even speaking to the question of whether it’s good 018, cut 018, or pure shit.
So, the plot thickens. It could be that they’ve got some illiterate n00bs working there recently who keep sending you the wrong shit. Or it could be something more sinister and nefarious, like they are starting to cut or switch products or outright scam…although I can’t see the point of taking so much time and effort to stand out as a legitimate reputable source, only to eventually squander it with shady practice or bunk product.
I’ll just jump in and reiterate that buythemg is about as close to bulletproof as I’ve seen, so if researchchemicalz goes belly up on credibility, there’s still a solid option out there. Just costs more and is a bit more hassle with the payment methods and ship time.
I may not have a chance to mix and test my latest RC til Saturday, and I am indeed now very curious as to whether what I’m holding here is still the good old chuff of a few weeks ago. I’m encouraged that my 073 packet seems consistent with what I’ve come to expect….but buddy you’ve got me worried that my 018 packet may be dodgy. Hope not.
You might share this conversation with researchchemicalz directly through their email/contact form and see what they say, just for the hell of it. If you do, post their response here!
Meanwhile please anyone else who has experience or knowledge on recent researchchemicalz purchases, speak up and let us know good or bad what you’ve seen! This was a solid option and we need to nail down quick whether they’ve flopped.
To: x1
I would like to say that you have exceptional comments on this blog. Very informative and helpful. I am not affiliated with researchchemicalz.com. I know from my past association with them that they are legitimate, reliable, and reputable. Anything regarding issues with quality of products has to be caused by inadvertent errors on their part. I can assure you it is not intentional.
Researchchemicalz.com is not a small-time operation. They also own and operate naturescientist.com and naturesuphoria.com. If anyone is having any problems with them or would like to thank them for their quality product please call Alec Nicholas, National Sales Director for all their operations. Alec’s personal cell phone is 404.978.5746. Tell him I gave you the number so he can help. He is a real cool dude!
I should jump in and say that my shipment (my first and only so far) from researchchemicalz came with the flyer you mention and the 018 was in a small plastic bag with “bonsai 018 1.3 grams” written in sharpie on it. I’m starting to wonder whether I received a less than quality product, oral doses certainly weren’t anywhere close to what I expected. X1, I will be interested to hear your verdict on your latest shipment. Like I said earlier when I smoked it it sure seemed to be legit but I wonder if they have replaced their 018 with something completely different altogether that isn’t as active when taken orally?
yes, same place in Ga, I complained about 1g of 73 that i bought, it was dull powder white powder , no granules just powder. So they said they would overnight 73 to me and make up for it. I received their envelope, again with flyer, it had 2g’s of 73 and 1g of 18, the 73 is all white powder, again, and has not tan to it at all, the 18 was 75% white powder 25% granules, I poured the 18 on the flier and used a vibrating toothbrush touching the side of paper to sort the powder from the granules. before i did this the 18 woul melt bright red on foil and the ‘new’ 73 also burnt bright red and had the biggest vap cloud ive ever seen! I used to get really good stuff from them but now it appears to be badly cut , possibly to supply the huge demand now that they are so ‘reputable’ or possibly their supplier in asia/china is screwing them! they emailed me this when i complained about the batch prior to this issue (march 1st)
Colors can vary depending upon the batch. See attached Assay report. Our stuff is 99.6-99.8%
researchchemicalz.com
Certificate of Analysis
Product Name
naphthalen-1-yl-(1-butylindol-3-yl)methanone
CAS No.
208987-48-8
Batch Qty.
100g
Mfg.Date
2008-10-15
Date of Analysis
2008-10-18
RESULT OF ANALYSIS
TEST
SPECIFICATION RESULTS
Appearance
White crystalline powder
White crystalline powder
Assay
>98%
99.26%
Remarks
The product conforms to the above specifications
ANALYZED BY
CHECKED BY
APPROVED BY
Jingjing Zhu
Feiming Li
Yongming Liu
notice how long ago that test was and im sure they have sold over 100g worth since then, im not the only one seeing this HUGE decline of quality!
so… im no chemist so i dont know if there is any usable portion of the 73 they sent me,im too scared to try it , dont wanna die due to unknown fillers! Its so dangerous to cut anything letalone JWH which is active between 1mg-3mg , more like 15mg-25mg of there recent stuff, which even cutting a 10th of it cause bad ratio’s and possibly bad health issues.
I would much rather ReChemz to come out and say “We had bad shipments, were sorry , we will replace your bad with good, not just more bad!
And how about Pictures of your Product on your site?
and a members comments board? where is the accountability here? I know you are US based but if your stuff is made here, why are all the ‘chemist’ who tested your stuff from china?
I will save my monies and go to sacra or buythe i guess, sucks because ReChemz has quick shipping, If only they didnt replace my 1 g of bad 73 with 2g of bad 73 and 1g of severely cut 18 , i have pix of all of this for those who think i’m a competitor trying to dirty up their rep, not the case.
JOE be careful! Try pouring your 18 on their flyer, tapping the edge so that the granules bounce out of the powder, use a vibrating something to speed it up, if yours is like mine you will see granules being seperated from the powder, then melt a lil of the granules on foil and see how it melts, then on new foil melt the powder, Does it melt red? does it smell different then usual? you probably oraled some baking soda or other (hopefully non toxic) filler! Glad to see im not the only out here!
TO: Joe & Overbuyincrap, I have given you a direct contact to researchemicalz.com to resolve your issues and you are still complaining over the quality issue. Why don’t you first resolve the issue with Alec at the company and report the progress of your resolution on this board. Right now, it appears that you are whining and doing nothing about it. You have a contact number and name. Alec is National Marketing Director. I am sure he needs to hear about unsatisfied customers. Don’t you think? I think we all on here would like to see you resolve the issue and move on.
Willie, i just received an email that says my money has been re-credited to my account , when it goes through i plan to update every post i have reached out to! I have had about 10 emails back and forth with them so I AM DOING my part! Now im just trying to help the people who have the same issue at this time! If you are there friend, you probably get the pure stuff, WILLIE if you read the previous posts you can see that i have been in contact with them. They say they are giving my money back, so i will post when it hits my bank! Willie, i dont think yo should give out Alec’s personal number like that, hints PERSONAL number! he seems very nice and even though i have had this bad experience, i still wouldn’t give everyone that info, maybe the 800 number on the site but not the guys cell i have more respect thats why im only being factual and totally fair, I will say that Research Chemz seems to be very ethical when it comes to quick response, and money back guarantee.
I need to say this again. I am in no way affiliated with researchchemicalz.com. I have a good working relationship with them and respect their reputation in the Southeast.
Again, Researchchemicalz.com is not a small-time operation. They also own and operate naturescientist.com and naturesuphoria.com. If anyone is having any problems with them regarding quality or would like to get nice special deals, please call Alec Nicholas, National Sales Director for all their operations.
Alec’s personal cell phone again is 404.978.5746. Tell him I gave you the number so he can help. He is a real cool dude! I am not getting anything from this. I just like this US company and their efforts to provide quality products and service. Alec will take care of you.
if you have a good working relationship with them, you are somewhat affiliated and it seems that u are trying to smear my Honest Report so you can get and i quote “or would like to get nice special deals, please call Alec Nicholas, National Sales Director for all their operations.” ,”Tell him I gave you the number so he can help.” or so you can get better dealz by smudging real user opinions ? You can keep saying the same thing , im not affiliated at all , but usually when someone is that defensive…you are affiliated or at least Bias! So….x1, Joe, I would love to hear from ya! willie, come on guy, if i wanna hear you repeat yourself i can scroll UP lol
To: Overbuyincrap. I just spoke with Alec by phone and told him I gave out his personal cell phone to help resolve issues with his products. He has no problems with me giving you or posting his cell phone. This is his job to stay on top of these issues and make sure customers are satisfied. He is cool with me doing this Overbuycrap. Talk with Alec the next time you have problems.
Overbuyincrap, You are not familiar with me. I can understand your assumptions about me. Individuals like x1 and others know that I have been posting for a while. They also know that I am not affiliated with the company. I have a good working relationship with several on-line businesses. A good working relationship does not mean affiliation. I read your posts about the quality of your products from the company. Since I am familiar with Alec and the company I suggested that you call him to resolve any issues. I am not trying to belittle you or your reporting on the matter. Simply trying to help you resolve an issue. It seems like what’s important here is problem resolution. Don’t you think?
the thing is they knew i knew the quality was low, so they send more of the same batch? doesnt make sense. I just want people to know there is an issue wit quality right now and it may not be a good idea to make a blend and give it / sell it to friends. Not that ReChemz is a horrible place, they have been good to me even though they couldnt produce better quality for their ‘replacement’ they sent for free, they ARE refunding my money, it hasn’t hit the bank yet but it probably will . To all those who have ordered around April 1 let me know if my experience was isolated or widespread! Thankyou!
This is a very good conversation.
Overbuyincrap-
There’s a lot riding on whether your money actually hits back into your bank account or not. Keep us posted.
Willie-
I have noticed the ReChemz gang is very proactive about getting out on the web and talking to people, very proactive about telling people to call if they have problems, etc.
Frankly I’ve not seen another outfit selling these RCs that actually has any sort of “customer service” component, even if some of it may be smoky rhetoric. So they do get “communication” points just for the fact that you can call and somebody actually picks up and might actually give a damn.
That said….bad chem is bad chem. We really need more buyer/user reports…I’m surprised since this thread took off there aren’t more reports right here. I’m certain ReChemz is selling uber kilos of this stuff based on their above-average internet presence, but you wouldn’t know it by using your search engine and trying to find others talking about them.
That was actually cool that they gave out the assay info with the Chinese names on it. Let’s not be under any illusion that any of this stuff is made in the USA. There’s a strong US distribution presence now, but it’s virtually all Chinese lab product.
If you buythemg…which so far as I can tell is the most reliable product hands down…it comes to you in a little envelope that traveled from mainland China to Taiwan to the USA, as you can tell from the stamping on it.
The advantage of ReChemz is purely in the high-volume importing they are doing which allows them to undercut everybody else in cost.
I’d be extremely curious to know if anyone can verify the existence of even a single commercial lab outside of China manufacturing the ol’ JWH.
To: x1
I am in total agreement with you.
Regards,
Willie
my point is the assay was for 100g of product almost 3 years ago ( 2008-10-15 ) i know they have sold more than 100′gs in that amount of time and that wasnt the ASSAY for the stuff they sent me!…isnt that fishy to you x1? and no sign of moola yet but it hasnt even been 24 hours since they said they posted it so i will be patient. how did your package look x1? another guy on another blog has similar issue bottom of page
http://www.kogged.com/2009/10/potential-jwh-018-scams/comment-page-2/#comment-2054
and buythemg is member only and not accepting clients right now — very responsible thing to do –
any experience with sacra?
Right, you need to keep hitting buythemg’s blog every day until they re-open registration so you can surely get in for good. They’re funky.
Yes an assay from 2008 is strange and unhelpful. Not to mention….stuff is only supposed to be stable as powder for a year.
It would be ridiculous if ReChemz were for some reason selling off an ancient batch that they had in a shed somewhere….but gee, wouldn’t that explain much of the weird behavior of your product….the funky smell, the red, the diminished potency, etc.?
The plot EVEN MORE thickens. Now I am really damn curious.
My package LOOKS okay, but that means nothing. I mean, it’s two small baggies inside a larger baggie…with the sharpie writing….B-18 is white, B-73 is tan. I’d say it’s a bit ghetto.
Buythemg rocks. You get a vacuum-sealed foil packet. You feel like you bought a real drug. It’s a good feeling.
What is “sacra”?
sacraresearch.com is who i was referring to, and my 73 had no tannish look at all so you might be better off than i was but the 18 looks powdery with granules and like above you can vibrate them apart, i was left with 250 mgs of good jwh 18 out of 1.2 Grams of powdery stuff. i will keep on the prowl for buythemg
I was able to separate a small sample of my 018 into granules and powder like Overbuyincrap described and I melted each on separate sheets of tinfoil. They both melted into a clearish slightly amber liquid, no red color. My order was placed on March 11th. Something still seems suspicious though considering the large doses I was taking orally with disappointing results…like I said earlier when smoked it is pretty much what I would expect.
I’m not sure “granules” vs “powder” is a reliable litmus test.
All the material I’ve procured from two separate vendors (which has all been A+ thus far) has been powder WITH some granules.
It’s those damn granules that cause people problems when they smoke it without precisely dosing by milligram weight, since you can’t tell how “heavy” those fatter crystals are by eyeballing them. People think they are smoking what looks like a safe amount but then they burn into some of the larger crystal and whooosh off they go above and beyond the moderate zone.
Dissolving in 190 Everclear my experience has been those fatter crystals are the last to dissolve. They clump up at the bottom of the solution and need a little bit of help with manual agitation, crushing, and stirring before they finally give up the ghost and become one with the fluid around them.
Thanks for the sacra tip, Overb- I registered and am awaiting acct activation. Interesting they want to specifically claim “manufactured” in the USA. I would love it IF TRUE. My brief Google sleuthing turned up the eBay name sacraresearch with 100% positive feedback on transactions through Sept. 2009. Comments from some of the buyers do seem to indicate these were JWH sales. I am encouraged by the spotless feedback and comments, as well as the writing and overall thrust of the sacra website…not as sloppy as ReChemz where it looks professional at first until you start to notice the juvenile typos (like the word “carrys” on the ReChemz main page).
I’ll be interested to see the prices and compare to buythemg.
I do like that they are doing a laser-focus on cannabinoids, instead of a grab-bag of different chemicals. It is rather a turnoff to buy a cannabinoid and get a glossy advert in your envelope trying to sell you pills to enhance your erection. My erection needs no enhancement.
Cheers
i too jus tplaced on sacra and went with fedex ground better tracking than ups….so hopefully by friday!
We’ll have to compare notes. I’ve also taken the plunge.
Price per gram is the same as ReChemz. Much better website and smooth Google checkout.
Things are going to get VERY interesting in this thread in a couple days folks!
Now, if the sacra stuff shows up in a baggie with black sharpie scrawled on it and an erection enhancement flyer, I might cry a little.
I had excellent luck with JWH-018 Supplier. It seems to be perfect and very potent. I only posted this after following the last few days. Not promoting, but just saying it was also in foil packet and very up and up. Price is great too, and shipping was 4 days.
Expeienced my first oral buzz, that’s the way to go. They have no -073 though…
Hello everyone. I find all of these posts very interesting to say the least. We have a 100% money back guarantee. We will replace product free of charge. In this game, it is possible to get bad batches of product. Therefore that’s why we offer to replace or refund when a customer isn’t happy. Simply send back what you didn’t use and we’ll replace or refund. That simple. We’ll take care of the rest with our supplier.
Yes, we use baggies for our chemicals, because that’s what they are. “Raw Chemicals”. If you want pretty packaging, ask us about our line from Natures Uphoria and, the new Mister Miyagi Herbal Incense
We also market pre-packaged fully marketable end use products. We have some of the best on the market. So, that flyer in our package is simply to make our customers aware of what we offer as far as being a distributor for one or more of our lines. You see most of our customers are actual businesses and they’re looking to make an income through more than one revenue stream and inserting this flyer has proven to be a quite beneficial move for expanding our business. If you don’t like the flyer, ok. Sorry to have wasted your time pointing out some products that can make you some more money.
So, if anyone who is reading these posts wants to actually speak to one of us and see how you feel afterwards, then please call our “toll free #” that is answered during business hours. Or email me at info@naturesuphoria.com
We are a real, legitimate business with over 75 years collective business experience in this area.
Tommy
I inhaled a hit 18 minutes ago. It was only 1-1.5 mg JWH -018 on top of a couple flakes of cheap damiana store bought spice. In only 3 minutes my legs went a little weak and the heavy onslaught of a good rip began to flow. No paranoia but I am sure only 1 more mg would have been more than I need being alone, as I like company usually.
It really is a weird buzz compared to real greens. The bottom of my ribcage gets tight. My mind slows down and I have to think a little harder. LOL, damn…
Even though Ive had a bad experience ReChemz are still pretty ethical and have great customer service. I have no problem with the other items they are selling or how they market them my issue was with cut or low quality 073 and 018. I will send all of my jwh 073 back to them , and if there new batch is up to par i will buy from them but not until then. So consider this matter Semi Closed, Still waiting for the refund to hit my bank but my bank usually takes 24 hours .
Thanks for the input everyone , i think i have it resolved but still no cheddar n bank. but i changed my nick from overbuyincrap i made it up in the heat of the moment and hopefully its no longer needed.
Tommy-
Thanks for joining the discussion. I certainly recognize researchchemicalz as 100% legitimate, as I have obtained 100% legitimate material from you.
And you guys are ace in customer service. Cheers for that.
Now then, you say “In this game, it is possible to get bad batches of product.”
Well, why aren’t you folks testing your product stateside after it comes off the boat? Seems logical, yes? Does researchchemicalz not have the wherewithal to conduct an assay of its own when receiving large volumes of new merchandise? Are you folks just importers/exporters, and not a single organic chemist among you?
If so, I recommend you hire a Quality Control person with an organic chemistry background.
You say “If you want pretty packaging, ask us about our line from Natures Uphoria and, the new Mister Miyagi Herbal Incense”
Who said they want pretty packaging? I think we were discussing how other vendors supply material in a vacuum-sealed foil packet. It’s still in a little baggie once you tear open the sealed packet. Wouldn’t you agree that a vacuum-sealed foil packet is more secure, both from the elements, and eyeballs, than a mere Ziploc bag with something scrawled on it in black Sharpie? And more professional? Wouldn’t you agree that it inspires more confidence in the product?
I’m sure your Mr. Miyagi herbal whatever is very very pretty, but who cares?
Also, I want to mention that the word is “carries,” not “carrys”. You might want to pass that along to the person who handles your website, so they can fix it on the researchchemicalz homepage. The sentence as posted reads “Researchchemicalz.com is a company that carrys…” Sorry to be a spelling/grammar nazi but I cringe when I see that, because it is so unprofessional.
I know I’m sounding like a harsh a-hole but I do appreciate you actually showing up and putting a word in, and please take our comments to heart! We need strong ethical vendors and serious quality control….this is not too much to ask when the amount of money being made out there is taken into consideration.
Cheers-
To: x1,
Well said and I agree %100 with your assessment.
Regards,
Willie
Hi X1
Maybe we should hire you? Feel free give me a call on my cell and we can discuss all of this. 949-836-3099
Would love to see some of your work. I mean I am sure many would like to know your credentials. As it does appear you are an expert.
Where do you have your JWH 018 tested? Would love to know that one.
Vendors weighing in on ethics etc is great, but let’s be careful not to let this turn into some kind of customer support thread.
I may have to start pruning…
Also, lol at #276.
Tommy:
Never mind your cell phone. We can discuss this here, out in the open. I see the recent success of researchchemicalz has gone to your head. Shame. This always happens…good for a while and then the arrogance creeps in, and things go to shit.
You guys were on your game a few weeks ago. I’ve recommended you on this blog, which you will discover if you go back and read through the comments. I feel that I have been fortunate to get quality material from you. I regret that I do not have that same supreme confidence in your most recent shipment. But this is a conversation that can be helpful to those who find it, as it highlights the murkiness and peril of fishing around in the universe of RC biz, looking for the holy grail of ace quality and ace service.
Certainly I’m not an expert. I’m a consumer. The credentials should be on your end. The expertise should be on your end. Right?
I guess it’s a trust and communication issue. If you guys don’t have any serious way to check what you’re selling, that’s understandable. You import, chop up, sell, roll in the dough….no science necessary. Perfectly understandable. But by all means lets have that conversation out in the open, so all present and future RCers, both commercial and recreational, can see plain as day what’s going on, and let the marketplace sort out the most reliable from the least.
Certainly you would agree with that sentiment, Tommy? That the marketplace thrives on vigorous competition, transparency, and swift dissemination of maximum information?
Tell ya what. I’m going to take my most recent small shipment from researchchemicalz, that which resides in the ghetto ziploc with the black sharpie scrawled on it (which may be perfectly good for all I know!)…and chuck it in the trash. Call it “acceptable loss”. I know buythemg is all-around superior. I’m giving this other sacra joint a whirl to, and I’ll be sure to lay down a full report on that when it comes in.
Tommy, how ’bout let us know if you finally learn how to play the game well enough to guarantee a consistent product. Shouldn’t be too hard, what with all those accumulated years of experience you were touting earlier. I hope one day to be able to recommend you guys again with no reservation. Thanks for the good times (which were indeed VERY good while they lasted!).
Cheers-
It appears to me that you’re trying to provoke me.
We do have quality control measure in place. One thing, even when a consumer comes across as an expert, some of those people may just want to know.
And, yes we have a scientist, chemist, and a naturopathic dr on our staff. So, why not let’s discuss this anywhere. I have done nothing but respond politely to everything you have said.
I asked a simple question of you. If it’s too big an issue for you to tell us who you are, then I think that speaks volumes. Again just so everyone can see on this BLOG. We stand behind our products and offer a 100% replacement or refund guarantee.
Gone to my head? Are you kidding me? Be for real dude.
PS, X1
Why not just a request a refund? Or replacement? It’ll be to you the very next day. Or, are you trying to accomplish some other goal?
Tommy-
You are sharp. YES, I am trying to provoke you.
I am trying to provoke you into working harder to make sure nobody gets bad chem that burns funny and smells wrong and might be nasty business. And I am trying to provoke you into fixing a sophomoric spelling error on your home page.
I don’t mean you personally of course. But it’s better for the business all around if the buyers and sellers occasionally light fires under each other’s arses (I use “arse” out of respect for the UK origin of this blog).
You have quality control? You have a scientist, chemist, and naturopath on staff? Which one of them are qualified to test your batches for purity? You seemed to be implying that you did not test, so if that is not the case, by all means, let’s correct the record.
I didn’t realize you needed my actual identity along with my credentials. I went over my credentials before. I am a non-expert consumer. With regard to my actual identity, I am your “customer”. Your once-and-hopefully-again-in-the-future customer.
Other goal than a refund or replacement? YES. I did say you were sharp, after all. The money is a pittance. And what would I be swapping for? I’m still not clear on your quality control “measure”. It seems very mysterious and enigmatic. My “other goal” is to toss what may or may not be bunk chem into the garbage can and not have to worry about it, since the marketplace is still a vibrant place and there is at least one other better option out there. Not on price, surely…but, again, the money is a pittance.
I hope I have provoked you into vigorous internal discussion at ReChemz Central Command Alpharetta at least a little bit….if only enough to get that damn word fixed on your home page.
Cheers-
Shitfire! It’s fixed! It now says “carries”!!!!!!!!!
Bless you Tommy.
i just landed an account with a head shop that has been selling JWH products for 7 years. 2003 is when it first hit the streets from what ive researched and this guy moves massive quantities. so in those 7 years he has had all kinds of people buying and no one has ever reported any side effects. that tells me we may be closer to knowing more about it. ill inform when i get more details.
UPDATE,
It does seem that ReChemz are really trying to make it right with me, they even overnighted 2g of 18 for free, and i will update here once again . x1, i have talked to 2 other guys who ordered around the same time i did and there product seemed up to par, and you may very well have great product waiting for you. I will say again, im a annoyingly persistent guy and EVERY email i sent or call i made was quickly answered. Even based on my last few experiences (considering most places dont even reply when u email neg or pos comments) I must say REChemz is still way above par on Customer Service and do appear to be doing what they can to clear their name with me. And lets just say i could have been alot nicer in these emails and they could have been rude about it but they were very nice and professional Its a rare quality in such a demanded RC world where it may take months to hear a response, let alone getting replacement material within 3 days of complaint.
Like i said, I will update when i receive new shipment and i will leave my opinion.
Choose to have a PEACEFUL day!
josepph….its hard to report side effects on items marked not for human consumption so i wouldnt take lack of neg reports to as proof that there is no side effects, there ARE side effects with the HERBS theirsekvels, let alone with jwh
does anyone know foresure with out a doubt if this will show up in your pee after not using for 5 day?
It will not Show up unless its mandated by MILITARY, most places especially with instant test haven’t synthesized the chemicals so its unlikely. I do believe Gov is now testing for it in military but other than that…not yet, I have passed 3 UDS and 1 swab and Nothing but my prescribed medicine. You Will pop dirty for THC if A) your body hasn’t fully metabolized the pot in your system from your last used Mj, Or you have been Naughty and used your trusty old friend that STILL has resin from MJ even if you think its ‘clean enough’. Buy a new loose incense burner and there ya go get a nice one at lo’ bobs for 10 dolla
Hi Guys,
Don’t know alot about JWH-018 and am hoping you might be able to help. Friend of a friend had it sent to her in a country where it’s illegal (not illegal where it was sent from) but now the police are involved and have taken hair samples. She hasn’t had any for about 6 weeks and then it was only a small ammount. Any ideas if she’s gonna be in trouble or will it not show up on hair tests?
Thanks in advance!
or B) your mix had real cannabis in it….very doubtful because these people are trying to fill a LEGAL demand (for now anyway) for a Product that people wil buy alot of..so why would they screw it up? or your buddies played a horrible prank why you were passed out and they shotgunned you into ‘Nice Dreams’
I used the SAME day for ALL tests and heh hum itz all godd baby but dont be dumb dont rub it in the local Police or PO officer because thats what will get the prohibition wheels a turnin which leads to the REAL reason , but we continue to prevail towards psychoactive freedom
oh boy , im rambling ….ReChemz finally made me Smile! No money posted in bank from refund but my bank is a credit union might take another day. Very fast Shipping they literally sent me an email like 25 hrs ago and got my package like 22 hours after they sent receipt…Quickest delivery ive had! But yes Im finally dropping the whole thing as a fluke , the 18 is still white and very fluffy but seems to be active between 2mg-5mg and im finally applying to my roots hopefully i get a few cm’s this month! TTYL
well laws are usually retroactive, like if they make beer illegal tomorrow , you cant get in trouble for still being drunk or having alcohol in your system…but honestly i dont know how long it takes to metabolise jwh but if she just did incense its usually so small of a dose per gram it may not show up…let us know of the results! i want to learn as much as i can about this…
Absynthetics–
What country are you in that laws are usually retroactive? If you live in America and you think that the government can make something illegal today– and charge you with said crime- because you broke a law that didn’t exist last week? I’m sorry, but the legal system works in a way that prohibits you from being arrested for a crime that wasn’t a crime at the time of violation. If you heard this shit from a cop, I’d talk to a lawyer.
Just wondering– If your “friend of a friend” is not mentally competant enough to check out the laws involved during international transactions, then she should be having to deal with the consquences of being a dumb fuck. Who orders RCs internationally without researching pertinant laws?
Let me advise you a bit here. Tell your “friend” that the internet in which she ordered her RCs has a tool called “Google”. Then say,” You can type things into the little box provided and it will tell you valuable information which may keep your dumb ass out of prison. You should have done your research a lot earlier. These kinds of uninformed, ignorant actions just make things tougher on us that are trying to legally get by. Keep up the good work, dumb ass, you’re going to fuck it up for everyone because you’re too lazy to do your research. You should not be allowed to sniff Vick Vapor Rub, much less get near anything that requires you to light a flame.”
Spead this advice to any other “friends of friends” that you may have. It will serve you well.
how long does it stay in your system just incase it does get mandated for a ua test?
Who are you to call me or my friend a dumb ass or a fuck witt?! READ MY POST! She was sent it from somewhere that was legal – she did not order it online and did not even ask it to be sent to her.
Not mentally competant enough? – take a look in the mirror!! You obviously have no social skills at all!! Giving people on the internet shit to make your sad self feel better
“These kinds of uninformed, ignorant actions just make things tougher on us that are trying to legally get by” and exactly HOW is this effecting you? and exactly what justification do you have for being so abusive?
Go take a long walk off a short cliff and do everyone a favor!
” Friend of a friend had it sent to her in a country where it’s illegal (not illegal where it was sent from) but now the police are involved and have taken hair samples.”
According to that statement, she had it sent to herself in a country where it was illegal. She didn’t ask for it to be sent to her? What company is this that is randomly sending out active freebies?
The police being involved will only happen a few more times before we lose legal groud because of the negative attention that jwh 018 is receiving.
How is it smart is to get mixed up in an international drug bust because you didn’t check out simple facts that were available?
Well, at least I understand the simple scientific fact that if I walk off a cliff, gravity will take effect. Maybe your friend should start with a few simple brain teasers to help ease to pain of reading. And as a matter of fact, I am doing you a favor by letting you know that you would not have to ask for legal advice on a site such as this if you used common sense.
And what is a “fuck witt”?
And by the way, my sad ass is sitting here enjoying my freedom… let us know how you (or your so called friend) like prsion rape. Maybe you can read a book with all that time on your hands.
Ok ebough of this shit…you really are a numpty! It IS a friend of a friend….her mate sent it to her as it is readily available in Ireland. They are only 19 so not very wise when it comes to things like this.
I wasn’t asking for legal advise only wanted to ask some one if they knew about hair testing. You obviously don’t as you haven’t given ANY advise only went off on one as you clearly have some anger issues getting so shitty on a forum.
I too am enjoying my freedom and have nothing to worry about was just trying to help a friend. I also just got some really usefull information from another site and they don’t have to worry about hair tests.
No need for any more of your shitty comments – I will no longer be getting email responses from your posts – enjoy your miserable state!
To add ,for your benefit, though, all bitchiness aside, my source at LabCorp says there is no hair test that is standard in this situation for the general public and the companies hiring the general public that LabCorps provides testing for (this is only the US as far as I know). The military in the US have the means of testing for jwh-018, so it’s really depending on how indepth they want to go. I’ve heard rumored that the european nations we are familiar with are devising a UA. Not too sure about that rumor, though.
Sorry for the roughness– I hate to see people do stupid and preventable things to themselves. Did your friend actually sign or accept a package literally into her hands, or did it get caught up in customs and end up hand delivered by the cops?
Stop arguing.
THANK U Synchronium , and I feel stupid for say are retroactive i meant most places they aren’t retro , i live in US and it will be an issue here soon enough…wish they would realize that Prohib isnt working for pot and if they do the same to ja dub people will just find something more dangerous and not studied on humans. If only there was a plant that grew from earth that you cannot OD on and can also be used for …fuels, clothes, jewelry, rope, paper, and to peacefully calm almost all who use it…that would be the perfect plant …. wake up ppl! ITs time for OUR CULTURE to rise and take over this wasteful, evil, and obtuse way of thinking and controlling our life’s!
2grams jwh-018 +2grams jwh-073 + 8oz. everclear = what amount of high potency incense?……..anybody know for sure? I would guess 4oz?
To: Jim
250ml/4,000mg =0.0625
Don’t quite know what you are asking.
Seriously, you should know what countries you’re dealing with. The asian laws are harsh. Whereas a gram of something in the USA can get you probation and some fines, some countries have the death penalty. It never hurts to check.
To: Jim,
I had to reread your comment. The norm is 1 gram of jwh dissolved into 400ml or 500ml of 190% proof everclear then 1 or 2 ounces of herbs are soaked. This is the norm. You can do your calculations from your doubling the jwh’s.
What keeps JWH-018 interesting and fun for me is that I don’t use it more than once every few days.
At this level, EVERY time I use it, it reminds me, like for the FIRST time, what it is I enjoy about it… and it feels fresh and new instead of the same old chronic buzz that pot got to be after decades of daily use.
ONE HIT is all it takes, too. What a letup it gives on my lungs and heart!
A buddy of mine and I went in together and got some JWH-081, 018, 073, and 200… he’s gonna be mixing ‘em all together in what I can only assume will be a super-special way/proportion and we’ll see what comes out of it all. Will keep y’all posted when the results come in.
I’m also actively looking for RESEARCHERS who’ve never tried any of these substances before, and will be happy to send out some free samples for testing and feedback purposes –if that applies to you, let me know if you’re interested in helping out. Your privacy will assured; email me at jsots@msn.com.
does anyone know how long it takes spice to leave your system please respond thanks.
????- no but if you find a credible source with an answer please share..
Does anyone know the legal status of WIN 55 , 212-2 and any experiences to boot? have my own sources but dont wanna break the law. Live in The corn state, United States , i wanna live to BC or holland, somewhere not so obtuse about MJ . But any input may help TY
Tim-
Right on. In moderation, this stuff does not get old. Keeping at least a 1-day buffer between uses seems to almost totally reset the tolerance level. But I’m more of a once-a-week user, and through oral ingestion to boot, which is a heavy, long-lasting stone (this is the 018/073 combo).
I have no complaints, other than stomach pains from gorging upon cookies+ice cream+peanut butter during the hardcore munchdown that hits at about the 2.5-hour mark. All the classic, quality reefer hallmarks are there with regard to humor, music, sex, food…but without the reefer. It’s really quite amazing.
Please do report back about the JWH 4-pack experience. I feel like 018/073 together is wonderfully balanced and complete already, so I’ll be especially curious to hear whether any further enhancement is possible.
Absynthetics-
WIN 55,212-2 is not controlled. But if I understand correctly it is both more expensive and less potent than JWH-018.
FYI my order from Sacra came in today. Can’t speak to the quality of the actual product yet, but we definitely have a winner on the superficialities of product packaging. Product is contained in packets with printed labels (no sharpie) INSIDE a sealed foil packet….INSIDE a larger sealed white vinyl packet…INSIDE the USPS priority envelope. Comes with material safety data sheets which are quite nicely done up, actually.
Interestingly, they list their JWH-018 at slightly less than 99% purity, and the product is more tan or even slightly orange-ish rather than white. Whereas the JWH-073 looks like all the other 073 I’ve seen…light tan (they call it light yellow on the sheet).
I have decided NOT to chuck the ReChemz material that I already had, as it occurred to me I could probably do a decent side-by-side comparison, provided both sets of products are indeed what they purport to be.
Sacra wins the first round. Awesome website, communication, and turnaround…awesome safe secure packaging with documentation. The buying experience is very much akin to the professionalism of buythemg…but at ReChemz prices. I hope to be further encouraged after additional scrutiny.
Cheers
is waiting on his Sacra delivery today ! ill let ya know what i think!
X1: The money from refund from Rechemz hit my bank today, they also sent two free g’s of 18, which is really white and fluffy not granular at all but after several test and i can conclude that its good enough for a decent blend. I am still waiting on sacra its in my neighboring state right now so im hoping within the hour!
What would be decent flavor mix to get a taste like blueberry or strawberry. Any recommendation.
alot of people use extracts to ‘scent’ there mixes …i dont really know alot about it other than dont say flavor when the product is not for consumption..so for ‘scents’ check out google !
Can anyone substantiate the claims that the Department of Defense is testing it’s personel for JWH-018? More specifically, I’m trying to determine if the Marine Corps activley tests for JWH-018 in it’s urinalysis. I’ve searched long and far, and I have yet to find anything on the internet that specifies that DoD/ Military personel were caught smoking spice because they were tested for JWH-018. I’m looking for facts, not un-substatiated, opinions. Thanks!
ok, thought i was going nutz because i wasn’t getting the same result as x1. i feel better that i may be able to get a refund or replacement for my stuff.
my story? i was born a poor black child…oops, wrong story.
mixed up the potion as i described earlier loosely following x1′s formula: 1g 073, 500mg 018, 750ml 151 everclear. couldn’t get the stuff to mix all the way, but hit it anyhow, starting at 2ml, then 3ml, then 4ml, so on, trying at max two doses a day. i didn’t acutally get off until i said f-it and downed 10ml @ once. even then, it was very slow to come on, but lasted into the next morning, and i never really felt the trippiness like many have described and like how it was with the k2.
i had 1/2 the 018 left, so i decided to try to vape some. started out slow, less than a matchhead, then matchhead size, up to 1/2 a friggen bic pen cap “shovel”. i must have been vaping 20-40mg at a time with only modest results. i knew either i am some miracle baby or this sh!t ain’t workin’.
ok, fast forward, i’d been hitting the 018 until it was gone. took maybe 10 sessions to kill off 500mg of the stuff between my friends and i. they were all like “what’s the big deal”, so down with the miracle baby theory. leaves one possibility: bunk researchchemicalz.
i still had the 073 and some 018 locked up in everclear, so i proceeded to boil off the carrier and smoke what was left. this actually worked for the most part. i was able to get quite stoned off the residues, presumably from the 073 since i knew the 018 was lame. it was a time-consuming process to get all the alcohol burned off safely, but paid out in actually getting me something for my investment.
my conclusion is that i got some bad 018, but the 073 was probably ok. i’m going to see if i can get a replacement or refund for the 018. wish me luck…
wow, if you got the same thing i did that burnt with weird reddish tinge to it ( both 73 and 18 white and powdery really fluffy or granuler like sand or salt? smell really really strong when vaped?
i was too scared ,I saved it so when i can find out where to test it , I wanna know the inert compounds if it was cut because anything of 6mg could bring on the ‘fear’ of 18 and your dose was CraZy! They sent me more but im not impressed, i got my money back so im not trippin, come on bi da mg lemme join your elite club! hmm. mm
no, i didn’t notice any red tinges, just a letdown. if there was a red tinge, i may have missed it, but the granuals of the 018 WERE quite varied. i thought the dosage was crazy too, hence the miracle baby comments.
pooh-
For starters 151-proof Everclear is a bad idea. The part of it that’s not alcohol is……water…….and JWH does not dissolve in water. This is why it’s such a pisser to get dissolution in something less than 190-proof (and even then takes some small effort).
I made two batches yesterday. One was a sacraresearch batch, and the other was the researchchemicalz batch that I had contemplated tossing in the can.
With respect to physical dissemination into solution, the sacraresearch batch performed as expected, requiring typical stirring, resettling, tamping, crushing, and agitation on the order of roughly 15 minutes.
The rechemz batch, on the other hand, dissolved very very fast. Maybe too fast. The 018 in particular was very soft and took almost no effort to break down into solution. That batch was prepped in 5 minutes. That is the only batch I’ve made where the powder dispersed with almost no effort.
And I’ll have to wait on issuing a potency verdict on that one, since I could only further test one of the two last night.
I went with the sacra batch. Pleased to report, she works. 4mL solution, at 2.5mg JWH per 1mL 190 E (total 10 mg JWH into system), performed exactly as expected.
Sacra = Win! It’s good to have options.
Cheers
haven’t got any confirmation from sacra or a reply from researchz. anything special i need to do to get in “the club”?
Pooh-
What was the question you had for Research Chemicalz? We aren’t aware of any messages and the phones are being answered.
i left an email over the weekend using the online form. i referenced my order number, etc. if you’ve read my previous posts, you’ll see i had some trouble with the potency of the 018.
should i call instead?
thanks for listening!
Just email me directly at support@researchchemicalz.com or tommy@naturesuphoria.com. If you sent an email over the weekend, it should have been responded to. Please check your spam.
It’s always quicker to call our 800# though
It may help to use a small glass or something to press/roll over the JWH in the ziplock BEFORE taking it out to dissolve in the EverClear or whatever ya got… don’t want to crunch down hard enough to bust the ziplock — but it might take care of some small chunks of powder that would otherwise take longer to dissolve.
Just got my Sacra order in. Took awhile because fedex LOST it for 3 days but it got here in a waterproof package, inside was another plasticlike waterproof packaging, inside it was a clearish foil package (like what k2 is usually sold in) , inside it , was nice looking clear baggie with a printed label on it!, Also the shipment of 500mg of jwh73 included product information sheet which is VERY nice! I will update once i research this shipment !
sacra = sacred! I give them 4 0ut 0f 5 on customer service and 4.45 out of 5 on quality! As far as shipping, if ya want it within 3 days pay for the overnight! i did ground and it took a week
Let me first say I’ve been monitoring this thread for months and its great.
I wanted to add my perspective on the use of JWH canniboids. I’m an older, 60′s era fan of recreational drugs just recently retired, and have benefitted greatly from careful use of JWH-018. It has analgesic qualities that, for someone like me with arthritis and joint replacements, are a godsend.
I’ve tried both the acetone bath (on an International Oddities herb base) and the Everclear mini-shot. I use a vaporizor on the herbs and mix the Everclear with Gatorade. They both have their pros and cons:
Acetone Bathed herbs:
Pros – You get high quicker and you can moderate the dose as you go. It also fades much quickly, making it possible to get high in a smaller time window. It’s a more acceptable way to get high. Offer a friend a hit as you would with real cannabis.
Cons – It’s hard to get the acetone out of the herbs properly. My initial try I dried it for 6 hours, at about 55 deg., in an open window, but I still noticed some adverse side effects typical of acetone inhalation. I ended up warming it in the oven for 1/2 hour and the side effects went away, but it reduced the potency. In my future preparations I will use an electric fan and stir the base for 10-12 hours, but avoid heating it.
Everclear shot:
Pros – Really provides a solid stone for an extended period of time. It’s easier to get an even blend and predictable dose.
Cons – You really need to block out a 6 hour window and be careful to not try to do anything like operate machinery. It can come on slow and hard, surprising you, hours later. I took it on fairly empty stomache and it took 45 minutes for it to hit, vs. 5 minutes using a vaporizer. It’s also less acceptable way socially. Telling someone you’ve mixed up a batch of high potency research chemicals and offering them a shot to drink will usually get a negative reaction.
For both of these approaches, I must emphasize, as others have on this forum, that you need to be really careful in handling and administering this stuff. Its very potent and requires respect. The doses and ratios are critical. You shouldn’y be sprinkling this stuff in joints or tossing some on your houkah bowl. Get a scale, measure carefully, and double check your calculations before you partake.
There are side effects, which I feel I am probably more sensitive to than younger members of the forum. As you get past 60 your body processes things less effectively, causing you to notice things more, so I may be a kind of canary in the coal mine. I notice that JWH puts more demands on your liver and metabolism, as does cannabis, so avoiding additional stress on these (such as drinking alcohol or caffiene before or during use) can reduce these effects.
What I’ve noticed for 24-48 hours post-use are light headedness, flatulance and headache. Nothing major, but climbing stairs too quickly can cause you to take a seat, and you may notice you need to drink more fluids. It’s nothing serious, but believe me, getting stoned one night and getting out on the golf course the next day can be a challenge if you don’t hydrate and eat properly. It’s comparable to to having 4-5 drinks of scotch for my matabolism. Your mileage may vary.
Absynthetics-
I used the USPS priority mail option with zero problems. And it’s the cheapest option of the bunch.
Wally-
Terrific post. Especially valuable “elder” perspective.
I am a mid-thirties fit male, and I don’t have quite the same reaction profile as you (Everclear method only).
My onset starts earlier, typically 20 minutes in, and that’s always on a full stomach to boot. Then it is like riding slowly up a conveyor belt as the stone ratchets tighter to a peak plateau at about the 75 minute mark, cruising at altitude for roughly 2 more hours before soft descent, but with considerable stonage still apparent well beyond 4 hours.
Any social taboo might be easily soothed away by the parallel experience of eating cannabis. In the company of friends, is this really so different from downing a feisty batch of hash brownies? I guess it depends on the experiences and expectations of one’s friends.
But also I don’t think I can in good conscience offer this beverage without a thorough explication of the molecules therein, which becomes a significant educational achievement. That is to say, it takes a while to really explain this material to people in a way that does it full justice. There’s a lot to grasp before exposure to JWH can be undertaken with the feeling that one truly has as much advance knowledge on the matter as is available to humanity at the moment. In fact, if I had simply skimmed the first few forum postings when I first stumbled on these chemicals, I would have never touched the stuff, and would have left off believing JWH has been found definitively carcinogenic, and is also responsible for AIDS, global warming, and world hunger. Such disinformation in the world.
I have not experienced the flatulence of which you speak. Yikes! I have had some next-day light fogginess and slight headache, but not all the time. I must say for the amount of inebriation possible at even moderate doses, the revenge symptoms are exceedingly mild, significantly less of a nuisance than what one pays in the day-after dues of a good hard drunk.
I have greatly enjoyed a cup of strong black coffee during or just after the up-slope of the experience. In my system the strong caffeine hit does not over-amplify the cannabinoid. They play well together! I do piss a lot later…but that’s coffee for you. The neat bonus is that the cannabinoid element is easily strong enough to override the coffee. I have found it possible to drink regular caffeinated coffee deep into the evening and have absolutely no trouble falling asleep even as little as 2 hours later.
About metabolism….this is one of the most interesting things. The stuff really does seem to give you a workout on the inside, but not in any way that I can discern as overtly negative. I seem to have dropped a few pounds in the weeks since first experimenting, and it has given me a strong reminiscence of back many years ago, when I used to smoke dope far too often, and how all my pothead friends and I were like string beans…there seemed no limit to how much we could eat without gaining weight. I have been packing away more calories than usual lately, especially during those JWH munchdowns (massive calories there!)….but fatness ain’t happening.
I guess I should urge some caution and restraint at this point, since what I just wrote reads like a Dexatrim ad. These are my own personal experiences, unique to my own biochemistry, and I’d like to hear the unique experiences of other travelers.
Ciao-
X1,
Thanks for the compliment.
Boy do I get what you are saying about the reminiscence. It seems the “body high” allows you to feel and stretch your muscles and joints in a way I haven’t felt since my days playing frisbee on campus in college.
This ties into the analgesia I mentioned before. I’ve been on numerous prescription meds (Vioxx, Celebrex) and JWH variants are as good or better than them (and over the counter anti-inflammatories) and much more fun.
The prescription meds mentioned are no longer sold because of dangers to the heart. I’m sensitive to the increased heart rate and anxiety that attend the use of canniboids for the same reason and this is a reason for my caution with caffiene.
I’m hoping to get the right blend of JWH chemicals stored up while they are still legal so I have them for a fall-back medication as aches and pains build up. There are few things better than a full workout, JWH and a hot-tub to fight old age.
There is no doubt that, until big-pharma gets a way to make money on them, that there will be a heavy push to shut down synthetic canniboids, just as cannibis has been restricted.
The good far outweighs the risks for me, but thousands of people would benefit from more research and development in this area to make their use more commonly available to those that don’t want to dabble in chemistry and track down the facts needed to do it safely. Your posts here provide a vital resource. Thanks.
TO: Wally & x1
I have enjoyed reading both you and x1 posts and well-written chronicle of events regarding your personal experiences with JWH. Job well done!!!
willie , I have been using 1 :2 ratio {1 gram to 2oz incense }, it is strong enough for me. now if I add a gram of jwh-073 to this could I add 2oz incense and it still be strong enough, or is the jwh-073 just an additive to get the sativa buzz, I am a lile bit confused, can you get me straight on this?
joseph, my blood work left me still wondering…my enzymes were ok in my liver, but I had quit my psychiartractic medicine the same day I quit jwh-018 so I fee like one of them was the culprit….probably the psychiartric medicine because the rash went away when I stopped taking it , I go for more blood work near the end of june so I will know more then, sorry I took so long to reply , but I just found out the results a couple of days ago, peace, jim
Hey Jim, regarding ratio, etc. I would rather let x1 or Absynthetics provide you guidance on this one. X1 has more experience with blending 018 and 073 together. Jim, I feel more comfortable if x1 or someone else answer your ratio question. I don’t want to steer you wrong. I am glad you got nice effect.
willie, thanks for the reply, maybe they will see my question and straighten me out peace
does pulse conatin jwh? i researched all over the net and i don’t think it does. please help! thanks
jim-
I can’t give bulletproof advice on plant blends since I don’t make them and have no experience using them. What I can tell you is that I use equal parts 018 and 073 in making liquid batches and it works perfectly for me.
I can tell you that the numbers/ratios you listed should be fine, provided you have a reliable technique for evenly distributing all 2 grams of JWH (018+073) through the 4 oz total plant material.
What I cannot tell you is what your experience will be, so you should do everyone a favor and report back after smoking. 073 is not quite as outright potent as 018, and is a little bit different on the CB receptors. It’s an oversimplification but I tend to think of 018 as more “sativa” and 073 as more “indica”. I expect that you will receive a more balanced and interesting high than with 018 alone. Equal parts of the JWH siblings is right for me in liquid form but you may have to tweak future batches in favor of one or the other to get the strength just right for your own system.
ernie-
I’d bet almost certainly Pulse has JWH as at least one of its active constituents. Perhaps it also has CP-something-something. God knows what else is in all these wacky blends, but to produce a cannabis-like reaction, it can only be one of a very small handful of particular compounds, JWH-018 being easily the most potent and available of the lot.
TO: ernie,
I did a comprehensive product review on Pulse a few months ago. My conclusion is the same as x1 regarding the present of synthetic cannabinoids in Pulse. I also smoked Pulse and I can tell you that the listed herbal ingredients will never get you the intensity or effect within 5 minutes of lighting up. If you are interested in a copy of the review please email me at courther@bellsouth.net. I have the review in a Word document.
I have been smoking spice blends out of water pipes and I am starting to feel some effects on my body, cough, trouble breathing, but its the same that would be from cannibus. The only thing that I’m really concerned about is that all the packages I got they all say “not fit for human consumption”. What are they able to get away with because of that? If anyone has any links or information, please post
Ethan,
How long have you been smoking spice blends? Which blends to you smoke? The companies market these blends as incense, so they can sell it. Jwh-018 is not scheduled drug yet, if it was they wouldn’t be able to sell it period. Hu-210 is a schedule 1 and it is one of the ingredients in spice gold, that’s why u don’t see any US companies selling it, because if they do, they will be in serious trouble! When they make jwh-XXX schedule 1, you won’t see spice anymore
TO: Ethan,
I am going to be brief and I am going to post a website address for knowledge purposes only. The Federal Analog is very controversial in the way it is written. It boils down to this. Any chemical or herb that mimics the effects of an illegal drug can be prosecuted under this federal law unless the chemical or herb is not for human consumption. I have received plain old herb for example and it says “not for human consumption” in order to avoid any possible litigation under this new law. Here is the exact wording, “The Federal Analog Act, 21 U.S.C. § 813, is a controversial section of the United States Controlled Substances Act, allowing any chemical “substantially similar” to an illegal drug (in Schedule I or II) to be treated as if it were also in Schedule I or II, but only if it is intended for human consumption. ” Here is the reference website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act
I hope this helps clear things up with you and others.
Excellent Blog by the way……..
Well, I finally went and did it. I live in a state where the 018 is going to be illegal soon, so I bought moderately large quantities (10-25g of 018 and 073) from 3 suppliers, just to be on the safe side. My issue now is with storage. I have a real and valid concern in that cancer runs deep in my family, and I would really like to have X1′s concoction around should I ever need to combat the effects of chemo. I also have a friend that actively has cancer, and the only relief he gets is from cannibis. So we both went in together and basically bought a life time supply.
The product sheets at several chemical companies say it can be stored for a year at -20C (or -4 F), but obviously a year is not long enough. I also read in 2 places (one being X1′s early post) that if you disolve it in ethanol, and put it in the freezer, it will last indefinitely. Does anyone know for sure the best way to store it for 15-20 years?
Since I won’t be able to replenish the product if I use the wrong process, I want to get this one right.
Any help would be appreciated.
Yes, this is an excellent thread. And Jwndy speaks directly to some of my thoughts about cannabimimetic RCs.
The wide-ranging medical benefits of cannabinoids are indisputable, but next-to-nothing is known (shared?) regarding the possible downside(s) – if any – of the synthetics. Perhaps what I should more correctly say is, the information that can be found is so technical it is largely indecipherable to the layperson. My interest is medical/therapeutic as well, but I am no chemist. It is because of my concerns about toxicity that I started reading here.
The simple truth is, being RCs – much of the research information is coming from, well, the individual “researchers” that are talking on bluelight, Drugs-Forum, etc. Guinea pigs though they may be, personal experience is proving to be key here.
As far as long-term storage is concerned – in the few places where I have seen it discussed, those who “seem” to have some expertise in the chemical field believe these are relatively stable compounds and are best stored in their “original” (dry) state.
But again – these are RCs, so only time. research and personal experience will tell for sure.
There is tremendous promise here and it goes far beyond 018. It is truly sad our ethically-challenged legislators are so blind.
a lot of info available at legal high guides online.
I infuse 15 grams of my secret blend with 1 gram of JWH-018. To me, this is the only way. No bad experiences, except for the first time. Didn’t expect such a powerful high. I do get heartburn but I think thats my blend. What do you think of my ratio?
I spent several hours look at legal high guides, but never saw any discussion about differnet ways to store this particular substance, except for several successful experiences with short term storage like, “stored in bag in dark closet for 3 months, and everything was OK” etc.
I did find the following statement, which hits a little bit on the type of chemical discussion I am looking for:
“Indole compounds degrade by oxidation giving yellow and brown products. The more impurity results in intensity of the brown color and becoming a gummy like state (due to melting point suppression)”
What I would like is for someone with some knowledge of chemistry to give me their opinion on the following two suppositions (purely made up by me)
1. Since Oxidation is the enemy of JWH-018, then storage in lots of little small glass vials (with no empty space between the powder and the cap/stopper to mimimize exposure to air) in your everyday stand-alone freezer would work. You would pull out individual vials when you need them, leaving the others undisturbed.
OR
2. By melting the JWH in Ethanol, you eliminate its ability to oxidize because no air can get to the chemical once it is in liquid form. Putting the ethanol in the freezer is an added bonus that retards chemical processes.
I would love to know which of the above statements might be true (if either), and which would give me the highest chance of success for decades-long storage.
Thanks for the response.
Thanks for all who commented, that really cleared up some questions that I had. An educated consumer is the best. I’ve been buring spice gold, but im thinking about making my own blend and just using the compound itself. Its been about 2 weeks of regular use, 2wice a day. Its nice to know that its just a law, and not a loophole that they can use to get around selling a safe product.