Since my last post about the spice behind Spice (and other smoking mixtures such as Smoke, Serenity Now, K2, Sence, etc), it has been brought to my attention that some initial toxicology testing has been done on the synthetic cannabinoid JWH-018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information – the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one professor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal statement. If you, or anyone you know, has the relevant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!
(Quick Update – A lot of people have been discussing and linking to this post, but there remains some suspicion that I have something to gain by saying the JWH-018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I mentioned just above this, if I have got anything wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my analysis of the data is incorrect, I will correct it!)
Feel free to invent your own conspiracy theories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can download the PDF documents in this Zip file [2.04 MB]
CYP450 Inhibition Assay
This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on specific enzymes in your liver. These Cytochrome P450 enzymes are responsible for metabolising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also metabolised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to understand how one drug may affect the metabolism of another, in case of any disasterous drug-drug interactions.
Results: JWH-018 will probably interact with the metabolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.
hERG Binding Assay
hERG stands for human Ether-à-go-go Related Gene. This gene codes for a particular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are critical in coordinating the heart’s electrical activity. Unfortunately, these channels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, disrupting their function. This can lead to “Long QT Syndrome”, associated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these channels are disrupted.
Results: JWH-018 does not interfere with these channels. That’s a good thing.
Cytotoxicity Assay
This simple test essentially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.
Results: JWH-018 is not cytotoxic at low concentrations.
GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay
This assay looks at how much a drug will interfere with our DNA. Typically, anything that damages DNA is bad news, being potentially carcinogenic, making the rationale behind this test glaringly obvious. This test was also performed in the presence of a fraction taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its breakdown products.
Results: JWH-018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.
Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay
Guess what happens in this experiment. A number of renagade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and promised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio; that shit was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Initially, they appear lethargic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to problems breathing rather than organ toxicity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sensitive to the compound. The drug didn’t appear to accumulate in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, probably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachyphylactic (my new favourite word – it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state following an initial dosage).
Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equivalent dose is 0.016 mg/kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!
Rat Pharmacokinetics
Data is collected on a number of different “pharmacokinetic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, distributed throughout the body, metabolised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clinical trials.
Results: JWH-018 is distributed well throughout the rat’s tissues. Metabolism and excretion are normal, with a plasma half-life of approximately 2 hours
Summary
Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.
Feel free to ask any questions in the comments.
Big thanks to Alfa @ Drugs-Forum.com for letting me know about these studies. You can read all about JWH-018 on their Drugs Wiki.
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Friday, 3. July 2009
Would jwh-018 show up as THC in a urine,blood,hair folicule test? Since this is a relitively new compound. How much testing is actually being done on it? I wish somone with some credibility would be able to do some testing on this.
Saturday, 4. July 2009
No, it won’t show up on a normal drug test.
The only similarities between this and THC are the receptors they both bind to.
Friday, 14. August 2009
After haviing found Bad Science, I think I should change my homepage! By luck I happened to find it by posting the link to this page on my website.
If I was on a desert island with just portal… give me more Bad Science!
But Science is good… and getting better. Just look what they can do with chemicals nowdays. Research continues.
Saturday, 15. August 2009
Whether a drug is dangerous or not will not make any difference to the government in deciding whether to ban it. If it gets you high, in their minds, it is bad. If it is not dangerous, they will simply lie to people and tell them it is dangerous and ban it anyway.
Sunday, 16. August 2009
The Gov’t wants to collect TAXES more, I think, than just about anything. They allow dangerous drugs and activities to remain legal in order to get tax revenue, despite the known risks.
People ALWAYS will want to gain cosmic insights, get loaded, zone out, get laid, and have adrenaline rushes… and will take whatever measures they feel necessary to get them.
If the Gov’t wants to declare JWH-018 as a danger to what — society? – then they can sure outlaw it, for what it’s worth to do so. The “War On Drugs” will continue — and to MY way of seeing things — THAT’S the REAL danger!!
Monday, 17. August 2009
regardless of its safety it may be it is not a patch on the real thing.Its like comparing rough cider to champagne.Personally i think the synthetic cannabis products are horrible and fail to see what the point is unlesss you are real desparate to get high.My advise if you can’t thec real thing do some cardia vascular excerise or yoga and do’nt waste your money on such awlful products
Tuesday, 18. August 2009
Chris (& possibly Tim): You might like to have a read of this post about religion’s role in keeping drugs illegal.
Motlly: Luckily, a lot of people disagree! In fact, some people prefer them to cannabis. I guess they’re also useful if all you can get hold of is shitty soapbar as sam commented on Can I Get High Legally?.
Tuesday, 18. August 2009
Thanks for the links, Synchronium.
For my opinion to count in the world, I have to make it known somehow. And my opinion is that whatever results in the least amount of harm, to the most people, is a GOOD THING.
Keeping natural substances illegal increases the incidence of violent crime, ruined relationships and lost opportunities pretty much any way you cut it — in MY book. Anyone who can defend a “War On Drugs” HAS to be messed up!
The beauty of a substance like jwh-018 is that its capable of giving people what they want, at a lower cost, in a pure form with a set dosage, and less apparent health risks, too.
It can be regulated by taxation, and since not everyone can or wants to produce it (as compared to throwing some weed seeds in the dirt) there’s less chance of a violent black market springing up if responsible parties are trusted to produce it under laboratory conditions.
If there’s no way to ELIMINATE risks of inevitable human activities and desires — why not take the next best step and minimize them as much as possible? As much as the conservatives and religious right would have otherwise… the simple truth is the genie is out of the bottle and ain’t about to climb back in.
Saturday, 5. September 2009
I passed a hospital drug screen having smoked a jwh-018 fortified herbal blend daily for about a week before the test. JWH-018 will not cause you to fail a drug test.
Tuesday, 15. September 2009
im on probation and i think it would take them months to figure out the what they were looking for. my inpute on jwh-018 four stare high. synthetic supplys has a very good herbal mix called budda blend for a great price 5 grams for 30 dollars.stronger than pep spice spice gold ect……..
Tuesday, 15. September 2009
they cant win the war on drugs anyway!
Wednesday, 16. September 2009
I have been smoking an herbal blend called Stryker for about a week now. I have noticed some lower back stiffness and aches-could this be related? I’m a little scared, as the package was totally shady, no ingredients listed, no manufacturer name-NOTHING!
I do have to say though, this herbal blend, much like Serenity Now Herbal incense, is totally intense and very long lasting! If anyone has had any similar side effects, please post!
Sunday, 20. September 2009
personally i like it..medically its good to kno about some of this stuff .. and i always have some to share..
Saturday, 26. September 2009
My sons friend just smoked some jwh-018 that he purchased on ebay and is now in the emergency room and can’t breath on his own,,this stuff is really dangrous
Tuesday, 29. September 2009
Yes jwh is Toxic….
Only after 5 year of abuse.
its come to the surface…
If you want to use 018.
then go ahead.
but let me tell you.. in the end, you will give it up
Tuesday, 29. September 2009
Spaced out: Perhaps you know something we don’t. Got any sauce for those facts?
Wednesday, 30. September 2009
My wise old daddy told me years and years ago that “Too much of ANYTHING is not good” — and I believe him.
What constitutes Jwh-018 “abuse”? Once a day? Or week? Wake and bake and stay loaded all day, day in and day out? Guess we all have to determine that for ourselves.
As with any other substance/drug, it can indeed be dangerous or even deadly, I suppose… even as if you were to consume too much WATER it could kill you, too. The problem with this chemical is that it is effective in such TEENSY TINY quantities that incautious people will inevitably sometimes take too much and get wigged out from it.
Know your tolerance and know your doseages, and take care!
Friday, 2. October 2009
its considerably nore potent that thc, if you like did a hot knife with it or something it would be like taking loads of hits of pure thc oil all at once, you have to dilute it or you will overdose and end up in a bad state, like if you smoke waaaaay too much weed i guess…
Saturday, 3. October 2009
I wonder what the effects are when the substance is used in a vaporizer?
Saturday, 3. October 2009
I’ve now had a number of experiencea with JWH-018. Personally, I love it. I’m on probation and this is the only way I was able to comfortably quit smoking weed. I find the buzz to be identical to marijuana at loto moderate doses but the main problem is dosing correctly. Without a milligram scale it can be very east to put out too much. A couple people around town and I have experienced a high dose and its not very pleasant. Whatever you do, be careful because it can cause panic attacks and difficulty breathing. We found that a mound about the size of a pot seed is a good dose to start with. Once you grow a little tolerance to it then you can dose a little higher. In the event that you do dose too high, don’t freak out and don’t fight it. It’s stronger than you. The best thing to do is just sit back and go along for the ride until you can grasp it. Best of luck and be careful.
Saturday, 3. October 2009
Can I fail a drug court test by smoking Serenity Now Herbal Incense? Feels like I smoke that good and I do not want to piss for these people and have to do 30 days ………like asap
Sunday, 4. October 2009
ya watch e-bay, my pet monkey got JWH-018 200 mg’s and and when he ran out to the mailbox 2 days later it was there! but.. it was prolly only 30-50% pure, this is the dangerous part, not truly knowing how much to put in when the batch is “cut”, be careful, but i can also say since i was raided for 26 plants, (all attitude feminized seeds, 10 white dwarfs were ready for harvest, and the others were in 3 weeks bloom, white widow ss haze, etc…fox farm certified!) errrrrrrrrr anyway i have very little money and have found it nice to buy a couple gram of cannibus and a sizable amount of jwh-018, jwh-073 w/e theres now 2 more also. anyways its nice to mix a hit or two of real cannibus with 018 to get a lil more than a meranol effect (thc pill) very cerebral and nice by itself, but feels more comrortable with some real erb, this is a cheap way to stretch a budget if you have true nausea/pain issues like me. unfortunately im from the states and there is no herbal blends i know of here, im sure when or if im tried (idk wuts goin on at the moment as i do have serious medical ailments) i will find an herbal blend instead of just smokin some powder on a cigg, those herbal blends all range in types of jwh’s and have other weaker cannabanoid receptor attaching chems. in them, i here it is a good way to go if you know a good vendor for a spice that says whats in it. I don’t know any. my monkey wants to know though, he liked my plants to.
Sunday, 4. October 2009
Serenity Now is Awesome, and I passed my drug test just fine! If you are scared just go to the drug store and get an at home test to ease your mind.
Monday, 5. October 2009
What is PARSLIJUANA?
Just a word I made up for 500 MG of JWH-018 mixed in with 5 grams of dried parsely flakes soaked until dry in a cup or so of 95% EverClear.
Almost makes one want to register the domain name, hmmm??
Wednesday, 7. October 2009
JWH-018 Is an excellent ‘drug’ – First few times of use will be like very similar to what most cannabis ‘users’ experienced. Very very stoned feeling, Maybe not fully enjoyable? But you learn to enjoy it more and I guess you nearly instantly build up a small tolerance to where you can enjoy it.
My experiences with this JWH-018 was nearly mirror’d as if i was taking weed for the first time.
As a 10 year cannabis smoker (daily) I enjoyed it, But After just one day of using jwh-018, rapidly built up a big tolerance to this, Exactly the same as weed/skunk what ever
But yeh, Nice to experience. Also nice to mix with weed or smoking blends.
I cant see any one going to hospital over this or anytihng. I smoked very high doses of it, Just ended up as if I smoked like half ounce of decent weed, monged out, needing food/water, Proper felt same for the following morning.
I rate it highly, Sad thing is the tolerance Issue.
I’m going to try out the other jwh-xxx’s – See what they’re saying!
Oh yeh nice site btw!
Wednesday, 7. October 2009
does anyone know if smoking blends like spice gold, smoke xxx that contain jwh everyday for a year cause some kind of cancer? and is jwh o18 safe to use or deadly? ive been hearing different things about this so i thought id ask.
Thursday, 8. October 2009
Recently I ordered 5 grams of JWH-018 from [THE INTERNET]. The product came in 3 days and was of the highest quality and a good price. I gave a few of my friends some doses and told them how to safely dose yourself. Unfortunately, they gave some to friends too and didn’t explain the dosages and someone ended up going to the hospital because they thought they were going to die. Since they got it from someone who got it from someone, they didn’t know the proper name for it and the hospital thought they were given ghb. The girl was fine after about an hour but a lot of questions are now being asked. This stuff is awesome, but it’s no joke.
Thursday, 8. October 2009
You can find JWH-018 of equal quality for considerably less if you look around… or even free (10MG) samples of it at [ANOTHER WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET]. I’ll be the first to agree, though, that this “awesome stuff” is definately “no joke”.
With that in mind, my advice is to make the straight chemical into a standardized, easy to use form that you can share with others that won’t get them in the emergency room to do ignorance of how to use it. The original “parslijuana” I made was toooo strong, so it was diluted to about 7 grams of parsley to 500 MG of JWH-018, soaked in a cup of 95% Everclear grain alcohol until dry.
This way, if shared with others, the instructions are “Take ONE hit every 1-2 hours as desired”. Those with a pre-existing tolerance buildup could manage two hits back to back… but most people (IMHO) will realize within 2-3 minutes that a single hit is all that is needed… or desired.
Friday, 9. October 2009
Hey all…..
UK readers might be interested in the following report to the Home Secretary from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs:
http://drugs.homeoffice.gov.uk/publication-
search/acmd/acmd-report-agonists?view=Binary
In addition, there’s an interesting link on the following page from the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction regarding their recomendations for the control of Spice and synthetic cannabinoid agonists such as the JWH group:
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachements.cfm/att_80086_EN_EMCDDA_Understanding%20the%20‘Spice’%20phenomenon_4Update%2020090813.pdf
The following was of special interest:
“The Commission-funded Psychonaut web mapping project continuously monitors the web for novel
compounds, using 9 languages, with the support of different tools/software (e.g. Google Insight, Blue Crab,
Boolean Search, InSite, Advanced Web Ranking and SerpSpy). The project monitors regularly more than
200 websites, forums and blogs which provide information on many compounds”
Hope I’ve not bored you all too silly….
Saturday, 10. October 2009
in a hospital blood scan. will serenity now contents show up ? and what will it show up as? i understand it wont show up in a piss test becuase the piss test would have to know what its looking for. but what about a full blown hospital blood scan that they give for a “on the job accident” , etc.
Sunday, 11. October 2009
HairyCelt, that is very interesting stuff! I skimmed through it, and found it to be very interesting but really technical. Right now I am resorting to using ginko biloba mixed with piracetam to get my cerebral fix. This combination creates clear mindedness and alertness. I wish there was a legal substance that I could vaporize with no trouble.
Friday, 23. October 2009
I have over the used used forums like this in my exploration of drugs. So now I will give back. I have been doing JWH-018 for about 7 months now. The only thing that would give me a clue that I wasnt smoking weed is the way JWH is smoked. Other than that, to me, its like dank nugs. I am 34 and smoked since 14….steadily. I was your typical pot head. Then as a result of a divorce and a narc wife, I had to quit pot…for my kids sake…I have custody. Well, I have had 2 piss test at work. Taken at a hospital, passed, no questions, 1 piss test for court, Redimed…Passed….I was injured at work=workers comp….Passed. It is safe to say you can pass test with no worries. I have went through about 8 grams now…I love it.As with any drug…responsible use, caution and respect will prove useful and ensure the fact that you can now be high all you want…and they cant even prove it. In closeing, I use a very small wire with a flat end…very very small…I find with no scales…this wire will only alow me to pick up a minimal amount at a time…but Ill just shut up now…..DAMN I LOVE JWH>HE should have gotten the nobel peace prize….
Friday, 23. October 2009
Rather interesting to read how many people post about the JWH-018 and use terms as “I love this stuff”, “my beloved JWH” and such.
Seems like more people have found it to be of benefit than have gotten freaked out about it. Most everyone also mentions using it RESPONSIBLY — which should be a no-brainer with ANY substance/drug — but still, is good advice for Newbies.
Some will love it, for sure, and those who hate it just don’t like drugs or something, I guess. The drugs/drugs effects aren’t “the problem” with most drugs as much as the person who abuses them, eh?
Seems unlikely that NarcoTerrorists are gonna be gunning people down in Detroit to sell this stuff, so no problem there, either. Shucks, I wouldn’t even mind paying State sales tax on it if they/The Govt allowed it to be sold at the corner 7-11 at a resonable price.
Why not?
Saturday, 24. October 2009
Hey everyone, my second post. I am reading the actual patent for this stuff and I am reading some interesting elements as such:
quote “DESCRIPTION OF SOME PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS
As used herein, a “therapeutically effective amount” of a compound, is the quantity of a compound which, when administered to an individual or animal, results in a sufficiently high level of that compound in the individual or animal to cause a discernible increase or decrease in stimulation of cannabinoid receptors. Physiological effects that result from cannabinoid receptor stimulation include analgesia, decreased nausea resulting from chemotherapy, sedation and increased appetite. Other physiological functions include relieving intraocular pressure in glaucoma patients and suppression of the immune system. Typically, about 10 mg/day to about 1,000 mg/day is a possible “therapeutically effective amount” for the inventive compounds. ”
10 mg per day… how much are you guys using?
The compound of the present invention can be administered by a variety of known methods, including orally, rectally, or by parenteral routes (e.g., intramuscular, intravenous, subcutaneous, nasal or topical). The form in which the compounds are administered will be determined by the route of administration. Such forms include, but are not limited to, capsular and tablet formulations (for oral and rectal administration), liquid formulations (for oral, intravenous, intramuscular or subcutaneous administration) and slow releasing microcarriers (for rectal, intramuscular or intravenous administration). The formulations can also contain a physiologically acceptable vehicle and optional adjuvants, flavorings, colorants and preservatives. Suitable physiologically to acceptable vehicles may include, for example, saline, sterile water, Ringer’s solution, and isotonic sodium chloride solutions. The specific dosage level of active ingredient will depend upon a number of factors, including, for example, biological activity of the particular preparation, age, body weight, sex and general health of the individual being treated.
So obviously, according to the patent, we don’t have to risk getting cancer by smoking it, we can actually use it topically on the skin and get an effect, or mix it in a liquid and drink it? Smoking is probably the worst way of using this stuff.
Here are my main concerns before attempting to try this stuff.
1) How can a person verify that the stuff they purchase is really pure? Which vendors are the best?
2) How can a person actually measure out 10, 20 or 30 mgs of the stuff?
3) Has anyone used this stuff in a method other then smoking it? I would be interested in vaporizing.
keep these posts rolling, knowledge is power,
btw, if you want the patent link here it is:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7241799.PN.&OS=PN/7241799&RS=PN/7241799
Saturday, 24. October 2009
I know a fellow who uses JWH-018 orally and reports real good results from it. Dose size is unknown exactly, but estimated 5-10 MG. He says he’s never had a “bit too much” using it that way as compared to smoking it — where even a little “too much” can bring on undesireable side effects.
My wife has tried it orally both in about 3-6 MG amounts, my estimate… and the same headaches occured for her as if she had used a “natural cannaboid”. Since she can count the times she’s smoked pot on one hand, pretty much — and it didn’t “work” for her — and since she’s not a smoker by nature, either — the JWH-018 just “wasn’t her thing”.
It’s been my impression that OLD HANDS — folks of the Boomer Generation — are more likely to fall in love with this substance than your average Young Buck.
Saturday, 24. October 2009
Hey Jason. In responce to how much we use. I find tolerance for myself is much greater than with weed…with me the tolerance seems to be almost as fast as opiates. But I find I reach an amount that seems to satisfy consistantly. When I first got this stuff….I hadnt smoked pot in about 1 year. I did a poy seed sized amount and…oh shit man…I couldnt move, light hurt, I was drooling…sweating…I woke up like 5 hours late for work….so….I learned extreme caution….it was Hell I thought I was going to die…on another time I gave a hit to a 55 year old lady friend. she was ok at first, then she like layed down on my bed, her hands and fingers curled up…and she cryed and begged for help for like 45 minutes…then puked…and passed out. I was really afraid she would die or something….on that not…….RESPONSIBLE USE…and I highly doubt this will be sold at the gas station…as a matter of fact….I KNOW it will be illegal soon as enough idiots get caught with it or start selling it on the street corner….so get all u can…thats my motto..lol…..and Ive actually ate some in candy about four pot seeds worth…and it was awsome…it seems much more economic to smoke it though….take care all synthetic caniboid explorers.
Sunday, 25. October 2009
See, i need something that I could take and go to work with no problem. I can’t afford to have an adverse effect like this. Also, what about jwh-073, hu-200 and all of these other substances, has anyone tried them?
Monday, 26. October 2009
In July 2009, I went into my husband’s home office to find him slam in the middle of a grand maul seizure. I called the ambulance and at the hospital they gave him something introveniously. Who would have thought that would happen to him?
Hmmm. . .go ahead. . .do it again. Who knows what ONE TIME will do to you. Take a stand against crap like this. IT has to start somehwere.
Monday, 26. October 2009
Wanda: Please shed some more light on your husband’s experience. How much did he take? Was it pure, etc? Perhaps you could persuade him to come on here and explain the situation for himself?
Tuesday, 27. October 2009
Sorry to hear about Wanda’s husband… but when it comes to psychoactive substances, the genie is out now… so what should we do?
First, use reason/prudence/caution/respect about the substances we choose to use. Then we need to make sure we’re not going to harm anyone ELSE by what we’re doing.
Alcohol is, to me, the REAL “crap” that needs to be taken off the shelves — but it’s been around and been legal for … how long? People abuse it every day. ONE DRINK too many and it’s off the cliff you go… same with most other things — too much is NOT GOOD.
It’s not the booze or the dope that’s “the problem” usually as much as the person who uses it without educating themselves on what consequences they may likely/potentially face by its use. Mistakes happen, Ignorance happens — I know from personal experience!
And while I’ve had at least a few pretty wickedly BAD trips in my day, overall I think my life has been enhanced in positive ways from the experiences I’ve had, including those that didn’t kill me. When I find and know my limit for something I need to then take the responsibility to not cause myself a problem because over the limit is not good, either.
Wednesday, 28. October 2009
Well, if you want to swim in the ocean, you cant complain about getting stung sometimes…..
This is like most everything else, education is critical! Buy a milligram scale (.0001 accurate, $50 or so with some internet searching.
I see folks talking about “smoking” JWH 018. I highly recommend vaporizing.
Get a small appliance lightbulb.
Look at the end you screw into the socket. It has a shiny black surface with a tiny piece of wire in the center. Grab that bit of wire with pliers and pull out. Now that the black is cracked, you can chip it out, taking care not to tear up the soft aluminum of the bulb.
Once the black is completely gone, remove the lighting element (may have to tap it with anything long and skinny. All you want is a glass bulb with a hollow end.
I wrapped a bit of electrical tape around the threads (not needed).
If you do not have a scale, i suggest this. Use a BIC pen cap, and get a small pile, not more than 1mm worth, and pour this into the bulb.
I will say this, just hold the bulb upright and pour the powder in. It reminds me of small sand grains, it falls right to the curve of the bulb, maybe tap it gently with your finger to condense the pile.
Screw a 2 liter cap over the end of the bulb. It will fit loosely. I did this so the vapor wouldnt escape.
Now have a drinking straw handy.
For those unfamilar with vaporizing, you are not “burning” the product, you are releasing the vapors without burning the material.
Ok, here what to do and what will happen. I vape it in two parts. First part turns it froms a solid powder to a liquid.
Hold your lighter a good 2 inches below the pile and start adding heat. move the flame slowly closer until you see the powder start to liquify. Go slow, do not rush it. Once its a liquid puddle, stop adding heat!
It will solidify somewhat.
Now the vape begins. do the same with the lighter, 2 inches below, slowly move it up. Again go slow! as the flame get closer you will see the puddle start to give off vapor.Once it starts to give off vapor, try to stay the same distance from the bulb. move the lighter around the puddle to vape it all. Your bulb should be full of foglike smoke.
Once the vaping is done, quickly take the cap off, insert your straw, and inhale the vapors.
Sit back and enjoy!!!! You will feel a bit of tightness in your chest, so DONT PANIC!!!! It passes pretty quickly! I was fully expecting the chest tightness, and it still drew my attention.
Be responsible. I love to smoke pot, but honestly, if you smoke lesser quality, this stuff is definitely better!
Thanks everyone!
BTW, the JWH-018 is very indica like, but the JWH-073 is very cerebral, very sativa like, so go with your choice!
I imagine the two together would be fantastic!
Wednesday, 28. October 2009
I think jwh-073 is more for me then jwh-018. I love sativa! Has anyone else used jwh-073? I would like to know what effects people have gotten, and the recommended dosage.
Sunday, 1. November 2009
i have just been given some jwh180 to try but not being funny it looks like it should go up the nose rather in a spliff.
if things have got that bad you would risk smoking that shit you need to talk to FRANK!!!!!
Sunday, 1. November 2009
Whoa!! Don’t snort this stuff… just a bit of basic knowledge for those who may not know. I’d hate to even try to think what that might be like.
YIKES!!
Thursday, 12. November 2009
I hear this stuff will be illegal in the UK from the 21st of December.
Friday, 13. November 2009
Dec 23rd, I think. The full ban is attached to the end of this post.
Tuesday, 17. November 2009
I bought a gram of pure jwh 018 from a friend and smoked it ‘heavily’ for about 2 months everyday.I am an old dope smoker who has smoked nearly everyday since 1969,so I am pretty experienced and i took LSD about 150 times in the 70’s.I found jwh to be far more than a marijuana substitute.In minute doses it is comparable to skunk.But it is very easy to get higher than you hoped for.In a slightly larger doses it is more like LSD,but without the paranoia that sometimes comes with LSD.The 2nd time I took JWH I did about 50 to 100 times too much and it was very scary.(I was drunk on beer and my judgment was impaired) I hallucinated wildly which was fun ,but the other effects were unpleasant.My heart was pounding like it would jump out of my chest.I had cramps in my legs and arms and had cold sweats.I also got very paranoid and at times thought I was going to die !My wife ,who doesn’t do drugs suggested I get fresh air and breath deeply ,move about and think nice thoughts.It worked and I felt much better! So now I am much more careful and avoid it if I am drunk! I find that the intense high lasts about 2-3 hours but that I stay mildly high for the next 20 hours or so. One toke a day in the evening is enough.When I smoke skunk I usually do 5 or 6 smokes a day..So jwh is more economical and less harmful to my lungs I think.It also seems to be a clearer high,less goofy and less forgetful.So I would recommend it to any long term smoker but would say be careful !The effects creep up on you.It takes about 5 -10 minutes to get the full high.So it’s very easy to do too much.I would not recommend it to people who have little experience with hallucinagens as it might freak them out…
Thursday, 19. November 2009
Important point made in the previous post… it does take 10 minutes or so for the full effects to kick in. And time can do weird things, like go too fast or slow than you realize is happening. Best to write down the time somewhere when you get started, and keep in mind to check the time now and then.
Newbies need to appreciate the advice of the previous poster in regards to a lack of experience with hallucinogens in general. Specificly, if one has previous experience with substances such as Salvia Divinorum and DMT — things what have quite a WHACK to them — it’s easier to go with the sudden transformation from being straight to totally… out there.
One 5-second hit of what I can Parslijuana (or “Pwanna”) the size of a small pea/pinch/16th teaspoon works wonders for a good amount of time and leaves one with enough motor ability to answer the phone, walk to the kitchen, etc.
Thursday, 19. November 2009
It seems that ebay has blocked sales of this stuff. Where can someone buy this and how does one know how pure or impure it is?
Thursday, 19. November 2009
I don’t think we’re allowed to post vendors, it’s just like average weed as far as effects go with me.
It’s pretty damn close, in fact..
Saturday, 21. November 2009
Ok. I’ve read many questions and only one brief answer about what exactly jwh-073 does and how it compares to jwh-018. I like the 018 A LOT. I have to take drug tests, and I think it’s even better than weed and so glad I discovered it. Although, weed is the only thing I can compare it to. I can see how it would be similar to acid if you smoke too much, like everyone has already said. But if you just do the little bit and gradually build your tolerance, I love it! It only made me paranoid and super ripped the first time, mainly because I think I was so wigged out about what it even was and how it wouldn’t show up on a drug test, which is hasn’t. But what’s with the 073. I read a post that said 018 is like indica and 073 is more like sativa, but I need that broken down in a little simpler terms. Any advice would be helpful!
Saturday, 21. November 2009
Indica is a body high, or body buzz. Usually relaxes your body , muscles, etc. Sativa is more of a mind buzz, cerebral. Personally, I prefer sativa because it stimulates my imagination, and creativity. It seems that I am more focused and I do everything better. Indica makes me really lazy and puts my brain in a fog and makes me less productive.
Monday, 23. November 2009
Mr Skunk thinks that 073 is very nice except the fact it only seems to last about an hour, and it gets pretty more-ish. It was enjoyed, but it goes MUCH faster than 018 making it a lot less economical. 5mg 018 and 10mg 073 is a very nice buzz for Mr Skunk.
Monday, 23. November 2009
Re the previous message… would one be able to use the 10 MG of 073 orally with good results, or is that a smoked amount?
Saturday, 28. November 2009
I’d just like to correct the end of Ben Hailey’s wonderful post as he mixed the -018 and -073 up, for the record it is the -018 that is the sativa high and the -073 that is an indica high.
-018 is about three times the potency of -073. a 1 to 3mg dose of -018 like any sativa is a very heady, psychedelic, creative, buzzy brain high and can be incredibly aggressive and unforgiving with even 1 mg too much.
A 3 to 9mg dose of -073 like any indica is a more sedating, sleepy, body high with analgesic properties, it’s highly unlikely one would panic on typical doses of -073 due to the nature of this compound, it’s kind and mellow.
Most people I’ve come across prefer -073 but tend to build up tolerance very quickly and thus use it up very quickly.
A combination of one part -018 and three parts -073 is a perfect mix.
Find a plethora of experience reports relating to JWH-015, JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-081, JWH-200, JWH-250 at drugs-forum.com
Do your homework before messing around with JWH-018, this is not cannabis, it’s an INCREDIBLY powerful synthetic chemical and a .001mg scale is essential.
Friday, 4. December 2009
And I return again. I went through 5 grams in about 2 months. Ive been out for 2 months and got more today. Wow, its like geting high for the first time. My point being, rapid tolerance is the bigest issue for me. I will try to limit it to only late night use…though like crack…you just wanna feel this good all the time. I have found a light bulb the BEST way. Previously I burned it in a pipe on ash…except for the cost of lighters…vaporizing seems much more economical….ive done a total of 7 1/2 grams of this shit now…and feel im pretty experienced…so once its Illegal here in USA…I can say I did it….also…yes the guy that compared it with acid….Dude it is at high doses. Be careful everyone…and enjoy it…they will take it from us soon.
Friday, 11. December 2009
i have been smoking jwh-018 for a while now. i recently learned that a guy i know died after smokin this. he went to lay dowwn for a nap and never woke up. they think he quit breathing in his sleep. this stuff is dangerous and people smokin it should definately know their dosage. please be careful
Saturday, 12. December 2009
I smoked about 100 mg over the course of 2-3 days. It is very strong stuff, scary…. affects the body too much ( I was scared I was gonna die) and I had a little trouble breathing the next day ( I do have asthma)
It does get you blasted, be very careful if you experiment. Just do a tiny tiny bit and resist the temptation to keep getting loaded multiple times in a night like I did.
Saturday, 12. December 2009
While I definitely concur with the “know your dosage” caveat, it seems kind of strange to me that someone would go to sleep while under heavy effects of Jwh-018…?
Maybe it’s just me, but it tends to energize me for the first hour or so after use — hardly sleepy!
On the learning curve towards getting to know the Sweet Spot dosage I did sort of overdose somewhat a few times… and those episodes we’re intense (and scary) enough to keep me waaay awake until they subsided.
JWH-018 is dangerous to use with caution and respect, for sure.
Thursday, 17. December 2009
In China when you want to buy weed, all they usually sell is “hash” but in actual fact China is the largest producer of JWH, so it’s usually substituted with JWH, but they still call it hash.
So it’s the most common drug around over there, at least in some areas. With their harsh laws and punishments(execution) I guess it’s safer to sell JWH and tell everyone it’s cannabis. They cut it with THC and pollen from the low potency wild native cannabis strains sometimes, or with just random stuff… anyway, you can tell that it is JWH since it’s orally active, whilst THC needs to be bonded with oil/fat molecules to be readily absorbed by the body. I know several people who tried it orally, they say the high was long lasting and said there were no ill effects, by the sounds of it the effect was fairly mild though. They didn’t even take a measured dosage. But I think all the JWH sold on the streets in China is cut. You can get pure stuff in bulk from manufacturers over there though.
If you want to test whether it’s pure, I heard from an semi-reliable source that you can dissolve it in water. Pure JWH should dissolve completely(no sediments/particulates visible at all) and then revert back to a crystaline state when the water is evaporated off. But I haven’t tested or verified this. I know it does dissolve in isopropyl alcohol though.
The powder should also be white or slightly off white. The less white it is the more impure it probably is. But it can be cut with white powders, so looking closely at it you will see that it is sparkly and crystalline like sugar or salt, not dull like ajax haha. So if it’s white but isn’t a bit sparkly in direct light, then it’s probably cut with chalk or something…
Tuesday, 22. December 2009
according to everything else i have read, it is not soluble in water or even alcohol with more than about 25% water content…
as i understand it, it is best dissolved in acetone to lay it on something …at least the chemistry majors think so.
i have also heard of good results with everclear and 151…but you have to agitate it and heat the alcohol in a hot water bath a bit to make it dissolve completely.
i have also seen reports of recrystallization when this alcohol was cooled, so it would seem that alcohol has it’s limits.
at least if you use acetone to lay it on, it will completely evaporate; and you can’t miss it when it has because it’s odor is so pungent.
personally, acetone worries me a bit…i think i’ll stick with everclear.
Saturday, 2. January 2010
I’ve been bonging JWH-018 on top of a pile of Spice for the last few months. I have high body weight and high tolerance so I smoke about 4-5 mg at a time and this gets me as baked as you’d ever wish to be.
I recently accidentally overdosed (long story, my own stupid fault) on about 8-10 mg and had an incredibly nasty experience that involved projectile vomiting, temporary blindness, rivers of cold sweat, shaking, waves of fire sweeping through my body, and losing sense of who I was or what was going on. It was pure torture for about an hour, and I was in so much physical and mental pain that I prayed to die or be released.
Please guys, don’t make the same mistake I did. I’ve found JWH-018 wonderful when used respectfully and cautiously. But throw caution to the wind one time, and this stuff will not go easy on you!
Monday, 4. January 2010
I’ve gotten to the point where my attitude is pretty much “you can’t do TOO LITTLE” when it comes to the Jwh-018.
Even teensy amounts seem to have SOME effect — while teensy amounts TOO MUCH will have WAY too much oomph. I concur with CHRYSALIS — go easy with this stuff. Know your “sweet spot” and don’t think that just a little bit more is ok!
Once you’ve had a taste of The Fears, you’ll likely learn… the hard way.
Monday, 4. January 2010
I see all of these comments about this stuff and find it very interesting. However I think that it is extremely unfortunate that very very very little is known about the long term affects of this substance. I think we should put our money together and high a scientist to find out the long term effects of this stuff so we’ll all know and want be ignorant!
Monday, 4. January 2010
Jason: The problem with finding out the long-term effects of a substance is that it takes…a long time. And now it is illegal in the UK, and as we have recently seen, politicians aren’t massive fans of the truth, especially when it clashes with their established drug policy.
Making it illegal will make getting funding to get funding and licenses to experiment with JWH more difficult.
So the Government have it set on two levels: 1) By limiting research on JWH they prevent information about it arising which could challenge their position; 2) As we have seen, even when pertinent information is present, they ignore it anyway!
As for putting out money together, its a nice idea, but would require one or more of us to be extremely wealthy, as extended trials of this kind, even in rats, cost an extraordinary amount.
Tuesday, 5. January 2010
Ive smoked roughly all the spice blends and conclude that pep spice is the best alternative to thc. The main ingredient is lactuca virosa. It states all the ingredients on the package as is very relaxing.Lactuca virosa is a wild lettuce that when cut , secretes out its magical source of a legal high. Just like poppys do. Wildly grown in britain. Legal in the us. Those of you that state jwh-018 made someone you know go to the hospital and couldnt breath , must have either done something else or have had some lung condition that requires no smoking, because ive smoked it for a 4 month period 5 times a day everyday. Jwh-018 is as good but id consider pep spice because of the replicated high to that of some good med marijuana high.
Wednesday, 6. January 2010
I have smoked JWH around thirty times so far. It is great
in small amounts, leaves you “high” for several hours and makes your feel awesome. As far as the woman with a kid in the ER, sorry your son was a moron who more than likely smoked tons of JWH to show off to his friends, this stuff is plainly labeled and sold for adult use only. I heard many stories from teens who claim to smoke Salvia Devinorum in large quantities. Kids should not to using “Drugs” by any means. I have not seen any effects in myself other than a expansion of myself intellectually, maybe a slight decline in motivation, but it is winter right now. I think it’s great for people who have to take drug tests and still want to watch a buzz from time to time and not worry about losing their job or going to jail. Great stuff!!!
Sunday, 10. January 2010
what about red dawn spark gold ???? any reviews???
Tuesday, 12. January 2010
Do u just mix jwh in to batch as blending or is there more to it?I just ordered diferent herbs.
Tuesday, 12. January 2010
This stuff is kind of awkward when smoked with other ppl. It seems almost as if a mood enhancer that works as a collective energy among the ppl you are around. I would describe as coming on like the body buzz after Salvia then slowly morphing similar to rolling. This is Serenity Now, gold pack. Odd stuff, even in small doses it is very potent, different buzz entirely. Very strong
Wednesday, 13. January 2010
so i have tried “serenity now” couple nights ago and had the worst trip ever. i occiasonaly smoke pot and tried serenity with my buddy. i felt as if i couldnt breathe and my heart was beating really fast. for some reason now i feel as if somthing is missing in my head, kinda have a hard time sleeping at times and concentrating. so my question is, are there any long term side effects of this drug???? anything to worry about or will it just go away??
Thursday, 14. January 2010
I know what you mean about the small anxiety at the onset, nothing to panic, use in moderation, don’t smoke it like it is marijuana. I can’t see any long term side effects over the 3 months I have used the “spice” blends and it has not been around long enough for these effects to be accurately tested. Please please PLEASE use with extreme caution, this stuff can be very unpleasant in large amounts.
Thursday, 14. January 2010
My bottom line advice to JWH-018 newbies is to keep two basic concepts in mind:
1. You almost cannot use TOO LITTLE to get SOME effect — so use in teensy tiny amounts to start with… and even after you’ve got a feel for how much does how much — increase dosage by likewise teeny tiny amounts.
2. You almost cannot wait TOO LONG to let it do what it’s gonna do — so be very very patient and just let it ride. Piling more on while the first hit or two are still up and coming is a sure way to have a very unpleasant experience.
Friday, 29. January 2010
WARNING, PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I have used JWH-018 because i am on probation and can not smoke weed. I have developed a severe addiction to the substance and it has really messed me up. I stoped smoking it and starting from day 1, i could not sleep. I got an average of 3 hours of sleep at night, i lost about 5 lb’s from loss of appatite, and i have been having fits of rage (ither from loss of sleep, or withdrawl). I would sudjest that you do not mess with this drug. As many of my friends are also addicted and are having the same problems as me. After about 1 full week of not being in contact with this drug my body is still having withdrawls and i am going to a doctor to help me. I would avoid this drug if you don’t want this to happen to you
Friday, 29. January 2010
Could you not try and taper off? If sleeping and eating are your main issues, why not try taking a lower than usual dose before your meal in the evening and before bed? Then, you wouldn’t be smoking it continuously to get high, only to treat those withdrawals. Gradually, you can reduce the amounts and stop taking before either the meal or bed and eventually stop all together.
Friday, 29. January 2010
For everyone saying you can go crazy, end up hospitalized, and all that..i have to tell you this.. i was on my way to a hookah lounge this past tuesday and one of my close friends who is on probation smoked an entire blunt of serinty. 1 whole gram. he DID NOT go to the hospital, he DID NOT go insane.. oh and also, in the town in which i live, i can go to gas stations and buy serenity.. im not sure of the amounts in the bags but the prices are.. $20, $45 and $70 this of things this way.. if marijuana wasnt discovered until now, there would be forums and rumors on the internet about it too.. tobacco is terrible for someone to smoke, but its legal and people are ok with it.. nicotine is a drug and if enough is smoked, you get a buzz. same with caffeine. why are these things ok and marijuana isnt? serenity now is not a bad thing.. but that doesnt mean its a good thing.. but i think ill just stick to the herb
Sunday, 31. January 2010
It’s easier for people to blame a drug than challenge why they may be having severe reactions.
Drugs are always taking the rap for peoples psychological issues and stupidity.
Tuesday, 2. February 2010
i have been putting jwh 018 on my own herd and it work great i was wondering if it would be any better on weed
Wednesday, 3. February 2010
The most reasonable and safe method of consumption I have found is from a post on Drugs-Forum, which I will now paraphrase and expand upon.
Note, I have tried this, it works, it is the bee’s knees. I do not know why anyone would bother eyeballing and smoking this extremely powerful concentrated agent, when it can so effectively be regulated through the following solvent method.
Truthfully, I cannot even see the reason in dissolving the solvent onto a smokeable substrate, except for continuance of the social ritual of “smoking the bud”. But that is a great deal of work and still not very exact for the kind of potency and sensitivity we are talking about with professional lab-grade chemical. There is simply no need to smoke or vape, or risk any possibility of OD or The Fear, with the ease of this method and the long-term storage advantages inherent in the method.
Dissolve 250mg of JWH into 100mL of 190-proof Everclear. You must use 190 proof Everclear, which is available in my local liquor store down the street but may also be ordered online.
The math holds, so if you have 1000mg (1 gram) of JWH, dissolve into 400mL of 190-proof Everclear. I have personally done this with half-and-half of JWH-018 and JWH-073, 500mg a piece into 400mL Everclear. I’d recommend pouring the Everclear into a clear wide-mouthed receptacle with a “mL” scale on the side, like one of those large Pyrex measuring cups or beakers.
Most of the JWH will dissolve in the Everclear, except for a very small pile which will settle at the bottom. You will want to crush this up by using something like a wooden spoon or potato masher thrust down into the liquid and gently poking and scraping at the remnants of powder. Let the liquid resettle until you see more flakes at the bottom, and repeat poking and grinding. Let settle and repeat again and again, be patient, takes a bit of time but not too long and soooo worth it. Note that there is absolutely NO heating necessary, and it is quite stupid to be heating grain alcohol in your kitchen anyway. You do not need to heat anything, just use a little elbow grease to get your solution clear of any remaining flakes and granules.
Eventually you have a perfectly dissolved JWH solution which can be stored in the freezer or fridge, in a liquor bottle or, even better, a white wine bottle with a screwcap (no cork!) works great. It will store indefinitely.
With this solution, you are getting 2.5 milligrams of JWH per single milliliter of fluid.
You need a way to measure and dose by the milliliter.
Get a 3mL 22g syringe, I prefer with needle for precision but be careful with that needle waving around. You can buy these syringes in singles, ten packs, hundred packs online for cheap. I recommend a ten pack, costs about ten bucks.
Now, when ready, pour just a tiny tiny bit of your JWH juice into a shallow wide glass or small bowl. Slurp up 2 milliters of the stuff into your syringe for a 5 milligram dose (good starting reference point, very average dose). Pour whatever is left in your staging glass back into your storage bottle with aid of a small funnel. Remember to wash that staging glass very very well with dish detergent later.
Now you can inject the 2 milliliters in your syringe into your drinking vessel of choice, top with a small shot of pomegranate juice or other preferred cool beverage, knock it back….off you go.
One could conceivably procure a fair amount of JWH now, make several batches of the solution described above, and store away in the freezer or other cool dark place for years, perhaps decades, deftly weathering inevitable prohibition by various and sundry rampaging government agencies. Cheers!
Friday, 5. February 2010
Now that JWH-018 and 073 have been made illegal in Kansas and Ohio, how many other States are going to follow suit?
How are these “forensic experts” in Kansas testing the blend labeled K2??(that blend was specifically named in the hearings), what “scientific test” were run to make them announce they discovered it to be MUCH stronger than THC?? Did the partake in the “study” themselves??
The general statements made by these so called experts in the case is enough to make you sick, clueless legislators to be sure,
from my reading it was a very small lab in Germany that finally broke through the decoding and “discovered” the JWH chemicals in Spice, it seems no other “Big” Labs were able to detect it through many trials/tests.
The Legislature passed the ban in Kansas 36-1, the One that voted nay replied he thought it was extreme and unnecessary moves to ban it, and the passing was a result of reacting to hysteria and now NO RESEARCH will be able to be done on it in Kansas or Ohio.
The only good thing I can hope for is that looking at Salvia as an example, some states have banned it or made it illegal while others have decided there are BETTER things that need worrying about besides what legal alternatives adults chose to partake of, and try to make it illegal.
Friday, 5. February 2010
Where do you have proof or a fact that those states were banned for jwh-018 .. you state ohio and kansas are banned can you proof this to us!
Wednesday, 10. February 2010
Here is the link for the Kansas issue with K-2.
http://www.kmbc.com/politics/22419909/detail.html
Try Spark
Thursday, 11. February 2010
me and all of my padnas been smoking serenity now for months now and the only side effects we get is mild nausia sometimes and a sore throat, other than that its fine, but i do not know the long term effects. theres really no hard information about this drug, but i would sure like to know cause man its the shit.
Tuesday, 16. February 2010
X1, what a great idea! No need to smoke this stuff, it doesn’t need to be brought up to a burning type temp to be effective. One question though:
Can you compare the actual timing of drinking the liquid vs. smoking jwh-018 infused herbs in regards to how long it takes to hit and how long it lasts ?
Tuesday, 16. February 2010
I recently purchased a bag of K2 on ebay and found a seed in it that looks identical to a marijuana seed, has anyone else found any marijuana-like seeds in their K2? Just worried because of an upcoming drug test, I appreciate any feedback.
Tuesday, 16. February 2010
Sr. Jawah has done JWH-018, JWH-019, JWH-398, JWH-073, JWH-250 and CP 55,940 pure (both orally and smoked), as well as vaporized a “fertiliser” called ‘Forest Humus’, which contains CP 47,497 and Sr. Jawah has also smoked herbal incense brand K2.
Sr. Jawah has taken it upon himself to test out the hospitalization claims and creeper reports said to be experienced, and though Jawah respects the fact that chemical substances affect everyone differently, Jawah has come to the conclusion (from experimenting with copious amounts of the above substances) that such bad experiences may be due to reactions ranging from the other herbs contained in certain smoke blends or incenses, ego loss or possibly, it may just be one’s body physiologically overreacting to an unexpected psychological experience, which can be conquered through tolerance build up and/or repeated use starting at small doses and then increasing as time goes by.
Sr. Jawah has found that mixing different synthetic cannabinoids together for consumption at one time has EXTREMELY beneficial affects on chronic pain, insomnia, depression, anxiety, and eating habits.
Sr. Jawah has found that CP 55, 940 is A LOT more potent than any other cannabinoid Sr. Jawah has tried, and when taken in quantities greater than 120mg it is possible to have a unique experience that Sr. Jawah describes as ‘blissful-out-of-body-haze’, where it seems as though reality has taken a lucid dream state, where one feels complete euphoria and confidence, even in uncomfortable situations… meaning you really understand what is implied with the term ‘to be high’. OPERATING HEAVY MACHINERY SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. Although, social interaction is encouraged–as psychic-like occurances may happen between people who have taken similar dosage… almost like one can know what one’s peer is thinking, and feeling. JWH-018 and JWH-073 in high dosages are extremely psychedelic and may even be comparable to the experience of pure MDMA due to the an acute feeling of empathy for others and euphoria and/or a mild dosage of morning glory seeds in terms of visuals.
Also note that in high dosages, ordinary things like speech, language, music, nature, religion, politics, and self-awareness take on interesting forms, and all sort of mesh together as one. CAUTION: (this may sound silly, but for those that it applies to…and you know who you are, or should…) IF ONE IS PREDISPOSED/SENSITVE TO THE SPIRIT WORLD AND/OR SUPERNATURAL BE CAREFUL OF HIGH DOSAGES (i.e. dosages greater than 350mg)!!!!
Through Sr. Jawah’s experience when vaporizing 1 gram of K2 (which contains JWH-018) with 20 mg of CP 55,940 Sr. Jawah was motivated to attend church, clean the house, go to the zoo/nature park, gain an appreciation for previously unappreciated classical music and vocal trance music and garden all in the same day. After that day, Sr. Jawah never had the desire to try a synthetic cannabinoid ever again.
Some things to consider:
Taking orally/ingesting usually takes a little longer (3 to 15 minutes longer) for effects to kick in, but peak effects last longer.
When smoked, effects usually hit immediately after exhaling. Take only one hit and hold it in for as long as possible for best effects, instead of taking multiple hits. Water pipes are not recommended, though they are fun novelty pieces. The trippiest experience Sr. Jawah had was when Sr.Jawah filled an entire bowl with 1g of K2 Summit and smoked it out of gravity water pipe–expereince mimiced morning glory seed experience, except with an extreme body stone.
Synthetic chemicals are most likely safe, but you never know…there may be a reason as to why they don’t exist in nature, so be responsible and be smart!
Wednesday, 17. February 2010
To Big House:
Aboslutely, yes, I have seen these “look alike” seeds before in blends like KSpice and Serenity Now. I was freaked out as well, but my test went fine. Good luck!
Thursday, 18. February 2010
this for all you people that say you had a bad trip off this stuff are utterly stupid or have no idea what a buzz is. you must be agents of the people who wanna criminalize this stuff or freaked out when you got alittle too high for your own good. i’ have personally smoked tons of k-2, serenity now and many other herbal blends. it is possible to get very high on this stuff so if you don’t kno what you are doin then you be careful. it will not kill you at all no matter how much you smoke and about the long term affects of it doesn’t bind to your DNA so your good on the cancer thing. so be your best judge and don’t act like joe face up there and (sudjest as he put it) quit and run to the doctor.
Thursday, 18. February 2010
PURE JWH-018 IS VERY POWERFUL. 10MG (.01g) (1/100TH OF A GRAM) IS A VERY LARGE DOSE. THAT MUCH IS LIKE SMOKING A ENTIRE GRAM OF HYDRO. VERY STRONG
A TYPICAL DOSAGE FOR A FIRST TIME USER IS ONLY 2MG. (.002G) (1/500TH OF A GRAM)
PLEASE USE A SCALE, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EYEBALL, YOU WILL END UP IN THE HOSPITAL.
if you do a proper dosage jwh-018 is a drug very similar to marijuana. i really like it, but please, KNOW YOUR DOSAGE.
this stuff is about 50$ a gram but that is equal to about 100 really fucking strong doses so keep that in mind.
Be smart, USE A SCALE
Thursday, 18. February 2010
My VERY unscientific measurement for the J8 when I first got it was to measure out a line about 1 MM tall by 1 MM wide by 1/4″ inch long… and sprinkle that atop a bowl of parsley for one pretty punchy dose of 2-3 hits.
For what it’s worth…
I figure that was somewhere around 3 MG or so, but since my scale doesn’t weigh such teensy tiny amounts, I really don’t know — but at least it gave me SOME sort of regulated amount. Like the previous poster wrote, you DON’T want to just eyeball this stuff!! BAAAAD IDEA!!!
Friday, 19. February 2010
OliverKlohzoff, regarding your question, which was:
“Can you compare the actual timing of drinking the liquid vs. smoking jwh-018 infused herbs in regards to how long it takes to hit and how long it lasts ?”
I cannot compare directly, since I have never smoked JWH. After many hours of research, I came to the conclusion that the Everclear infusion and oral ingestion method I described above was not only the best, but really the only method I was comfortable trying. And with huge success, by the way.
So, my only experiences with JWH have been as a thoroughly dissolved, carefully dosed liquid mixed with juice.
However, I can cross-compare oral ingestion of liquid JWH vs. smoking MJ, since I’ve certainly done that plenty of times. Essentially it’s the same as eating MJ vs. smoking MJ. Orally, the effects come on slower than smoking, but last FAR LONGER. But the wait for the stuff to hit your brain after drinking is still not very long at all. Everclear dives right through your stomach lining and into your bloodstream, so really it’s a matter of wating just a few minutes for the active agents to swim up to your brain and attach to the target receptors. I notice the general effects taking shape within about 15 minutes of ingestion. Over the next 45 minutes or so, it is like going up a ramp, until without really thinking about it too much, you realize you are in the grip of a deep, pervasive stone. And then it just radiates through you for a good 3.5 to 4 hours at least.
For me this is more of a once-a-week, Saturday night thing, and I can say that I’m still deeply zonked when I go to bed 4 hours or so after ingestion. Stuff is damn clean, too. I wake up with no trouble, no hangover, no real negative residual to speak of.
Think about the positives to this method:
1) Payoff – You get the deep, long stone from “eating”, with a more gentle, less stressful upslope into the full effect…instead of the short, panicky stone with the steep, quick, and potentially stressful upslope from “smoking”, that’s also gone in an hour.
2) Accuracy – Using a 3mL syringe you can smartly, carefully regulate even very small doses and be assured of a consistent result, indefinitely. I have been able to test the physiological response difference on myself between a 2 mL dose and a 4 mL dose (which comes out to about 5 milligrams JWH vs. 10 milligrams JWH, respectively).
How would I do such a comparison if I wanted to smoke the raw crystal? I would need one of those stupidly expensive scales, and a smoking apparatus, and a perfectly reliable smoking/burning technique to ensure clean, full hits. Bah!
By the way, the results of my comparison were “very stoned” (2 mL) vs. “holy shit this is amazing” (4 mL).
3) Conservation – You are storing a totally dissolved agent in almost 100% grain alcohol, and micro-dosing only exactly the amount of liquid you need with a syringe. No scraping powder around, no getting powder on your fingers or fussing with a tiny baggie, no sprinkling, no accidental over-torching with your lighter, etc. etc. No bullshit. Your stuff lasts longer, and it’s safe in the bottle.
4) Discretion – It’s a bottle of liquor. In your liquor cabinet, fridge, or freezer. Only YOU know what’s special about that bottle. This certainly beats your grandma or cop neighbor or some little kid accidentally finding a tiny baggie containing something reminiscent of cocaine or crack in your house or car or clothing.
Cheers!
Friday, 19. February 2010
Just a note to all,
I work at a toxicology laboratory and there was a big write up in the latest Tox journal. Many labs are developing tests for this and other JWH compounds.
It wont show up in a “regular” drug screen, but since it is on the DEA list of chemicals of concern, tests are being developed so it will show up in a more extensive test (ie post-accident)
I’m not the bad guy here, but I wanted to warn yall.
Sunday, 21. February 2010
X1, thank you very, very much. I’m going to do exactly as you recommend. I agree 100% that this stuff is too powerful to try to eyeball a smokable dosage. I take it you’re always doing a 50/50 mix of 018 and 073? Have you ever tried just 018 or 073 by themselves?
Sunday, 21. February 2010
I’m sending 10MG of Jwh-073 to an associate who’s going to do some mixing with other current cannabinoids contenders; will look forward to some kind of feedback on it!
Research carries on, and this is good. We learn to discern these substances’ nuances and share this information … I’m curious to hear what anyone may have to say about Jwh-073 since I’ve never researched it myself.
Also, on a personal note, I’ve usually found that mixing meds or entheogens or dope or whatever is usually a BAD idea. I don’t manage conflicted effects well enough to try and somehow “combine” them — but am eager to hear whatever others may have done that works well for THEM.
Sunday, 21. February 2010
Oliver-
I never tried either alone. When I was doing all the reading before ever buying anything, I came to understand that people were experiencing 018 as more sativa-like (head high), and 073 as more indica-like (body high).
I came across several suggestions for blending, for a more complex, balanced stone. Some suggested a blend favoring more 073 (to mellow out the intellectual intensity of the 018), while others suggested 50/50.
It was simply more convenient to try straight 50/50, so that’s what I started with. I bought half a gram of each, and dumped them both into 400 mL Everclear, and the rest is history.
By the way I would suggest a wide-mouth sturdy vessel with a spout to do your mixing in, something like a good-size Pyrex glass pitcher, and also a funnel to pour the JWH juice back into your storage bottle. The funnel is a must. Also, just be patient with grinding the powder with your wooden spoon or whatever, and letting it settle, and grinding again. It is really quite easy and relaxing. I mentioned all this before, but the method is so sound and viable that I want to reiterate, THIS IS THE WAY TO GO, PEOPLE. Smoking is for the birds.
Back to the blend….well, I might have considered experimenting with either agent alone, or changing the blend ratio….but my first ingestion result was such an unmitigated success that I haven’t bothered, and don’t intend to tinker further. For me, 50/50 is absolutely right. It is a home run, a very smart AND sensual stone that rewards both creativity AND depravity. I like it. You will have to see what works for you.
Start with 2 mL in about 4 oz of organic orange juice, that’s a good entry point, and work up over several sessions. I’m dancing around the 4 mL line these days, and can’t see going much higher. The results are consistent and satisfactory. I also don’t plan to indulge frequently enough to induce a lasting tolerance.
Do report back if you venture it! Cheers-
Sunday, 21. February 2010
X1, I’ve been researching this stuff for 2 straight weeks now. You seem to be one of the most intelligent posters I’ve seen anywhere on the internet. I too have my concerns with the anxiety and freak-out reports of JWH-018 and am more interested in the layed back fun effect of the way JWH-073 is described. I also like the analgesic reports of JWH-073 as I have back problems. I did read a bunch of reports of people mixing 073/018 as 2:1 favoring the 073. I may go that route depending on what kind of supply I can find. Thanks for all the info you’ve provided. Anything more you can elaborate on is greatly appreciated.
Monday, 22. February 2010
man i smoked it and it made my heart feel like it was beatin out of my chest. lol but i like it better than cannabis cause it dont show up in a drug test.
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Why do pure JWH-018 and hassle with the dosage issue. Just buy Pulse or Buzz herbal blends. Pulse will get you ripped. When I asked vendor if JWH-018 was present in these blends he gave an honest response. He said nobody but the manufacturer and or a lab analysis can validate whether JWH-018 are present in any blends. However, he strongly believed that no JWH-018 are in these herbal blends/incense. I believe that if JWH-018 is present the dose is very low because you can do a blunt and get ripped without a panic attack. I rather do this than fool around with the pure stuff. I am sure it’s cheaper to buy pure JWH-018 and mix your own blend by trial and error. This is a dangerous way of getting high in my opinion.
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
I have been reading posts on here for a while. Some people have good effects while others have bad and nearly fatal. I have spoke to the top scientists in the industry regarding JWH-018, 73 and so on. Bottom line, they all recommend not to consume it. They all say its a research chemical. I seen the tox report on 018. The stuff was given to rats in various dosages and some of the rats died! That should tell everyone right there that this stuff is not “like” smoking weed. Its a very different animal and we don’t even know much about it. I also read a report of a guy smoking spice gold to the point where he was smoking 3 grams a day! Imagine that! 3 grams a day???!!! thats like $50 dollars a day, crazy!!! He’s withdrawl symptoms were so bad when he was off the stuff hes heart beat increased, blood pressure went up, no sleep, etc. but as soon as he got back on the stuff he was calm again. The material i am telling you is not an opinion, it is scientific fact, and I can go back and dig up all the information if anyone wants to see! I don’t hate the stuff, I just think that more research should of been done before consumption took place. If weed was legal, no one would even waist their time on this stuff. The crazy thing is there are synthetics for almost every street drug, which is very scary, and its just a matter of time before the masses discover them as well. personally I am looking for an all natural legal solution to this problem. International Oddities has some items like krypto, and it does give a slight buzz and effect but nothing like K2 or the others. There is a product called fusion. its all natural and they claim its just as strong as spice and im so tempted to buy it but its 50 bucks! if it works I would be hooked! I would love if isomeone could try this product and review it. [Synch: No vendor links!] if anyone wants to know which synthetics are good check these links out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LegalHighReviews
http://www.youtube.com/user/Justintm7187
God bless!
- J
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Hey J, I read your well thought out comment. It’s very hard not to agree with your points since they are based on factual data. I have ordered Fusion over the Internet for $45.00. I will let you know the effect, taste, and quality of the product this week. I also ordered Pulse, Buzz, Gonjah, Ultra Chronic, Nitro, Dank, On’o Budz, and a sample pack of DA Kind (which is a new blend). Also, the Blonde Stashish from International Oddities. From what I got from looking at reviews on YouTube, Blonde Stashish is one of the very few products at IO that gives the real effect. I think 1/2 oz is like $35 plus $10 shipping. Also, I spoke with the owners of 2 large website distributors of Pulse and Buzz who buy their products in Europe in large quantities. They asked the people in Europe if the products Pulse and Buzz contained JWH-018. The European replies are always “what is in the products is what’s listed on the package label.” So, it’s hard to validate their statement unless you get independent lab analysis. The distributors also warned me against purchasing JWH-018 off the Internet (unless you personally know the folks) and not to smoke it. They pretty much said what I said in my earlier post about playing the dangerous game of trying to figure out the right percentage of JWH-018 to use in home herbal blends. I believe that if JWH-018 is present in Buzz and Pulse the percentage is very low because I saw MisterBenson and his buddy on YouTube smoke a blunt. They were high, but not panicky or freaked out like those doing pure JHW-018. So far as the guy who was doing 3grams of Spice a day x 7 days = 21grams. That’s almost an ounce a week. I think you would have serious addiction problems with any drug doing it that much in a week. I think the bottomline is not to do pure JWH-018 in large quantities in one smoking session, period! That’s why Mickey Mouse aka lab rat is dead!
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Thanks for your investment Willie! I think everyone can benefit from your reviews of those products!!!!! Please let me know asap about fusion and other blends!!!
-J
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Ok J, I decided to spend the money because I get sick of some folks bashing herbal blends saying they don’t work. I have been smoking weed for 20 years and decided to quit a month ago. I am also looking for a natural solution eventhough we will never know whether chemicals are present without lab analysis. I also ordered other blends that have been negatively blasted on YouTube reviews as being nothing. Total Impact, Aztec Gold, Kanna, and Herbal Whoaa. Before I order any product I let vendor know that I am looking for an all natural alternative smoke that works. They could be lying, but as least I got them to admit that no unlisted chemicals are in them. We shall see!
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Willie, I appreciate your effort so much! Once you get all the products in, please review them asap once you are finished I will send you a couple dollars via paypal. You will save me and a lot of other people money if you provide honest reviews! I don’t mind tipping you!
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Hey J, no problem. As information, I had ordered 3 grams of the Tribal Warrior Ultimate herbal blend, but I cancelled the order because the vendor would not talk with me when I asked if they knew if JWH-018 is in the herbal blend. Well, not so much that they wouldn’t talk with me about the JWH-018 issue, but they wouldn’t discuss what ingredients are clearly labelled on the package. None of the ingredients they list will get you blasted like some reviewers say when testing this blend. I think it is the replacement or new and improved version of Spice Diamond. I begged the vendor through several emails to clarify if in fact the following ingredients are in this blend. They refused to discuss the matter and they refused to give me my money back until I threatened to report them. Here are the ingredients. Bare in mind that one of the ingredients has been documented in multiple clinical research studies to cause cancer:
Tribal Warrior Ultimate Herbal blend
Ingredients listed are:
> Essential oils (corn starch) (absorbent/chelating agent)
> Finely ground Damiana leaves and twigs
> Cocamide DEA
> Hydrogenated castor oil (Emollient)
> Strawberry, blueberry and cherry essence
> Phenoxyethanol (preservative)
> Panthenol (preservative)
> cl 77289 (colour)
> cl 77891 (colour)
> cl 19140 (colour)
> cl 47005 (colour)
> cl 42090 (colour)
It is the Cocamide DEA that has been known to cause cancer. As a matter of fact this particular ingredient was banned from cigarettes. I can’t do that to my body. Just say No! I will give you a review on the other blends when they are delivered.
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Willie, make me. A list of the products u want to buy and sample and I will tell u which ones are all natural. There are very few. Fusion is all natural
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
Okay J, here is my list. Some I have already mentioned:
International Oddities:
Krypto
Dro
Blueberry Bud
Albino Rhino
Black Widow
Ahia Bud
Black O
Skyscraper
Panama Gold
Other varieties:
O’no Budz
Ultra Chronic
Fusion
Sence
Herbal Whoaa
Blueberry Haze
Frost
Aztec Midnight Wind
Utopia Extreme
Demon Herbal smoke
Magma
Hawaiian Havest Blend
Total Impact
Dank
Klip Dagga
Nitro
Aztec Gold
Deliverance
High Octane
Dazed
Soma
Red Leaf
Buzz
Pulse
Gonjah
Wednesday, 24. February 2010
When I get home from work I will research all of these.
Thursday, 25. February 2010
Willie, if you can just give me the websites you are getting this stuff from , I could save you alot of trouble. I will let you know right now that everything from International Oddities is ok to smoke unless they say otherwise. The same goes for [Synch: Stop posting vendor links or I'll murder you via the Internet...] which sells fusion and alot of the other blends in your list. If you buy everything from that list im thinking your bill will be a good few hundred dollars. Anything that says “not for human consumption” such as Gonjah of course contains synthetics. If you are dealing with companies in the USA they must say not for human consumption. from what I have seen the companies that sell stuff that is ok will call their product a “tobacco alternative” The easiest thing to do is tell the company that you intend to buy their product and have it analyzed at a lab for synthetics and you would like to know up front what it contains. They will take you very seriously and let you know. Anyway, give me the list of websites that you get all these products from and I will quicky let you know what the deal is. Like i was saying IO products are ok, and the company selling fusion appears to be ok as well. I’m really looking forward to your review on fusion. I think they do rush shipping on that product as well.
also, i wouldn’t buy any products from europe, because they will tell you that spice gold is natural and ok to smoke when its not…
Sincerely,
J
Thursday, 25. February 2010
Wow J, you have really done a great job with your research. I kind of suspected that when the herbal blend says not for human consumption it’s a give away that something has been added to the herbs. Here is some interesting information for you. While compiling my extensive list I went to at least 20 websites to get prices for each of the items on my list. I found that several of the websites which includes herbal-smoke site has most of these herbal blends on my list. I went to EazySmoke site and found the rest of my items (except the sence, Buzz, Pulse, and Gonjah). I spoke with a cute sounding girl in customer services. We had a good conversation and the subject got on herbal blends on the Internet. How about she told me EazySmoke owns 20 of the herbal blend websites including the Herbal-Smoke site. EazySmoke’s Fusion is $49.95 with free shipping. Herbal-Smoke’s Fusion is $55.00. Other than the Fusion, I am also going to get from EazySmoke on my wish list is Magma, Hardcore, and High Octane. I know for a fact as you said that all of the herbal blends from Herbal-Smoke and EazySmoke are free of chemicals. The clerk said Magma and High Octane is as good as, if not better than Fusion. J, it has been a pleasure swimming through the murky sea of free-chemical herbal blends. At least we have identified sites that carries these products. As always, we shall see. Thanks!
Thursday, 25. February 2010
Willie,
Good to know. about easysmoke. I thought herbal-smoke was their own entity, however this isn’t the case. Easy smoke does appear to sell spice gold, but they are not currently selling it. There is another website selling magma xxx which they claim is stronger then magma! [Synch: For fuck's sake!] Yeah, I’m thinking this site easy smoke has the top products. I mean their stuff costs just as much as the synthetic ones. They also have a combo pack * 1 – Blaze Herbal Smoke – 1/8 Ounce (3.5 grams)
* 1 – Fusion – 1/8 Ounce (3.5 grams)
* 1 – Magma – 3 Grams
* 1 – HARD CORE – 3 Grams
for like $186
All of the products from the combo pack seem to be very potent and the best! Other then Fusion, i would be very interested in Hard core, as it is the most expensive out of all the products they sell. The girl is probably right. BTW, make sure you become a member of their site so you get free shipping. Also ask her if you can get free product if you do reviews on youtube. I think alot of people don’t even know about this site! Don’t forget I will tip you via paypal after you do the reviews!
Thursday, 25. February 2010
Hey J, your link to the site in your comment is going to be vaporized by Synch (lol). I will go ahead and order the Hard Core tonight and give you a straight up honest review. I am not going to order the Hardcore XXX because it’s $59.95 for 3 grams. If we can find a natural herbal blend that is as good as or better than the synthesized herbal blends on the market it will be worth paying the extra money. I stop smoking weed (20 years) last month after I found out my trusted dealer of 5 years was spraying the weed with windex aka ammonia. For all those on here who say they would rather do the real MJ, be careful because you don’t know what’s in it. Folks are trying to make a dollar. They don’t care if you are squeaky clean inside!
Thursday, 25. February 2010
willie, my email is internetconsultant2009@gmail.com send me an email and we’ll keep in touch bro! thats crazy with the windex. I kinda figured something was going on because the last time i indulged things just didn’t feel right.
Thursday, 25. February 2010
[Link to study on withdrawal from "Spice Gold"]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719097/
Thursday, 25. February 2010
The next person to post a link to a vendor website will be banned from commenting. Srsly.
OliverKlohzoff: I appreciate the concern, but they seem to be different people.
I’m going to clean up the last few replies…
Thursday, 25. February 2010
I think the biggest concern i have is that most people make there incense with ACETONE!?!?! Do you really want to be smoking that shit? I use Kind Incense its way better and i can just about guarantee its the safest blend. no acetone!!! I cant tell you what they do use bc you wouldnt believe me anyway. I LOVE YOU JWH!!
Thursday, 25. February 2010
Since you’re obviously no chemist, your guarantee means little. Acetone evaporates. No one smokes any acetone.
Thursday, 25. February 2010
your right im def no where near chemist status. Im just a stoner who likes money. i helped start up a couple diff blends. im just saying man my first couple acetone/chemical blends were horrible. i know most of it evap’s but i know all of it wont. think about it you soak the herbs in a nasty chemical. i dont think the JWH is the part to worry about. no chemicals. thats prolly y the FDE is all over this shit. because all you people think u need a chemical to break down JWH… Like i said im no where near a chemist but i swear on my life you can do this without chem. Im not going to tell you wat it is because im making too much money.
Thursday, 25. February 2010
josh iwould love to hear about how to mix these blends. i ordered 1 gram of jwh–018. i need to know the best herbs to use and the best way to aply the jwh. I will pay you for this info. thank you. my email is vincent-mendieta87@hotmail.com
Thursday, 25. February 2010
josh, take some of that money you’re making and buy some common sense.
Any decent blend tek will tell you how to properly aerate/ventilate the herb so that the acetone evaporates. Completely. It’s a similar concept to cleaning the cutting board in your kitchen by wiping it down with vinegar. The vegetables you chop on your cutting board the next day aren’t going to taste like vinegar. Guess why, josh.
Back to some of the comments of the poster J…I don’t get the selective fear-mongering about JWH. Rats died? OK, how much were they given? Can you link to, or quote with strong references, that particular study? It would be helpful to understand the dosage to body mass relationship, and extrapolate to humans…knowing full well all the time that rats and humans aren’t exactly cross-compatible species.
It bothers me when people fear-monger about JWH while singing the praises of this or that “all natural” blend. The ingredients of Fusion aren’t even FULLY disclosed. At the end of the list of Fusion ingredients, you find something interesting. Here’s the deal:
Ingredients: Includes Canavalia rosea, Nelumbo nuifera, leonotis leonurus, Pedicularis densiflora, Pedicularis centranthera, Scutellaria lateriflora , Maconha Brava, Althea officinalis, Trifolium pratense, Sceletium tortuosum, Leonurus cardiaca , Lenotis nepetifolia, Alepidea amatymbica resin in addition to other botanical and other herbal extracts.
Notice that last part….in addition to…this other stuff that we’re not going to tell you what it is….just trust us. BUY NOW!!! Truth is, you don’t know what those other “extracts” are. Maybe if you gave enough of them, whatever they are, to rats, they would die.
I also suspect that anyone with a serious investment in the blend scene would just hate, hate, hate to have their customers bled away by entities selling direct-to-consumer, A-grade synthetic cannabinoids. I mean, why bother with all these innocuous, benign, time- and money-wasting botanicals and herbals when you can just get to the point, and get something you can easily dose and regulate yourself, that tweaks your brain receptors in just the right way with no bullshit? So you see why it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously who fear-mongers in a needlessly provocative manner about rats dying from JWH and then twaddles on and on about the glories of this or that exotic blend of sugar-coated leaves and twigs.
Friday, 26. February 2010
Given the situation that the price of JWH-018 is down to around $50/gram now… who needs to buy anything ILLEGAL for quite a bit of the same effect?
And as cheap as it is… who would quibble if their homebrew Spice-like concoction isn’t as potent as it absolutely possibly could be? A bottle of Everclear costs me $17, and with that I can take 3 grams of J8, let it soak/dry in 60 or so grams of parsley (very cheap at Sam’s Club)… and have enough resulting blend to durn near last me a LIFETIME!
A single pinch hit a few times a week will last me a LONG time… and leaves enough for sharing with others. Health risks seem minimal, and tolerance stays at a level that one hit is all I need or want for a couple hours worth of buzztime.
So the bottom line is — why buy the commercial blends — with their questionable content — when making your own is so cheap and simple?
Friday, 26. February 2010
Or why bother with herbs AT ALL, when a JWH juice cocktail is even cheaper and simpler?
By the way, I gave some to a rat. It died. Autopsy report: killer orgasm.
Friday, 26. February 2010
You are funny x1. When i get time i will dig up the report on the stuff about dead rats. If you give a rat THC will it die? i think not
Friday, 26. February 2010
x1: Waste of a rat.
Ironically, if you killed a lot more of them, they would have been worth it. Statistical significance FTW.
J: the stuff about the male rats dying is in this actual post. See the “Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay” heading above.
Friday, 26. February 2010
J:
If you give a rat enough THC….yes, it will die.
THC Wiki excerpt:
Information about THC’s toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol#Toxicity
And from the JWH assays described at the top, it seems to me, if I’m reading them right, and if they indeed turn out to be from a credible source, or are at least eventually vindicated by comparable results from non-anonymous, credible sources…..that it would take a truly massive dosage of JWH in a human to induce death through respiratory failure.
And out of all the giant pile of ridiculous sob stories on the internet from people who stupidly didn’t carefully measure and ration their JWH, but instead decided to eyeball, and ballpark, and toke this extraordinarily potent research chemical with devil-may-care casual obliviousness…..and then had a really bad time, and in some cases got to ride on the wahmbulance to the emergency daycare….I haven’t come across one death. Have you?
I have read reports of “difficulty breathing” from some people who had absolutely no idea how much they had smoked, since they guesstimated their ration, or went back and took additional tokes when they shouldn’t have, or both. Hard to tell if that’s part of the psychological freakout, or a real physical anomaly. This stuff could be dangerous to your respiration at very high ingestion amounts. But so far I haven’t seen anything that makes JWH more “dangerous”, in a generic sense, than THC. What I have seen is an AWFUL LOT of typical human stupidity and lack of respect for the chemical’s potency. Let’s not demonize the substance itself until we can at least demarcate the HSQ*.
*Human Stupidity Quotient
Friday, 26. February 2010
X1: Got my JWH-018 and JWH-073 in yesterday. Also got my bottle of 190 proof Everclear and 500ml glass measuring cup. Just waiting on that mg scale to come in off eBay(should be today) and and I’ll be going the “X1″ route of mix and enjoy.
100% agree, no need to disolve/spray/smoke.
And by the way, Josh’s secret method of disolve/apply is probably just Everclear.
Friday, 26. February 2010
[Synch: This commenter may be mistaken about the dosage suggested, evolved independently of life as we know it, or is merely insane]
To x1,
I completely agree with you. The largest dosage of JWH-018 that Jawah has taken is ~400mg and nothing bad happened to him in terms of his respiration. As a matter of fact Jawah didn’t notice any changes in his breathing. The only “downside” was he couldn’t really walk right (was very wobbly and I…I mean HE couldn’t really tell how fast or slow he was moving..lol) and talking seemed like an uneeded chore (not because he couldn’t talk, but because in his mind he thought that we as a human race have existed long enough to where we should be able to understand each others feelings and body language…lol…it was like he had an extreme desire to “evolve” in terms of communication). And on top of that, the effects wore off after ~10h, with little after effects other than a feeling of rejuvination. Jawah has close to 2 grams left, since he ordered from an online source that only charges $45/g.
Believe Jawah… the amount you would have to take in order to even come close to death would probably be in the KILOgrams, not mg. Like when taking MJ, there’s a point where you just can’t get any higher and taking more just becomes pointless, unless you’re trying to force yourself into a full 8hr sleepy-time.
Jawah is no scientist, but Jawah is also not a little b*** rat that eats pellets and digs dirt holes for a living.
Friday, 26. February 2010
400mg in one dose ????? WHAT ??????
People are reporting problems at 10mg. Surely 400mg’s of JWH-018 in one dose would = a hospital visit.
PLEASE !!! Nobody out here read above and think about taking a dose anywhere near that.
Friday, 26. February 2010
X1: Got my scale in today and did the 2:1 073/018 mix(.67mg’s 073/.33mg’s 018). I bought a 1 Liter bottle of Everclear. Therefore, I thought I might as well use 500ML with 1 gram of product, yeilding a 2mg per ml mix. That way the 1 Liter bottle would work out for 2 exact batches. I also figured the extra 100ml’s of Everclear would aid in the dissolving of the JWH.
The JWH dissolved fairly well in the Everclear. About 80% dissolved in the first couple minutes. 10 more minutes and another 10% dissolved. Another hour of occasionally stirring and the last 10% dissolved.
X1, did some of your Everclear evaporate during the time it took to mix ? I think I lost about 20ml’s of Everclear through evaporation.
I plan on trying out the mix tomorrow.
Friday, 26. February 2010
JaWaH:
Did you mean perhaps 40 mg, rather than 400?
Even 40 mg would be FAR MORE than anyone should ever need, I would think. You would have to stack tolerance upon tolerance upon tolerance, and then sprinkle a little batshit insanity on top, to ever require such a dose. I don’t think I would publicly recommend anyone trying more than 10 mg, although I’m sure the veteran high flyers would likely have no trouble soaring a bit above 10.
Anyway, it’s good to have a report from a megadose “survivor” about negligible impact on respiration. But let’s avoid any further such experiments, and leave deep field toxicology testing to the rats!
Oliver:
I didn’t lose nearly so much to evaporation, but I really didn’t leave it out. I did all my stirring and crushing in one swoop of about 20 minutes or so, then put the cap on the bottle and stowed her away in the fridge. I really didn’t let it sit and dissolve on its own. I mean, the great lot of it dissolved straightaway, and then I spent some time mashing around trying to crumble up the last little bit on the bottom with my implement. So it didn’t get much chance to dissolve. Shouldn’t matter too much for you, so long as you’ve visually confirmed by closely eyeballing the liquid, holding it up to a bright light, confirming you see absolutely no specks or flakes anywhere in the medium. So long as your ratios were sound to start with, your individual dispensation should still hold when you ration out by the milliliter. You should have a liquid that looks clear close up, but ever so slightly pale yellow from a distance. This is why a white wine bottle w/ screwcap works so well as a cover. From 6 ft. away you’d never know it wasn’t really Pinot Grigio!
So, you’ll be consuming slightly more Everclear in a ration than I am, but at less than 5 milliters for initial experiment, I don’t think you’ll accidentally be getting drunk anytime soon.
By the way, did you get a syringe? I didn’t see that in your list. How are you planning to dose that out?
Where did you find a 1 L bottle of E? I thought they only came in 750 mL and 1.75 L. That IS handy.
Cheers, happy testing. And THANKS for being smart about it! Going this route you have virtually assured yourself of an entirely relaxed and manageable experiment. At this point I can only adamantly stress the necessity of carefully measuring your first milliliter ration, which I’m assuming will be in the 2 to 2.5 milliliter range.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
My local liquor store had Everclear in 750ml, 1 Liter and 1.5L bottles.
My liquid looks 100% clear. I took an empty 1 Liter clear rum bottle(just like the Everclear bottle), cleaned it out and removed the labels. I need a yellow smiley face sticker to put on it
I have plenty of 1ml insulin syringes because of a diabetic pet. I have removed the needles before and used them to suck up flea medication and apply to animals. I will do the same thing for my happy drink. I’m trying to come up with a clever name for it. Any ideas ?
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I guess it depends on the juice or mixer. I’ve been going with Uncle Matt’s organic orange juice. Although I’m not adding any grenadine, I’ve taken to calling her a “Bonsai Sunrise”.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I mean FOUR HUNDRED MILLIGRAMS, not 40. And Jawah is not insane, he just likes taking psychedelic experiences to their extremeties and is an adrenaline junkie. If anyone has skype, Jawah can make arrangements to show you him taking 400mg orally and then you may watch the experience as long as you desire. This is why it confuses me as to why people are going to the hospital. I don’t think fear and paranoia are reasons enough to call the wops unless you are having thoughts of dangering yourself or others…none of which happened at the 4-0-0 mg dosage. Jawah just had trippy silly thoughts, trouble staying still and walking, and music and the news sounded supernatural and AMAZING. In the onset (first min to ~12min), Jawah couldn’t really move…felt a cementing stone in body (but I could still move if I wanted to, I just couldn’t tell how fast or slow I was moving…my time and force perception were practically non-existent [THIS MIGHT FREAK OUT PEOPLE UNEXPERIENCED IN OTHER PSYCHEDELICS like shrooms or salvia divinorum, but for the experienced psy-user these are just a part of the fun]), but after about 15min Jawah could function normally (besides the wobbling and giddiness/random twitches).
The main reason I wasn’t afraid to take that much was because I figured JWH-018 is said to be four to five times more potent than THC. With that being known, as well as knowing that a medium dose of THC (0.03 mg/kg = 2.1 mg in a 70 kg individual) dissolved in alcohol is roughly equivalent to smoking approximately 1/2 of a marijuana cigarette, or “joint”. So Jawah thought, how many half joints can a person take to the head before having to go to the hospital, multiplied by 5?
And after pondering on that for about 5 seconds and thinking about the math in Jawah’s head, Jawah realized, “what a stupid f***ing question! This is gonna be awesome! Bottoms up…”
And boy was Jawah right
Saturday, 27. February 2010
JaWaH, I would find the skype viewing to be very educational. When do you plan to show the demonstration?
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I’d like to see this too. How about by Yahoo ID on webcam ?
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I agree with Oliver, yahoo would be cool to. JaWaH, please be careful. Don’t make a crazy educational presentation just to get an A+! We believe you.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
Does Jawah always warp in and out of referring to himself in the third person? Because when Jawah sometimes refers to himself in the third person, it makes non-Jawahs wonder if perhaps Jawah has produced in himself a lingering self-dissociation and ego detachment from overzealous psychedelic indulgence, and perhaps Jawah would like to float back down to terra firm until at least such time as Jawah can consistently refer to himself in the first person, assuring non-Jawahs around him that he is, in fact, not loco.
J, don’t encourage him. This is outlier behavior, but you know this exceptional kind of gross abuse is exactly the sort of thing that gets what seems to be a relatively harmless substance banned. This is the kind of absurd human behavior I was talking about, which gives a substance a bad name. Watching some loco twitch and bug out via Skype after the loco willingly consumes a ridiculous amount of something that will inebriate sufficiently at a fraction of that….well, that’s just a whole mess of arrogant stupid.
Not to mention, that is just a hellish waste of good RC. Jawah, stop wasting Daddy’s trust fund.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I agree with x1. Don’t do it. I’m NOT going to watch.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
I want to try the everclear thing, but I would also0 know how to mix into an herb or a blend. i love smoking. can sombody please tell me or reffer me to someone who can? -please-
Saturday, 27. February 2010
x1,
That is of course your opinion. What I think of as “gross abuse” probably differs from your perception of it. What matters is whether or not high dosages of jwh-018 would be suicide for a human being. The answer to that question is, “we don’t know”, but Jawah is here to tell you that 400mg is safe, and so he is a living testament to something you would be too cautious to try out yourself. When you learn for yourself that this substance is more help than harm in higher doses, you will thank him.
This substance has been in existence long enough for us to have the right to know its effects. Once the knowledge of how to make this chemical was conceieved, it became fair game and Jawah is not going to wait on the goveez to illegalize this when it obviously is beneficial and was created solely for our benefit. You live in a world where you let people restrict your ability to consume something that God made for you to consume in whatever amount you desire, as well as being given the ability to create (which has been exemplified by Professor Huffman!), while being fed poisons like alcohol and nicotine and money so that these men you give power to can maintain their evil hold and destroy this world as swiftly as possible.
Does death exist? Yes. Should we let it rule our lives? No.
If you really cared about the health effects of jwh outside of the experience it gives you, you wouldn’t be doing it in the first place. We barely understand the way our bodies work, and based on what we do know, the metabolism of these chemicals have a potential for being cancerogenic and may stupify you to the point where you can’t tell the rate at which you breathe. Does this mean we should stop enjoying our experiences and never touch it again? Hell no. If a man can create a chemical that doesn’t exist in nature and make it commune with nature in a positive way, I see a large hope for another man or woman to be instrumental in creating a cure for scare tools like cancer and disease. Why do drugs (especially one that was created by a human being and has no human tests available?) at all if you value your health so much? You’re not fooling anyone.
If you don’t find 400mg enjoyable, then don’t do it. If Jawah finds 400mg enjoyable, then he will do it. Simple as that.
I’ll post my email as soon as I change computers.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
Like I said before, this stuff is dangerious. Rats have died from this stuff. We could go on and on about this and that.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
ive heard water can be used. is this true??
Saturday, 27. February 2010
Jawah,
You can do whatever you want, and godspeed on your journey of light and truth. Or whatever.
I can only speak for myself…I don’t feed on “poisons”, as you say, like alcohol and nicotine and money. In fact, I think chomping 400mg of JWH is a fucking hell all waste of money.
I think you are selectively invoking Huffman’s name to your cause. Huffman’s on record saying “DO NOT CONSUME.” He certainly wouldn’t advocate what you’re doing, no matter how colorfully you cloak it in truth-questing, freedom-fighter rhetoric.
There is this thing called moderation, which I am encouraging, especially since most who come across a forum like this will be getting their feet wet for the first time with a curious synthetic substance. The information you provided is helpful. Now we know there is at least one human who, in the name of truth, justice, and beauty, gobbled up way more JWH than ever necessary, and fortunately did not suffer a respiratory failure.
But that is probably the limit of your helpfulness. Certainly watching you twitch on Skype moves from educational to macabre. But….if it is “fun” for you….
Meanwhile, as for the world we live in, and dark government forces and whatnot….yes, I have already in this thread suggested a method for acquiring, liquefying, and storing a lifetime supply of JWH as a safeguard against rampaging bureaucracies. Perhaps a combination of overt political activism and discreet preparation and consumption is more helpful than letting kids watch us twitch and drool on live streaming video.
And J…once again….rats have also died from THC. Continually invoking the rats of doom….I don’t know…is that helpful?
Saturday, 27. February 2010
Will JWH-018 show on a urinalysis? I’m active duty military. What type of test does the DoD use to screen personel, and what does it screen for? I’ve heard conflicting reports. Don’t let them take my JWH-018!
Saturday, 27. February 2010
kushy, NO………. JWH is not soluable in water. JWH is soluable in ethanol(Everclear) and acetone(pure 100% fingernail polish remover). It is probably soluable in other nasty things but in water it is not.
Saturday, 27. February 2010
Jerry, there is no test for JWH. If you are US military, the DoD does not test you for it. This is because there is no test for it. It is an uncontrolled, unscheduled substance in the USA. Since JWH is chemically unrelated to THC (it is a totally different molecular animal), and not a cannabis derivative, you are fine. JWH is on the DEA “drugs of concern” list. This means it may in the future achieve scheduled (banned) status if there is enough sensationalism and negative exposure…for instance if a Senator’s son makes a video of himself tweaking out on an immoderate dosage.
In the meantime, piss away. You’re safe.
Sunday, 28. February 2010
Hey, regarding the military I pulled up this info:
U.S. Army #
The U.S. Army has instituted a policy banning spice. At least one person at Fort Bragg, NC was caught with a positive urinalysis. A visitor writes that Spice has not shown up in urinalyses conducted at Fort Benning by the Army as of June 2009. (unconfirmed) (thanks p,r) (last updated Jan 28, 2010)
U.S. Air Force #
Spice is prohibited at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas (see Stars and Stripes).
U.S. Marines #
The Marines have banned Spice and the component chemicals entirely. The first Marine ban that we know of began on Sept 10 2008, at US Marine Bases in Japan by Marine Corps Bases Japan Order 5355.1 (see article).
U. S. Navy #
According to one person, Spice products are considered completely prohibited in the U.S. Navy and that at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida a number of airpeople have been discharged for violating the rule against using Spice. (unconfirmed) (thanks t) (last updated Oct 1 2009)
Sunday, 28. February 2010
I wouldn’t mess with the stuff if you are in the military!
Sunday, 28. February 2010
J:
I’m not sure that info is legit. Those look more like Erowid rumors. I haven’t been able to find any credible confirmation that any branch of the US military has banned anything to do with any JWH-type product or substance.
I did find this very intriguing thread:
http://87.251.61.231/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
Looks fairly current, last post on Feb. 22 and it’s a big negative on any real testing. Perhaps there is an internal propaganda campaign to try to get military personnel not to indulge…but I don’t see anywhere any confirmation of actual legit testing that catches anyone. Did you find any credible report of anyone who has positive tested and been booted or punished? I see that last thing in your US Navy example says “unconfirmed”.
Sunday, 28. February 2010
Just be careful,..-J
Sunday, 28. February 2010
Got a chance to try my 018/073 Everclear mix today. I gotta say, it works well but really isn’t for me. I guess I tend to already think and micro-manage everything in my head too much to begin with. My mind just runs and trys too hard.
I started off with a 1.5ml dosage in a 1/4 glass of Mt. Dew. You could not taste it at all. With my mix being 2mg’s per ml, my total dosage was 3mg’s. It took 30-45 minutes for the effect to begin. At the 30-45 minute mark, the first thing that hit was the munchies ! By the 1 hour mark, it was working pretty good. For me, it tends to make me think too hard. I found I had a hard time reading things on the internet and comprehending them without trying really hard to think things out. I had a customer come into my business and I had a hard time remembering basic details…….. LOL. I didn’t really enjoy my mind racing although I did find some things more funny.
Now I’m trying to figure out what to do with a bunch of this stuff left over. I’ve got a 500ML Everclear mix that is probalby good for 250 doses ! Then I have another .66 grams of 018 and 1.33 grams of 073.
Sunday, 28. February 2010
sorry to hear that man.. your better off using fusion!!!!
Sunday, 28. February 2010
Oliver are you saying you chose to try this for the first time while at work? I don’t think that would be such fun.
The first time I did it was exactly like the first time I ever smoked MJ…a little bit surprising and overwhelming….but ultimately a very classic analog experience, complete with ferocious snack munchdown at about the 2.5 hour stage.
Yeah, I would say if the mind can’t be calmed, and the body is not in a recreational place or state….maybe not ideal set/setting for initial discovery.
Sunday, 28. February 2010
I’m trying to locate a legitimate online source of jwh-018 in the US but it is proving extremely difficult since none of the discussion forums I have come across allow vendor discussion. I understand that is the case for this site as well, but could someone at least provide me some hints/tips on how to find and select a reliable source that isn’t going to simply take my payment and disappear, or worse send me some other dangerous chemical that isn’t in fact jwh-018? I tried one of these herbal blends with jwh-018 awhile ago and really enjoyed the high it produced but would prefer to avoid smoking it and am interested in trying the method discussed here involving dissolving it in everclear. Thanks!
Sunday, 28. February 2010
It doesn’t seem by the report that it is any more toxic than good old MJ which pretty mild as far as all the toxic crap in the world that we eat and breathe everyday.
Sunday, 28. February 2010
bob:
If you are looking for a reliable US source for certain researchchemicalz then make sure you do a good, specific google search and hopefully you will stumble upon a site that does indeed offer such researchchemicalz in the US. I can’t imagine it would be too hard to find the researchchemicalz you seek if you simply do the proper search for whatever researchchemicalz you are looking for.
If you are searching a reliable source that may not be US based but is still reliable, then once again I encourage you to do a proper google search, and hopefully you will find a place that allows you to buythemg . Surely there is at least one international provider that would let people buythemg if they are curious.
Good luck
Tuesday, 2. March 2010
LOL X1, I got researchchemicalz too, should come up in a google search.
And yes I was at work but it’s my own place of business, I own it. Saturday afternoons are pretty much dead, nothing going on. I thought it would be a good time to give it a try. I tried even leaning back and closing my eyes, just couldn’t make myself relax, really sends your mind into overdrive. Does it do that to you too ?
I wouldn’t mind trying it again except for the fact that it lasts so damn long. For me, the full affects took an hour to hit and lasted 3-4 hours.
Tuesday, 2. March 2010
Oliver:
No, I don’t get overdrive brain. I get ganja-esque, well-toasted brain. I mean, it’s a perfect home run for my physiology.
Perhaps I can attempt some totally unscientific observation and speculation with regard to your experience.
You mentioned Mountain Dew as your drink medium. Half a cup? Was it regular Mt Dew, i.e. not diet or any other variant? I believe Mt Dew is heavily caffeinated. Even a little bit might get a brain that has been sensitized by new, novel chemical agents racing a bit. Not to mention, quite frankly Mt Dew has a bunch of other crap in it, most of it not so good.
You might consider going with straight 100% fruit juice next time.
Next unscientific speculation: ratio. You tilted more heavily to the 073, 2:1. Perhaps you experienced a JWH clash. Perhaps the 018 and its sativa-like brain high was fighting for traction against the heavier saturation of the indica-like 073 body high. Perhaps, in your particular neuro-pipes, 018 likes more of a fair fight, and protests loudly when outnumbered by 073.
You might think this a bizarre speculation…but I was struck by your comment about getting hungry so soon, within 45 minutes of onset. That doesn’t sit well. It makes me think that in YOUR system, 073 hits harder and causes a bit of thrashing. I am generally delineating 073 as much heavier on the body, including with respect to appetite.
Of course it’s possible you didn’t eat a full, well-balanced meal beforehand…which would be a no-no. Have a nice bit of pasta and veg at least an hour before liftoff.
You might consider a small test 50/50 sub-batch consisting of 125mg 018 and 125mg 073 dissolved in 100mL Everclear. Sounds like you have enough of all materials left over to give it a go. It would be a shame not to know if ratio really is the key.
There’s the possibility, too, that you took what might be considered a not-quite-breakthrough dose…meaning you took just enough to agitate, but not quite enough to push all the way over the hill to full, toasty burn, at which point the mind leaves off with its worrying and just enjoys the ride.
For me, there is a bit of mental fidgeting, and also increase in body heat, during that first 45-minute upslope…but all of that burns off in the grip of the full bake and it’s a good 3+ hours of kite-flying after that.
So, at the end of analysis, you did accumulate a little batch of variables different from my method and practice. Compared to me, you had:
1. Different 018-073 ratio (yours was 2:1, 073 to 018….mine was 1:1)
2. Higher Everclear-to-JWH ratio in liquid JWH preparation
3. Lower initial test dosage (3mg into your system, if I figured right, vs. 5mg for my first test)
4. Caffeine and funky chemical soda as drink substrate (vs. my organic fruit juice)
5. Work/business setting, replete with customer
And probably other differences that I can’t think of. Also I tend only to test at night, and kill most lights and noises. If you’re prone to get agitated by external stimuli, that might be another adjustment to consider.
Shame if you went through all this research and money and don’t find the right balance. But it’s supposed to be fun. No point in doing this if cost exceeds benefit. Do report back if you take another plunge.
Wednesday, 3. March 2010
JWH-018 will not cause a positive urine test for THC, I have tested this.
Thursday, 4. March 2010
I felt its necessary for someone to talk about what to do in case of an overdose. A while back, I had a bad panic attack from using too much. From my experience the first thing I did was drink plenty of water. If you are driving a car try to find a close friend or relitive close by. You don’t want to drive too far. Try to minimize your driving. It is very dangerious to drive if you OD on this stuff. Try not to panic as your heart rate will prolly go up. Your body temp will prolly drop and you’l need a blanket to keep warm. Personally I drank some milk and drank a fruit smooothy. You want to get some food in your stomach I think. This was just my experience. I’m not telling anywone to do what I did. I’m just explaining what helped me overcome my adverse experience. Because most people take this stuff litely. I think its very important to educate people on how to prepare and possible options on what to do in an overdose situation. Because a person in the wrong place at the wrong time on an OD of this could easily die! If an elderly person OD’s on this stuff they could die from a heart attack from rapid heart rate. This stuff is no joke!
Thursday, 4. March 2010
I pity the elderly person who has decided, stupidly, to smoke an unmeasured amount of any strange chemical.
BTW, elderly people can also have a heart attack from having sex. And many other things.
Bottom line: PRECISELY MEASURE YOUR DOSE, whether smoking or diluting in a solvent. If you cannot obtain or afford the highly sensitive measuring device needed to measure a crystalline solid at the single milligram level, then please STRONGLY CONSIDER the non-smoking, liquid dilution method found in this thread.
Keep it under 10 mg for starters. Virtually every single panic attack horror story on the internet is from some yokel who decided to “guesstimate” their intake, with their eyeballs. You can’t guesstimate milligrams of fine grain powder with your eyeballs. FAIL. BAD FAIL. Don’t be stupid.
Thursday, 4. March 2010
X1 I’m talking about smokable products like spice. The jwh is already measured and you can OD on this!
Thursday, 4. March 2010
You weren’t specific. And since this is a JWH thread, and not a Spice thread, naturally I assumed…. There wasn’t anything in your post that made it clear you were talking about OD’ing on an herbal blend. How did you manage to do that, by the way?
Anyway, you can OD on anything. Caffeine…oxygen….mustard. Stop being hysterical. The best advice you gave was for people to lie down and have some juice.
J, you need to lie down and have some juice. Sometimes the ominous tone of your posts, and the constant harping on the “dark side” of JWH, (as opposed to Fusion, which is wonderful and miraculous and has no negatives, right?), makes it sound like you are suffering from chronic Spice panic attack flashbacks.
Lie down. Have some juice.
This is probably the main reason why people shouldn’t touch any blend crap anyway. Just buy the raw active chemical and control your own dosage. The more variables you control at home, the better.
Friday, 5. March 2010
I may not have the most precise method of using JWH-018… but what I do is simple and effective.
One gram of j8 is put in one cup of Everclear and stirred well, allowed to settle, stirred again, and repeated a few times over the course of an hour or whatever it takes to become totally dissolved.
17 grams of regular Sam’s Club dried parsley is put in a pyrex cake pan, and the Everclear/J8 mix is poured over it. Stir well, level it all out, and leave it in a room temperature place for a couple days, stirring it around a few times until it is dry.
You’ll end up with just about 18 grams of finished product. Usual dose is about a half of an 1/8 teaspoon — one moderate hit. Effects last a couple hours.
Works like a charm!
Friday, 5. March 2010
I am military and i tried happy shaman herbs once. The feelings were hard to explain. After that I waited until the morning time to take my morning piss for the at home drug test and it came out negative, but can it affect me over time or it just wont be on the drug test at all in navy??? Can someone who is navy give me their experience and what happened???
Friday, 5. March 2010
How does JWH-018 stay in your system?
Thanks.
Bob
Saturday, 6. March 2010
Bob:
Based on the assays that are the basis of this thread (found at top), there’s no evidence that JWH-018 accumulates in your body over time. Rather it seems to be distributed and excreted in hours.
You do have to take this with a huge grain of salt…as these purported tests were done anonymously.
Hopefully everyone is actually downloading the PDF at top and reading the full assays for themselves. Here are some relevant bullet points from the results summary, which is the last PDF in the file:
Rat Pharmacokinetics Results Commentary:
• A rat pharmacokinetic study was performed by bolus IV injection at 5 mg/kg and blood was collected at various time points for 24 hours post-dose. JWH-018 showed a bi-phasic distribution suggesting both distribution and elimination phases. The clearance was consistent of hepatic blood flow rates in a rat of (55 ml/min/kg). The volume of distribution suggests that the drug is well distributed. No accumulation was observed.
• JWH-018 distributes well throughout the rat. It is metabolized and eliminated normally and shows a half life of ~2 hours.
Sunday, 7. March 2010
I have received gwh-018 but the only thing I could find was ever clear 151 proof, will this work for the sollution that x1 has provided us with.
Sunday, 7. March 2010
dunno, got my researchchemicalz in, did the 151 everclear mix, 1.5g (1g 073, .5g 018) to 750ml, so 2mg/ml. I started taking 2ml at a time, waiting an hour, then 5ml, still nothing… i just knocked back10ml of the stuff. what’s going on here? the powder never completely dissolved! did i get took? tried vaping some of the 018…nada. the K2 works fine for me. not a troll.
Sunday, 7. March 2010
Vince:
No. You need the 190 proof. 151-proof Everclear is not sufficient. You can order the 190 proof online if you can’t find it locally.
pooh:
It is impossible to know whether your JWH was good or bunk. But it is clear from your post that you used the wrong Everclear. You need 190-proof, not 151. This is why “the powder never completely dissolved”.
Even in the correct 190-proof Everclear, repeated manual agitation by a human is required for the powder to dissolve completely. As is made clear in the described method. This is not difficult.
Furthermore, I don’t see why you used a full 750mL of liquid to dissolve 1.5g. My method described was for a total of 1g of agent (500mg each of 018 and 073) dissolved in 400mL of 190-proof.
If you were going to use 1.5g of agent, this would extrapolate to 600mL of required Everclear, if you were following the method. So you’ve got an extra 150mL of Everclear for your dissolved agent substrate, that you don’t really need. I suppose you were thinking that you wanted a flat 2mg per milliliter, for easier rationing…rather than the 2.5mg per milliliter of the posted method…I don’t know the thought process there but it seems unnecessary to dilute the agent above and beyond what is already verified as working.
However it’s a moot point if you use the wrong Everclear.
Can’t really comment on the vaping, as I’ve never bothered trying to smoke or vape this powder. Too imprecise and risky. I certainly wouldn’t advise continuing to drink more and more of the liquid in one sitting. You should have felt something after an hour with the initial dose. Contact the vendor and complain.
By the way, I can only vouch for the 1:1 ratio of 018 to 073.
What happens when you opt to tilt your ratio heavily in favor of one or the other is beyond me.
My original batch is still going strong and I have recently had some remarkable experiences hovering around the 5mL liquid dose level, which following the original method works out to about 12.5 mg JWH. But this only after careful incremental testing beginning at 2mL, once a week, and ramping up each subsequent week in half-milliliter increments.
Sunday, 7. March 2010
i think if i can get it mixed I’ll be good. feeling it pretty good now @20mg. i take it all back. good researchchemicalz.
Monday, 8. March 2010
Why do I expect pooh’s next post to describe his visit to the hospital lol
Pooh, update, please!
Tuesday, 9. March 2010
There’s a good lesson here. The drink method is just as risky as the smoking method if you don’t use the proper solvent. How can you possibly know how much JWH you’ve truly consumed, if half your powder is swirling around in the mix? It wouldn’t take more than a few of the heavier crystals in the inadequately-prepped solution, if thoughtlessly or accidentally consumed, to tip one well over the 10, 15, 20mg threshold or beyond…
I would hope not to see any more of these half-assed experiments. Especially since all the solid info anyone would need to do this perfectly well and have a safe, great time is already typed plain as day on this very page.
But I must admit, it is good blog theatre.
Tuesday, 9. March 2010
For those of you using the jwh-018 by vaporizing, be very careful to use the proper dose. Not telling you to do that, its not for consumption
but to put this into perspective without a scale, the tip of a 1/32 inch screwdriver when scooped into the powder looks like way too little product. NOT! You should use a scale, because that small amount is actually going to have a very strong effect (so I am told, not saying that I have done this, that is not legal). Just trying to help. For those searching for fertilizer for their banzai trees, do a google search for the pure product. dont waste your time with k2 and the likes. Its much cheaper to get in the pure form (90.00 for two grams and free shipping, or one gram for 45.00 plus shipping)
Tuesday, 9. March 2010
I tried this jwh it was fuckin crazy it felt like i was trippin my heart rate increased and I had a crazy brain high i thought i was goin to die for a minute. I must have used to much but then again it is new to me. A friend of mine has a lot of it and doesnt know what to do with it because no one wants to try it. So he gave me some and me an my buddies tried it crazy experince!!!!!!
Wednesday, 10. March 2010
i gave myself an at home drug test to see if i would pass after smoking k2 for about a week. i couldn’t tell if the test was inconclusive or positive. i was confused until my brilliant little brother asked, “did you smoke it out of a pipe with weed resin in it?”
wow. i felt stupid. but i haven’t tried testing myself again since buying a new pipe and using it instead
…just a suggestion to anyone else out there who might need to pass a drug screen and is smoking the legal stuff to avoid a positive result!
Wednesday, 10. March 2010
maybe stupid question but where can i buy serenity now?
Wednesday, 10. March 2010
I have tried Spice.. A company from Kansas was raided with the stuff I bought. The company I purchased from disappeared also. I aquired 1000 mg of JWH-018. It’s fun but I’m not sure I will continue. A little goes…..well why repeat the applicable cliche.It will mess people up unless they really have a scale , sooner or later. A lot of people aren’t disciplined or they are careless at times. I’m not sure what to think about RC’s.
Wednesday, 10. March 2010
I think that they should use JWH in california to replace medical weed. If they did this it would be a positive and a plus for them chem. Its just unfortunate that people use it in an ignorant way and OD. I was ignorant myself in the early years. If they ban jwh 18 and 73, what about all the other JWH’s?? Hu-200 I think is banned but this is because its like 100 times potent then thc, that is on the dea’s website. I think if the vendors warned people of how potent the stuff is, they would have more respect and do a lot less.
JWH is like giving a noob driver an drag racer as their first vehicle. Most will crash and burn because they are inexperienced and think they are driving their grandma’s caddy.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
I find it interesting that people sit here & compare spice to marijuana. I’ve never seen anyone get so high on weed that they went to the hospital. I’ve never seen anyone on weed need to monitor their intake like spice. My son became addicted to spice over the past several months. He became recklass & started to compensate for anxiety & heart palpitations with OCD’s. So now his addiction includes prescription med’s to compensate for how screwed up spice made him. He’s in treatment now, but still think spice is the best thing that happened to him. Is that the road you want to travel?
Thursday, 11. March 2010
msshaw:
I’m sorry for your son’s troubles. But with all due respect, it seems you are blaming an inanimate object for the result of some poor choices made by a human being. Did Spice force itself into your son’s body? Did someone force him to smoke it at gunpoint?
Obviously people compare spice to marijuana, because the blend looks like marijuana, and the active chemical hits the same receptors in the brain. And there are thousands of people who can consume Spice, in moderation, or even in excess, without suffering the chronic dark spiral of addiction and health problems you say your son has.
Your son is just one person. Maybe there are some other people out there just like him, just as prone to fixate profusely on a substance until it breaks them down. But that’s not going to happen to most people. In fact, it’s not going to happen to the vast majority of people who use Spice or similar cannabinoid blends or pure cannabinoid chemicals.
Again, I’m sorry for your son, but your report of his downward spiral is, for this particular substance, the EXCEPTION…not the rule. This isn’t a hard drug AT ALL. It is nothing close to meth, heroin, crack…or even alcohol.
Tell me, how many people have died from “Spice addiction”? I’m waiting.
The only good point I can scrub up out of your fear-post is that blends like Spice should be avoided anyway, if one can readily obtain the pure cannabinoid and has the wits and simple materials to regulate and dose it with respect and precision.
Drugs are drugs, and people are people. Sometimes stupid people give good drugs a bad name.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
To overdose on THC you’d have to smoked 2pounds and it would have to be all in 1 hit. So smoke your brains you good.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
X1, I think it is possible for someone to die from JWH-018. Because it has been proven that JWH increases a humans heart rate. If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen, as I mentioned above with the elderly. I think JWH, spice, etc should be done in moderation to prevent the worst. I posted a link previously about a person that used 3 grams each day! 50 bucks a day! and when he got off, he suffered severe withdrawal symptoms. If anything, withdrawal should be done gradually. I know its possible for people to become addicted to this stuff because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly. Rats have died in lab reports from OD and humans can die as well from heart failure, heart attack, etc. People have suffered convulsions and seizures from this stuff which is very very serious.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
After reading this blog post, it made me think twice about JWH-018 and the rest. This link discusses the long term symptoms of taking JWH. Long term is defined here as less than 1 year. I would assume the symptoms would only get worse if taken over a year. This stuff is pretty serious in my opinion.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105601
Thursday, 11. March 2010
J:
Good lord, man. Let me respond.
“It has been proven that JWH increases a humans heart rate.”
-Yes. So does marijuana. So do many other things. So does caffeine.
“If the humans heart cannot handle the heartspeed, the worst could happen…”
-OK, Doctor Cardio. With fancy terms like ‘heartspeed’, I’ll assume you’re a trained cardiologist. Let’s agree that if someone has a weak heart, they shouldn’t do ANY drugs. Duh.
“I think JWH….should be done in moderation..”
-Yes. Wow. Shocker.
“I know its possible for people to become addicted…because the feeling reported is bliss when done properly.”
-If ‘bliss’ is the criteria for addiction, then we’re all hopeless addicts. One time I rode a roller coaster and felt bliss. Guess I’m addicted. Also, one time I had really great sex with this girl. You know what I felt? Bliss. Uh-oh. Better go to rehab.
“After reading this blog post blah blah blah…”
-I’ve read that thread before (and it’s not a blog, it’s a hugely visited forum).
You must be a very selective reader. What I find when I read that thread is a mix of people who use JWH/Spice stupidly, and people who understand the word moderation.
Here are some choice quotes from across the spectrum of that thread, with my comments after each:
“Swim liked the feeling from it so Swim used it every night after work(Swim works second shift) as a way to relax and get a good nights sleep. Into the second month swim began to notice that his tolerance was way up needing quite a bit of jwh018 to feel anything.”
-Stupid person was using daily as a sleep aid. This builds tolerance and dependence. Where’s the moderation?
“swim has been smoking blends and 018 for about 8 months heavily/daily now”
-Stupid. Oh my gosh, you abused a substance heavily and it gave you problems? Wow.
“Aren’t these the same symptoms as Cannabis withdrawal?”
-Haha. Somebody on the thread noticed it sounds like a bunch of hardcore potheads trying to quit pot. Go figure.
“yeah the rage started when swim bought a gram of pure 018 half way through the bag (he was drinking very heavily at the time also and hes not ment to be drinking, he cant control himself when he dose) of 018 he went nuts, and over the space a few week he completly wrecked a rented house and caused thousonds of euros worth of damage. he had been using smoking blends heavily around 2 to 3 grams a day bofore that.
he stoped drinking, the rage stayed but not as bad and he just became more and more high strung. he had moved back home because he was out on the street for what he had done to the rented house. it just went to the stage where swim would not leave the house, the only time he would is when he would fly off the handle to avoid doing something he would regret (flight or fight sort of thing) or to go get more smoke.
he became a real recluse, this recluse has happenend to swim before with benzo addiction but, so what ever that tells swiy.
there was no real stress involved bar the anxiety caused from 018 and blends. swims not driving, hes on a driving ban and is umemployed no kids or responsibility at all really. swim stopped smoking mj/hash when he started smoking 018 it took complete control of him. he had been smoking
mj/hash from he was boy. for around 15 years in all but never got rage from it, only when he was using mj/hash heavily and could not get any.”
-Now this person is a real fuck-up. Notice the part about the drinking, and the “benzo addiction”, and the years and years of chronic abuse. You can’t put anything down to JWH from this guy. This dude has lots of other issues. Chemically unbalanced and shouldn’t be doing ANY substances.
“shit swim forgot something, swim should of added he was also using cocaine and sniffing powders and from head shops which could of played a part in this, guess there are a lot of other factors that could of caused fits of rage. ivory wave was the most troublesome of them, gave swim psychosis and paranoia for about a week. theres a thread about it on here, the head shop where swim bought have taken off the shelf.”
-That’s from the same guy as the previous quote! GOOD LORD. This fool just dumps anything into his body he can find. I’m starting to get rage issues reading this moron’s posts.
“SWIM abused 018 & 073 for 3 months approx, getting through 5+ grams of each, very approx figures, not less.. Every evening , and weekend full abuse, then smoking during the day before/lunch at work. This was getting out of control. MJ is treated the same, cannbinoid more-ishness..”
-Abuse, abuse, abuse. I’m noticing a pattern where some people abuse the crap out of something well before they ever have any real physical problems. People are creating their own dependencies by immoderate behavior, and then reporting long-term negative effects as if surprised that there are consequences of abuse. But on balance these issues are in the same family as when someone heavily abuses reefer.
“To be honest You just described what swim went through with marijuana the first long time after he started smoking it.”
-Bingo. Which would make sense considering it lights up exactly the same part of your brain.
“6 mo. now — and common Asprin seems much more dangerous than JWH-018.No tolerance build-up, no sleep issues — nothing. SWIM’s PTSD seems to be in remission as well.”
-Interesting.
“There definately is a an addiction factor involved with daily abuse, mentally and slightly physically, but physically no worse than a crap cold. Not much fun, but nothing the average right minded SWIY couldnt handle.”
-Dear God, can it be? The Voice of Reason?
“Moderation and taking days off is key with this substance, at least in SWIMs experience.”
-YES. As with ANY SUBSTANCE IN THE WORLD.
“SWIM started out using match head amounts. They worked very well but after two weeks the dose needed to double and SWIM was doing it six times a day. After six months of smoking SWIM can use an a quarter sized amount and still not reach the desired affect. In six month SWIM smoked almost 15 grams of this shit. It got to the point where SWIM would wake up in the night smoke it.
Two days ago SWIM stopped because he realized he was severely addicted. In the first night SWIM experienced night sweats that had a very strong chemical odor to them. Appetite is nil. Restlessness is at an all time high. SWIM has zero appetite. SWIM can’t sleep. SWIM threw up the first night and the next morning when he quit. SWIM can honestly say this is worse than when he kicked his heroin habit (SWIM just snorted, SWIM prolly experienced 80% of the full heroin withdrawal).”
-This is the addictive personality type. Notice he’s already been around the block with heroin. Anybody using JWH six times a day has a problem in their head…it ain’t the JWH making them do it. You’re going to get sick off anything if you abuse it like that.
There’s a few more on the back end of the thread.
I noticed that in all those posts, nobody went to the hospital and nobody died. The worst, heaviest abusers had trouble sleeping, got night sweats, one guy had diarrhea, another guy puked.
Gee.
Scary.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
Just woke up this morning. I decided to try the Gonjah herbal blend last night. The one herbal blend that cost $122.00 for 7 grams. The packaging and the product are all first class, especially the vanilla aroma. The high is an intoxicating high. You are high, but you crash and burn after one or two hour of smoking. The after effect is a hang over type feeling. There is this terrible dry mouth and the feeling that I have drunk several cases of beer. I am slow and dazed. The rest of the stuff in my pipe is going to be dumped out. I have built a little tolerance from these cannabinoids after testing a few of the products. This stuff is not for the weak. It feels just like I have been high for a long time and my body movement is out of sync with my brain. I need a cup of coffee.
I do not like this after feeling of smoking this stuff. I feel drunk and slow. I don’t have an edge to anything in life. Do I want more? Hell no. I want to smoke right now and all I have is laced JWH-18 products. I wish I had a product free of chemicals with 100% certified organic herbs that can get me a mellow high without the crash and burn after effects. Something to make me feel refresh and alive in the morning (without THC). Not something that makes my body feel likes it has been on a drinking binge. When JWH-018 or any synthesized chemicals becomes illegal in the US and a punishable crime for not listing it in the ingredients what will these makers do? They will go out of business because they hadn’t taken the research time to spend their money on finding an all natural organic herbal blend that exceeds any synthesized chemicals. Did you know that 80% or more of the world pharmaceutical drugs were synthesized from plant material? It’s time to go back to the plant. I still feel drunk. Have a good day.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
Man, everyone wants to talk about overdosing on this stuff. I’m sorry, but that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I’m kind of new to this stuff, been smoking it for about a month (not constantly. I smoked it a couple of weeks ago and I’ve done it the last couple of days), but I’ve had no serious problems with it. I seriously was bored up where I’m staying and decided to have a smoking spree on this shit, see what it was like. I started smoking Sunday March 7th (?) and finished Wednesday March 10th. That’s yesterday, in case you didn’t know.
-Sunday night I smoked about two matchheads worth, and not even at once. I got pretty fucking high, even felt like I was tripping a bit. No panic attack, no anxiety. I felt good.
-Monday morning I woke up at approximately 6:00 am, took a shower and did my daily routine and started smoking at 6:30. I smoked again at 8:30 am. Then once again at 11:00 am. This was still with approximately a matchhead size amount, or a simple one-hitter pipe. I smoked again at 12:45 pm. No anxiety, just calm, but I feel like I’m tripping pretty hard. This is some strong, long lasting stuff and now I’m just trying to keep my high going. I smoked again at 2:30 pm then at 6:00pm and then again at 7:00 pm and 10:00 pm. I came down from practically an all day high at 11:00.
I had the same routine every day and when I finally came off today I felt not ill effects, no breathing problems, and despite some hazy memory was pretty good. I feel no addiction to it and though I definitely want to do it again, I’ll probably not smoke that much. Not because of ill effects, but because I don’t need that much. I can smoke once or twice in a day, with that matchhead size and I’m good for several hours. I wouldn’t make this an everyday thing either. Maybe once a week or every other week. I’ll probably smoke again either this weekend or next weekend. Why not smoke it everyday? Its not because of health issues or any of that. Its the fact that me and my friends will literally trip on this stuff. Like a small dose of shrooms or something, its weird. I’m not the type of person that wants to trip all day every day and I feel no physical or mental desire to do so. Its good in small doses every once in a while just to feel good.
Which leads me to my question. Have any of you guys tripped on this stuff? I’m not talking about hardcore hallucinating, but a very mellowed out kind of trip.
Thursday, 11. March 2010
Machinamaker, keep smoking JWH everyday with the same smoke schedule for 6 months and then stop cold turkey. You’ll be feenin like an addict!
Thursday, 11. March 2010
Willie:
Instead of whining that the JWH-product companies won’t get off their duffs and give you the magical perfect natural organic non-chemical herbal blend that makes you happy, why don’t you get off your duff and create it yourself?
I can tell you from my experiences with clean 018 and 073 (not any stinking blend) that the negative drunken stupor you’re experiencing from that Gonjah crap is NOT the signature of JWH. There’s all sorts of other garbage in many of these blends, and that’s what’s making you feel all the hangover mess. If you stuck with the pure RC and dosed it correctly, you wouldn’t have all that grief.
MachinaMaker:
At about the 12.5mg level I have had definite psychedelic activity of a very pleasant and mild, but acutely noticeable variety. Pristine closed-eye visuals that I would characterize as cascading, luminescent liquid of all colors and color-blends, but most striking because of the glow, as if backlit with soft warm lamps…retained for brief duration with eyes open. Not really a psychological trip (which I think is a good thing), but this visual element was effortless and substantial. A nice bonus to cap a transcendent, heavy stone, to be sure.
It feels like there’s a lot of bandwidth there, too. Like I could play around the 12 – 15mg range and have a perfectly safe yet deep swim. We’ll see.
Bearing in mind, this is through liquid ingestion. You say you are getting a mellow trip just from smoking? That’s impressive. Most smoke reports seem to be either the basic short stone….or WHOOPS PANIC ATTACK BECAUSE I WASN’T CAREFUL.