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JWH-018, Spice & Me

By John Clarke

The Spice smoking mixture range has been one of the most popular “herbal” smokes ever, and now it’s no suprise why.

To get an idea of just how popular these mixtures are, just take a look at this data from Google’s keyword tool:

That’s over 37,000 searches a month for these three search terms alone – Spice is definitely a customer favourite. I also get no less than 500 emails a day from Russia asking if I can ship it there by the kilo. So what’s behind it all?

This paper [PDF; 246 kB] has some interesting things to say. It turns out that the Spice blends all contain JWH-018 as well as two compounds based on CP 47497 – all of them synthetic cannabinoids. These are man made chemicals designed to tickle the same receptors as THC, the active compound in cannabis, so it’s no wonder these smoking mixtures are so powerful. The difference in potency between the Spice blends appears to be accounted for by increasing levels of these CP 47497 homologues.

jwh-018

Since this discovery, Spice has been banned in several countries, including Austria and Germany. The BBC also reported on it and had the following to say:

The UK drugs regulator, the Medicine and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), is understood to have identified JWH018 in products available in the UK. It is currently in order to determine whether or not it should be classified as a medicinal product – which would mean it should only be available from a doctor.

The UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the government on whether a drug should be made illegal, is also aware of the substance, and is investigating it.

The Spice manufacturers make no mention of these synthetics on their packaging, so a lot of herb-enthusiasts feel somewhat betrayed. Rightly so, I suppose – not being told just what you’re smoking exactly. People have the choice to put things in their body and some Spice smokers might make a different decision if they had all the facts in hand.

But, why?

The typical reaction to this news seems to be the disgust about putting any of these “unsafe” man-made compounds into their body, as though mother nature was some kind of safety net. “These plants have thousands of years of safe use”, they say! But let’s take a closer look…

Take Kratom, for instance. Kratom contains a powerful compound called mitragynine, which acts upon the opioid receptors; the same targets for opium and its derivatives. One alkaloid in kratom, although present in much smaller quantities, is 7-hydroxymitragynine, which is apparently 17x more potent than morphine! While I wouldn’t call this plant harmful, compared to other drugs like cocaine and heroin, it wouldn’t say it was harmless either. The opioid receptors are a dangerous set of receptors to be messing with – the mu subtype responsible for the classic euphoria that accompanies opiate use also stops you breathing if you tickle them too much. Opiates are also addictive, just like kratom can be if you take too much. While this plant may have seen thousands of years of responsible, moderate use, this is no reassurance at all towards its safety.

Now days, people generally don’t toil in the field every day that Newton sends – we have more free time and money to spend than ever before. We can now afford to use large quantities of kratom every day, as well as other entheogens from around the world, but we don’t have any information about this level of exposure to kratom itself or in combination with other stuff. For all we know, taking a mixture of kratom and Salvia divinorum daily could make your eyeballs explode after day 300, or chronic kratom use might give you some kind of evil superpower. Looking at paracetamol as a rather boring example, if you take the odd one every now and then, you’ll be fine, but if you take 8 pills a day every day for a year, you’ll likely end up with some serious condition. There’s also the fact that modern chemistry can create powerful extracts of these entheogens. Who’s to say they’re safe, just because they come from a plant? And what about any other drugs we might be on? Being on a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor like Prozac for depression isn’t uncommon in today’s society – combine them with the “perfectly safe” Banisteriopsis caapi vine, itself a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and you have a potentially fatal combination of drugs in your system. I bet there are many more contraindications we haven’t even considered.

What about plants like cannabis and tobacco? They’ve also been used responsibly for thousands of years, but it’s only when so many people start to take these things that we realised “Actually, smoking is bad for us”. Besides, our current medical knowledge means we’ve only recently been able to diagnose these kind of things. I’m not sure I want to trust any data from a period when epilepsy might have been down to a demonic possession. How many adverse health effects could we identify in these ancient entheogen users based on what we know today?

So, while we can be uncertain of the long term effects on health of JWH-018 and friends, it seems we can’t actually be certain about the safety of most of the things we happily consume. Yes, they may turn out to be super toxic (although probably not, if they’re given to lab rats), but at least they only act on your cannabinoid receptors. Kratom tends to be prepared as a tea – once you’ve drunk it, you’ve drunk it. If you’ve taken too much, you’ll realise when its already in your blood. It would be much harder to overdose on these synthetics due to the speed at which they get in your system – if you’re too stoned, you won’t want to smoke any more, never mind being physically able to. The cannabinoid receptors they target are also much safter than the opioid targets of kratom. Cannabinoid receptors seem play a modulatory role, rather than being majorly important, so messing with them doesn’t have as drastic an effect. Smoking too much might make you feel a bit sick and dizzy for a while, but you certainly won’t stop breathing.

In all, I think Spice is in the wrong for not making this clear in the first place, but then I’m not suprised they didn’t want to list these compounds in the current political climate. Maybe when the government realises that it is our right to put things into our own bodies, listing these ingredients wouldn’t be an issue.

Even with this new information however, I’ll still be using the stuff. It’s great!.

465 Responses to JWH-018, Spice & Me

  1. Bama420 says:

    Robert, You are one of the first that has the sense to use this product right. I am terminally ill, I can use this or of course I can get any prescription I want including Dilota, Morphine injections, Demerol, Methadone, etc., i choose to not take narcotics due to a clinical addiction since age 12. If used properly, this medicine beats them all!

  2. lost180 says:

    i was a heavy canibus user for years due to recent events i have made the switch to “spice”, i liked it at first its gave me a good buzz, as time went on i started noticeing different things about my self, i was in a constant paraniod state with high anxiety, about an hour or two later i get extremly exhausted and pass out, my sleeping habbits are out of control. my heart races and on some ocations my vision gets blurd. i fear that these syptoms will eventually turn perminant, but for some reason i cant bring myself to stop using it. is there at a strong spice with no side effects?

  3. Sane? says:

    I read many of the posts here and for some reason felt the need to respond (probably because people are going to be mislead left and right). JWH-018 is pretty much completely safe (as safe as smoking can be for you). Toxicology tests have been run on it and they all came up negative for anything really bad, it doesn’t even contribute to cancer growth (too bad i can’t say the same for cigarettes..google it if you don’t believe me). For the people who have had bad experiences on it I can only say a few things. They are either lying or had no idea what they were doing/buying. Most likely these are the same people who drink too much alcohol and end up being rushed to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. These are the people who can’t even handle smoking simple marijuana, get high, spazz out, then spend their free time posting on forums about the evils of marijuana. These people are, in short and sad to say, retards. The people who don’t fall into those two categories are unfortunate victims of shoddy products. There are many counterfeit brands of incense and as well as plain out inferior products made by people who just want to make buck (not all, but some). The last remaining reason I can offer for people who have bad experiences on it is maybe it was an allergic reaction to something in it. I’m allergic to penicillin so I know if I ever need antibiotics I should make sure my doctor knows my allergy. I don’t go flaming it on forums every chance I get because it will harm ME. Do research into something before you just start putting things you know nothing about into your body. It doesn’t take very long and will save you from looking like the world’s biggest idiot on idiot planet during “Idiots Get In Free Day”. I’ve tried one of these products (Spice) and can say nothing bad has happened to me. The one time I smoked too much I realized it instantly, because I was completely zoned out, and you know what I did? I put the bowl down and went to sleep. When I woke up the next morning I felt fine. No need to be rushed to the hospital, wasn’t falling all over the place puking or making a jackass out of myself…nothing. In fact, I HAVE had one too many drinks in my past, to which I attribute to being a young imbecile, and felt worse then then I’ve ever felt on anything else. Seriously, I’d rather be sick with the flu than be drunk.
    Well before I get more off topic than I am now, I offer this advice..
    1. Do research, learn about what you’re putting in your body. Don’t be a guinea pig.

    2. As with anything fun, Use in moderation. Even too much exercise is bad for you.

    3. Just because you had a bad experience on something doesn’t mean other people will. Sharing your experience is fine, but you shouldn’t try to make people believe what happened to you will happen to them. When they do it anyway (which they will) and nothing happens, you will only look stupid.

  4. dave says:

    @ sane , I had a peanut butter sandwich this morning , nothing happened to me either !

  5. wondering sun says:

    so on this spice stuff i randomly toke it because my man is having a hard time not being able to smoke weed so he of course went to spice when he needed to every once in a while i will indulge and nothing happens well except its an upper to me unlike to him its a way to fall asleep for me its a way to get the house clean and go for a walk if i smoke it it wakes me right up no paranoia at all red eyes sometimes and dehydration keep hydrated it will keep the tripps away i noticed once i smoked maybe 2 hits and i got extreamly light headed and weak i thought it might be from not eating yet that morning but i never eat that early any way.. i got heart palpations very dizzy i hurred upsairs got a cup of watter and sipped it and layed on my bed for a while i felt like i was spinning once i layed down and i had to focus on breathing in my mouth out my nose slow and steady i seriously thought i was going to die but i have tripped before so i just tried to stay calm and focused i texted my man while at work just to let him know what happed incase he found me dead when he got home lol when i felt i could stand for a moment i got up hid every thing and fell right back down stated feeling worse my mind was racing and i just felt insanely terrible i was shaking i was so terrified i just thought this is it im going to die but other than that a few times oh and if you mix it with alcohol you will have a bad trip like this including vomiting maybe idk but he did and it was terrible …but other than that its fine just a wierd uppers to me and suppresses appetite i would like to know if any one knows how long it stays in the system and if they have testing for it … and ect on that thank you

  6. wondering sun says:

    oh yeah after i felt a little better i seemed like minutes after but it was about a hour of a trip i jumped in the shower oh my god it was the best thing that had ever happed to me i swear it i stayed in there for ever i hat hot showers but i couldent get enough of the heat and even when it got frezzing loved it it was wierd but if you trip sit in the shower with a bath beneth you if you promise not to be to fucked to stand with out falling or if you need to sit in it for i while !

  7. Nemo says:

    Just yesterday I decide to try the spice, because some couple told me about it. I have never tried drugs, the only thing I do is smoke regular cigarettes, not even alcohol. Anyways, I felt tempted since everybody says getting high is the best thing ever, blah, blah , blah. Since the spice is legal I decided to give it a shot. So I tried it, I took two puffs out of that thing, and held it, OMG. This is so far the most Horrible, scariest, and craziest experience I have ever had in my entire life, and I think I will ever have. I got so ditzy, I feel like I was spinning, I couldn’t feel my body, I felt in total anesthesia, therefore it was hard for me to even walk, … When I got in my bedroom , I started throwing up, every time I would move I threw up, so I decide to just lay on the floor next to all that vomit. I finally decided to go to bed, cause I wanted to get out of it, make it go away, I was panicking so bad, I was so scared that would never wake up out of it. I kept my eyes closed almost all the time because if i tried ton open them I would feel like a shock in my entire body especially my head. Besides I couldn’t focus worth a shit, everything was blurry. For real people, this has been a very bad experience for me, I will never ever do any shit like that. Just because someone says is good, it doesn’t mean it is. This was my first and last time I try any drugs. Still today I don’t feel myself being me, is like I am not completely here yet. I still feel kind of sick, and I can’t move my eyes fast. This thing might be good for others but is bad for me, very bad.

  8. forrest says:

    i have tryed it one time and i dont like it at all i got a messave head ake and onece i did it i od. when i woke up i was in the hospitle and they tell me i have a 50% chance to live. so do what right and quit……. you and both sakes

  9. Bama420 says:

    Well put, YOU OD’ed! You bought crap from a cruddy supplier. You know, poison will make you high in moderations. I have tried to make these bad effects happen to me by researching for 6 months, it just does not happen, but I buy from a reliable source and what happened to you is the fact that it was not purified correctly. Why, because that is what costs the RC suppliers money is to purify it correctly. All you did was trigger your anxiety that you were born with, sometimes it is hard to see the( forrest) because of all the damn trees. Sorry you got poisoned my friend. I have had 3 heart attacks and am terminally ill, but no doctor has ever said that I have a certain % chance of living, even when I was on life support for 2 months due to Skydiving accident. All this was way before trying any blends. So I used extreme precaution when using a new source. My blood pressure has never gone up, if anything it stabilizes it. I am a diabetic and now take half the insulin that I used to take. I now have back the appetite that I lost due to damage to digestive system in accident. Good medicine for me is poison for you, doubt it. I just don’t mess with poison like you did. Again, purchase from a friend that you can trust! I am not trying to attack you and I will pray for your well being, but I just don’t want to see anything bad happen to you. You are probably best off without it instead of risking and buying from someone you don’t know. God Bless, Bama

  10. D3 says:

    Time for me to post again-
    I was a Synchronium frequent poster and even shared my own recipes-go look them up and see I was an RC aficionado for awhile.
    Smoking only small amounts of herb blend (but at 55 mg/gram) I used quite often on days off and some evenings too.
    I have had the panic attacks about 1 out of every 6 times that I smoked it. It had JWH 18,073,081 and 250. I also used K2 summit blends and some Black Mamba before I successfully made my own blend.
    I have had several extremely bad trips that I went to hospital once when drinking also. The effects were anxiety, slow breathing, difficulties in visual focusing, chest tightness, strong awareness of heart beating, mild insomnia, and my oxygen levels go below 90 at nite so I must use an oxygen machine wearing a tube that goes up both nostrils- how fun !!
    Don’t use this stuff. I’m glad it is outlawed in my state. I will never try it again.
    But many friends of mine are just fine. Also euphoria tincture that is out is also not reccomended. They should have made weed legal.
    Viva la RC’s- Not!!

  11. TheMystic says:

    I am waiting on a “herbal incense kit” which comes with everything needed to make your own incense equal to K2 summit. I will write back and let you all know how it goes once I make a batch.

  12. MacTownShores says:

    I’ve been smoking different herbal incense blends now every day for about 2 and a half to three months now. When I smoke I feel good and I’ve had the fast heartbeat, shaking, scary as hell trip about twice. Both when I smoked a blend called Scooby Snax. Don’t get me wrong I still smoke the stuff, you just can’t over do it and be stupid about it. My lungs have felt a bit of wear-and-tear but for the most part I feel the same. Still, be very wary of this stuff.

  13. RandomDude says:

    I’m an avid Mari smoker…
    I tried a little less than half a blunt of this stuf…
    needless to say it wasnt a high. It was a full blown trip.
    A very bad one at that. The feeling, thoughts, everything was horrible.

    Sticking straight to bud..and all your people backing it up
    are just pussy’s for not smoking weed. Who cares if your job drugs test’s? Do you really want to work for a company that spies on your personal life? Spice is bad for you, its a terrible chemical. Just go get your medical card or get Marinol. Spice is terrible shit.

  14. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    To Dave and Guy with advice…Thanks for your stories. They have really helped me out!
    First off, I used to be an avid smoker of Marijuana. I smoked marijuana for about the last 10 years or so (multiple times a day). Last year I was in California and was made aware of spice. So I looked on the internet for side effects or anything bad and couldn’t find a thing(at that time). So I took it up. For about 8 months or so I was smoking Marijuana several times a day and smoking spice on occasion. (2-3 times a week). Now I’ve been as high as u can get from pot, and even thought I was as high as I could get from spice. (spice got me higher and even on the verge of tripping).
    So about two weeks ago I quit smoking pot to get a job and I continued smoking spice. A week into it (last week 11-14-10) me and my buddy scraped our bowl to smoke the resin. Worst mistake I’ve EVER made. We smoked some Mr nice guy earlier that day and the effects were wearing off so we wanted to get high again. I took 2 hits off of the resin. Now Ive smoked the resin multiple times as well, but this time was different. At first it was like a normal really hard trippy buzz, but about a half hour into it I thought I was going to die! I was trying to lay down and watch tv and all the sudden my hands, feet, and nose started freezing. I kept reminding myself to breathe, and it just felt like my body was shutting down. I thought it was the end! I jumped into the shower to try to warm up and found myself doing jumping jacks in the shower to try to get my blood flowing. Lucky for me it worked a little cuz I was a sec from calling 911 without health insurance. Afterwards I was still all f’d up, but figured if I could just go to sleep I would be better in the morning. Well, its been a week now, and everyday so far, I have had an episode of my heart racing, lightheadedness follwed by sweating and cold chills and ear ringing. I have noticed they are less intense with every passing day but it still scares the shit out of me. I quit using after that day and plan on NEVER smoking it ever again. I am a physically fit 28 yr old guy that was positive it wouldn’t happen to me (and even still have friends that think the same thing). I am just glad to hear that hopefully I will keep getting better and hopefully this shit will go away! and that my story will help somebody too!
    Ps. I wonder if like Xanax or somethin like that might help with the rapid heartbeat and not being able to sleep?

  15. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    I have also noticed that a bottle of water kinda helps when the symptoms flair up. I also take fish oil. Wished they would just legalize pot so we aren’t the test subjects for a potentially fatal drug!

  16. dave says:

    yup , it gets better ! drug induced panic disorder ,its all in your mind bro . the worst that can happen has already happened . lasted a good six months , but over a year on I’m 110% ,just never touching spice (or weed) again , my brain had had enough .
    i’m sure its fine for some , like weed was for me for 20 years , but fucked something up big time in my brain chemistry !
    i don’t want to ruin the party (cus i hated people like me !) just want to show the people who’ve had a bad one that theres light at the end of the tunnel , peace.

  17. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Thanks again Dave…and now 10 days later, I feel about 90%! I was worried it was going to last forever…Still get the heart racing a little, but its 90% better already and I can def see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thank GOD!!!

  18. budnik says:

    Consider yourself lucky, it’s been almost 2 months since I smoked one hit of this stuff (see my previous posts) and I am still messed up with no real indication of getting any better. Now I have horrible insomnia as well, I’m lucky if I get 3 hours of sleep a night. I’ve been to another doctor and a neurologist and they have no idea what to do, one of them prescribed seroquel for sleeping which I read up on and it’s an anti-psychotic med so I’m like wtf? Had blood tests done, all came back fine. I still feel half stoned all the time which may sound like “fun” to some people but it sure as hell isn’t for me. Not sure how much longer this will continue or I can deal with it I just can’t believe it’s still going on.

  19. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    I am positive you will get over it…I honestly think it is all in your head. Its a psychy thing. I have a friend that doesn’t smoke at all and he gets panic attacks all the time. He described them to me and it sounds like the exact same thing as what I was going through. He says xanax gets rid of it immediately after taking. Now being as f’d up as I was, I didn’t want to put ANYTHING in my body cuz I was afraid it might do more damage, but last night I hit some MJ for the first time since, and it brought some of it back right away and then mellowed me back out completely…and it honestly feels like it balanced me back out where I was before I got all f’d up. You have to fight it with your brain if that makes any since at all. Just hang in there and try not to even think about it. I know its hard, but you CAN do it! I wish you the best and will keep you and everyone else in my prayers!

  20. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    And by MJ I mean Marijuana of course. I won’t smoke spice EVER again!

  21. Nick says:

    I am knowledgeable enough to scrutinize a peer-reviewed, published scientific article, and I am now a professional lawyer, but I was stupid enough to smoke the pure JWH-018. My reasoning? It was legal. I cannot, for the life of me, tell you how stupid I was for making the decision to smoke it. This is a warning to anyone who will listen:
    THROW THIS STUFF AWAY, IT IS HARMFUL FOR YOU AND YOU WILL SUFFER HORRIBLE WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME FROM IT.

    I started by smoking the blends. Spice Gold, Spice. Quickly, the 3g per week tolerance built up and the 1 pack a week started to only last me half a week. It wasn’t before long I’d search forums like this and find out, hey, you can get the active ingredient online for cheaper.

    Dosage issues aside, I started out at 2-3 mg. The tolerance gradient is steep. Quickly, it turned into 5-10 mg doses. Then, more. Then, more. At the end of 13 weeks, I was smoking 3 grams of JWH-018 PER WEEK, pure. I stopped when I looked into my cabinet one day and saw ALL of the Fedex envelopes there from the JWH supplier and realized how much I had exactly gone through. I panicked and tossed out everything — there was a little voice inside me that said, “You are in quick sand, if you don’t stop now, you’re done.”

    I chose to live. I tossed out my smoking apparatus with such conviction I was shaking with anger. The withdrawals started pretty much the next day. Immediately, I could tell there was some sense of agitation. I knew it would get worse, having sometimes gone without some pure JWH for a day or two and realizing that literally it would kill my appetite and sleep for that break.

    The next day I didn’t eat at all and it was 9pm before I realized I felt hungry. I had a strong craving for buffalo wings. As soon as I would put one in my mouth however, I’d have the sensation that I’d had eaten too much and that I needed to stop or I’d throw up. As soon as the chicken was back on the plate, the hunger would re-emerge. This appetite-cycle IS the exact withdrawal symptom associated with the appetite loss and it adds to the overall agitation.

    As for the sleeplessness, it was immediate. For one thing, JWH would definitely cue my sleepiness and hunger. Without it, I wasn’t sleeping AT ALL. Not even one wink. I would feel incredibly tired and just lie there with my eyes closed. I even found myself (humiliating) begging to a God I could have sworn I told other people I didn’t believe in before. I was afraid to take anything harder than a Tylenol PM to fall asleep, which helped somewhat. The problem was, the insomnia was there UNLESS I took the Tylenol PM. The Tylenol PM, on top of everything else, would add to morning drowsiness. So I had to stop. Again, all this stuff adds to your withdrawal agony.

    Now, the other symptoms that are everpresent:
    -Internal “agony” or “unrest” ; a constant fidgety feeling
    -Your head feels like it’s stuffy from studying 13 hours straight…without studying 13 hours straight
    -Feeling of disassociation
    -Nausea
    -Anxiety
    -Rapid Heartrate
    -Moodiness/Irritability
    -When I got angry one time, it was more than I’d ever been in my life and literally my face turned plum red, I started profusely sweating, I started seeing black spots and my hands got numb. I was in shock.
    -Tachycardia (I know this, but most won’t) – Very dangerous!

    It is now 6 days later and the symptoms have not gotten better although appearing to wave in and out. I have tried doing several things to help myself:

    -Listening to Binaural Beats (look this term up)
    -Exercising (cardio cardio cardio … listen SWEAT whatever is in you OUT)
    -Lots of fluids, particularly a bottle of mineral water a day and some pure pomegranate juice (heavy antioxidant)
    -Muscle Milk Protein Shakes to help me when I couldn’t eat anything. This is a small drink, somewhat tasty, and very easy to down in a couple gulps.
    -Daily multivitamins along with some crackers so I wouldn’t throw up from it (it can do that to you on empty stomach)

    I strayed from 5-HTP, a supplement sometimes used for marijuana withdrawal, but being that we don’t know what JWH has done to us, I wasn’t about to make the SAME MISTAKE TWICE!

    I am an otherwise very healthy 28 year old man. I regularly go to the gym (almost religiously). There is absolutely no reason that I should be feeling this way. I feel so strongly about wanting to educate people about this drug, but being that I see it EVERYWHERE already, I am really concerned.

    I might go to Gov. Chris Christie and be at the forefront to putting some of these JWH manufacturers in jail. This product is being marketed as a safe/legal pot alternative. Regardless of their illusory disclaimer language, you can’t sell a powder in America that has no other use for it than for people to smoke it, in various forms, with notations on your cite that it’s been banned in some States, without knowing that what you’re selling is criminal.

    I don’t want to get into the constitutionality of it. Please just take my warning and that of others. THROW THIS SHIT OUT, TODAY! NOW! THROW IT THE FUCK OUT!

  22. TRY STOPPING AND SEEING IF YOU HAVE WITHDRAWAL, THEN TALK says:

    Okay, this is Nick, the lawyer again. I actually scrolled up and read some of the stories here. It appears people have ACTUALLY fingered the right diagnosis: this is a drug induced anxiety disorder. But first, let me mention, to the naysayers: walk a mile in someone’s shoes before you preach. STOP SMOKING, wait a day or two, and tell me how you sleep. Tell me how you eat. You’ll know then why you were wrong.

    Anxiety disorders are caused by CHEMICAL IMBALANCES. This is NOT a benign diagnosis. As a Neuroscience major, I will tell you that scientists have relatively no clue as to what exactly can cause a wide variety of anxiety disorders. The worst part is that all of our metabolisms are different as well, so there’s no telling that if my anxiety disorder is this severe how someone else’s may be. Again, I’m 28, extremely healthy (you can see my muscles all over my body and I go to the gym like zealot, run 1 hour each day), and the WITHDRAWAL has FLOORED me.

    Here, we know what has induced it. The good news is, although we are likely to feel these symptoms for a few months before they completely disappear, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    Dear webmaster, I am not a regular user of this site, but I think it’s time you made a new page with a better heading with information for people based on the findings here. I would be happy to help you if it is a time issue because I feel it is a moral imperative for people to KNOW ABOUT THESE CB1 and CB2 AGONISTS and THEIR HARM.

    Indeed, I had seen this link during my preliminary JWH research but skimmed over it because the heading wasn’t attractive or didn’t seem to catch my eye. If people see the warnings, they’ll think twice: “Hey, no one ever says THAT about pot.”

    I’d like to explain to everyone that this anxiety disorder will last until your brain essentially re-balances. For a while now, you’ve been using a synthetic substance to induce (1) appetite, (2) sleep, and (3) have altered your mood to an elated state via an artificial chemical. You body is readjusting to these 3 things.

    There are several ways to treat anxiety. I highly recommend staying away from the pharmaceuticals like Xanax or Seroquel (as mentioned above). These are synthetic chemicals with potential side effects that may worsen your situation. Seroquel is used to treat schizophrenia as well, do you want to put THAT in your body?

    Opt instead for the following:
    -Herbal Teas that say they relax you: (Chamomile, Valerian Root, etc.)
    – HTP-5, a supplement you can buy in convenience stores.
    -Magnesium (said to reduce anxiety)
    -Valerian Root Extract (this smells nasty and comes in pill form. If you eat it on an empty stomach, it may cause you a bit of an upset stomach) — try to use this as sparingly as possible, almost like a last ditch nudge for the worst of times.
    -Meditating (can’t tell you how much this helps — it’s not easy to learn — check out this one as you lie down in a dark room: http://www.archive.org/details/MCullenBodyScanMeditation
    -Binaural Beats — these ACTUALLY work…they are tones generated at a certain frequency that play in one ear through headphones while a relaxing sound (like ocean waves) plays on the other. They have several with different effects. If you have an iPhone, get the “Brain Wave” (23 Beats Binaural Program) app.
    -Exercise (CARDIO, CARDIO, CARDIO). You cannot take this WITHDRAWAL SITTING DOWN. YOU HAVE TO FIGHT IT!
    -taking advantage of those “up” moments (and you will have them if you use the techniques above) to feel REALLY good (savor it 100%)
    -Massage if you can get one
    -breathing exercises
    -petting your fave animal
    -hugs

    Honestly, you just need some TLC and you will be fine in 2-3 months. It’s going to be a very, very difficult journey. It’s not “ALL IN YOUR HEAD”. For years, this has been the weed mythology — that there’s no withdrawal because of zero physiological symptoms. As a Neuroscience major, I am going to tell you that’s horse shit. Physiological symptoms INCLUDE changes in brain chemistry. As a result of not smoking pot, you induce this very withdrawal here but to a MUCH, MUCH lesser extent.

    Without a doubt, this stuff can inevitably kill someone. At this point, I have no doubt in mind that it is potentially lethal.

    DO NOT SMOKE THIS STUFF. IT IS NO WAY WORTH IT.

    I hope what I have said above will help people. At the same time, I am going to come back here and update over the next few days and let people know everything I am feeling. I will try to keep a diary of my day with the hours so people can get a general feeling of what this feels like.

    Ignorance is not bliss, it can mean death. Webmaster, you will do humanity a large favor if you help spread this information better. You happen to be the ONLY resource where I found help. I’ve even contacted ALL of the scientists in the peer reviewed articles. The ones that got back to me are getting back in touch with their subjects now to see how they’re doing and will get back to me.

    Good luck to everyone. One final thing, someone here said something brilliant and I want to repeat it:

    “You have all the drugs you need right in your skull already, tap them.”

  23. dave says:

    well said nick !

  24. budnik says:

    Now that I read your post Nick, I’m wondering if I’m getting withdrawls from not smoking weed (natural weed) along with whatever is happening from smoking the “herbal incense”. I have been smoking regular weed for a while, I haven’t been a daily user for at least 6-7 years but I would still smoke on the weekend pretty much every weekend, but only a few hits off a one-hitter at that. But, I never had any of the symptomns I’m having now prior to smoking that herbal incense. The worst thing for me is the feeling of being partially stoned and having my mind feel kind of cloudy/confused all the time. I hate to even go out of the house because it makes it worse. Going to the mall or grocery story – it’s bad. I try to be/act normal at work but it’s tough. I can’t understand how it could take so long to at least subside somewhat. If I could feel better even a little bit once a while at least it would give me hope that eventually it will go away. From the research I’ve done online I’m thinking that there may have been some salvia or god knows what else mixed in with the herbal incense, unfortunatley I threw the bag out so I’ll never know. I’m not getting all the symptoms that you and other people are describing, for example I am eating/get hungry normally and I don’t get panic attacks. I am very worried about what symptoms I am having because I sure as hell don’t want to feel like this forever. The insomnia is horrible as well, which I never used to have. I totally agree with you, I don’t want to take any other meds as who knows what will happen with other side effects but when I’ve gotten barely 2-3 hours sleep 4-5 nights in a row I’m to the point where I just say f*** it and take a pill. I’ve read about every post I can find on that seroquel stuff and yeah the side effects can be bad but for sleep it’s taken in very low doses (25 mg) and it knocks me out for 7-8 hours. On a side note now that I’ve read info online about insomnia I am amazed at how many people have major problems with this. I too work out like crazy with weights (at least prior to what’s been happening the last 7 weeks) but as you know without sleep that is very difficult at best. I don’t know it just feels like my mind is not right, I still have the very sensitive hearing as well. It’s weird when I’m tired lying on the couch watching tv I will kind of fade out for a few minutes then it feels like my mind kind of “snap resets” and I will wake up and not be tired anymore. What fun.

  25. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Nick….I don’t doubt you know what you are talking about when it comes to the withdrawl. What I am saying, is that Me and a few others on here have overdosed on it…I’m pretty sure it is two totally different experiences. Regardless, I think everyone will recover 100% from either, as long as you don’t smoke the SHIT ever again!

  26. you have to admit, the stuff IS a little scary says:

    we’ll after reading through some of this, I figured I would share my own experience with this drug.

    the first time I used serenity now, I smoked the same amount as if it were low grade marijuana due to my ignorance of the product. At first I was like “man this is GOOD shit” but then I noticed that my heart was pounding. I tried to ignore it as I have gotten this same sensation from large amount of marijuana, but it just got worse and worse. My chest began to hurt and then I started to panic. “am I going to have a heart attack?’ I asked myself. other people were home, but unaware that I had just smoked. I began to feel faint, so I sat on the couch right next to them and pretended to watch t.v….the logic was that if I passed out from a heart attack, they would at least witness it and call 911. this feeling came and went in waves for about twenty minutes, then once it had calmed down the experience was actually enjoyable.

    I ended up trying more later, only this time a much lower dose. it did seem to increase my heart rate a little, but i never felt the panic like before. Due to my having to pass a drug test for work, I decided to buy more and use it in extreme moderation…thats when the news came that the government is going to ban the drug. still high on serenity, I made an impulse decision to run to the head shop and buy 150 dollars worth(the amount you have to buy from them to get a discount on it) and I continued smoking about half a bowl of it 2-4 times a day all this week.

    other than the rapid heartbeat that i sometimes experience while using it, I’ve notice some other symptoms that are quite disturbing when NOT high on it. These are mainly heart palpitations, pain in the left side of my chest/back, and an overall strage, hard to describe feeling in my head. almost like light headedness but there seems to be a little more to it than that.

    I’m having a hard time distinguising this from withdrawel symptoms or panic type symptoms related to use of the drug. if I smoke a very small amount of the drug the symptoms seem to go away almost instantly, but upon taking a few more hits i get the heart palpitations again, though it sometimes seems a lot milder when I’m actually high on the drug whereas now it seems worse in the mornings when I wake up after using it the night before.

    I’d also like to note that the drug is quite pleasant when I’ve been drinking and is very hard for me to differentiate from a marijuana high.

    now the question is what do i do with the other 15 grams of the shit? i’ve already tried selling some but im having a hard time just breaking even on each bag. I already have about 4 grams open and honestly I don’t feel like its a good idea for me to smoke anymore than what i have already opened in my lifetime.

    I am very passionate about personal rights/freedoms, but this stuff is a little too scary for me(mainly the “withdrawel symptoms” I’ve been having) I don’t think it should be illegal, its just not something that I handle well personally. I feel like it should be regulated and openly sold for smoking, this way they could suggest dosing on the package rather than leaving it up to the user to “abuse” the drug. of course this is a perfect world and once they make this stuff illegal, in reality it will never, ever not a chance in hell be “FDA approved”.

    I am proud to be an American, but our government(and pretty much every other government) sure does like to fuck everything up for everyone but themselves.

  27. Nick says:

    To the webmaster – please keep my anonymity if anyone comes inquiring. I’m now a target.

  28. Nick says:

    So what I am hearing from #375 is that this very THING results from simply overdosing????

    #374 – yes, you are going through a combined withdrawal that is best described as that drug induced anxiety disorder. Anxiety patients don’t realize it, but they can undo their own anxiety from flaring up if they simply engage in some exercises. All schools of thought re: anxiety will tell you that one of the biggest symptoms is that you just can’t focus — your mind will wander.

    I want you to take that body scan meditation I linked and do yourself an honest one. I’m not a meditation/yoga guy, but since encountering this have bitten my tongue and THANKED GOD. I guarantee you that if you try it, within 2 min into you will be ABLE to relax again and you will thank the narrator, me, God, Gornesh, Buddha, or whomever else you deem necessary. But, def do it man. Drink some chamomile tea before. Really sit down like you’re imitating a guru or something, Indian-style, and breathe deep for 10 seconds. In, then out. Focus on nothing but your breathing. When your mind wanders, work it back. I have to tell you: you have a LOT of stress in your life. Part of the reason you smoked this stuff was that: be honest to yourself. You need to learn to manage your stress and reduce your anxiety. Most people do not understand this is how EVERY human is. No one is superman. People just don’t know because others aren’t open about their feelings, generally.

    We can lie and say this drug was recreational, but we were all escaping something. The withdrawal gets aggravated by those bad factors (remember, anything that adds to you anxiety will make this withdrawal 10x worse).

    Pretend you’re a fragile eggshell for the next 2 months because if your body’s shivering, internal unrest didn’t make that clear — you truly are. Take care of yourself bud. Please report back. More information will do us all a service.

    As for me, I managed to sleep after only posting what I did above. For me, it was an elation finally fingering this. I am so glad most of you have finally the tools you need to realize that life is precious. I know I do. I so do.

    Today, I woke up feeling neutral, truly neutral. Not groggy, not sad, not happy, just unremarkable. After about 30 min, the stuffy feeling in the head came back along with slight agitation. I immediately went to drink some liquids and that helped fix some of the agitation. NOTE: hunger/need to go to bathroom/thirst usually aggravates my dates subconsciously (girls don’t realize how catty they can get in those instances until they’re fed and all of a sudden the mood swings back — sorry ladies, it’s true). Therefore, it must be an anxiety inducing factor. This may be why some people simply report drinking water helps the symptoms. I’ve noticed, too, that my regular signals for hunger and thirst are messed up. I can go nearly the entire day without realizing I’m hungry before I physically feel nauseas from it.

    Everyone, read up. My journey will be posted here for you to learn from. THIS IS NOT POT, IT HAS POTENTIAL TO KILL YOU. PEOPLE HAVE REPORTED GRAND MAUL SEIZURES ABOVE AND LETHAL BLOOD OXYGEN LEVELS!

  29. you have to admit, the stuff IS a little scary says:

    on a side note, does anyone with other drug experience feel like this drug has more in common with cocaine than it does marijuana?

    cocaine would make me feel exactly the way i do now the day after i quit using, minus the heart symptoms. it could be possible that the same chemial overload that cause cocaine withdrawel is also responsible for withdrawel from jwh 018.

    i never thought I would find myself bashing a drug made to be so simular to marijuana, but the proof is in my experience. I’m having these symptoms after just a week of use.

    on another note, I dont feel like th epeople manufacturing these chemicals should be thrown in jail. what theyre doing is not a whole lot different than what most pharmacuetical companies are doing. when bayer created heroin, they sold it to the public knowing it had serious side effects(at least the people who make jwh 018 dont know what theside effects are, rather than knowing theyre terrible and still selling it). once it was made illegal, what did they do? change the formula! sound familiar?

  30. Nick says:

    378, that is precisely what the manufacturers are doing. The DEA has now banned K2/Spice in many states in the US. So, the manufacturers come out with a “new” K2 they can sell in the state. As of current, there are variants on these drugs: jwh-018, jwh-081, jwh-073, rc-3, rc-8, jwh-250, the CPs, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. They simply vary the formula yet have NO clue what it does to people. They profit, disclaim that it’s not for HUMAN —OR— ANIMAL CONSUMPTION, and then think that’s ok. In America, you can’t put toxic liquids in a Koolaid bottle then claim innocence based on the unknown consequences of that particular batch. Anyway, this discussion should center on the health effects of these drugs as that is more important. If the JWH manufacturers don’t want to go to jail, then they should read what I, a lawyer have to say:

    STOP RIGHT NOW OR I WILL PUT YOU IN JAIL WITH A MAXIMUM SENTENCE.

  31. Nick says:

    Guys, I want you to know it’s over. I received assurance that the ban will be countrywide next month by a representative of the DEA. I am making sure that all variants are outed too.

    HALLELUJAH I LOVE AMERICA!

  32. ocelot3208 says:

    well all i got to say is that if they legalized cannabis we wouldn’t even be having this discussion in fact America’s crime rate would plummet so if we stopped bickering about legal crap and worried about legalizing the real stuff it would probably already be legal and everyone would have a nice day 🙂

  33. Popa Spice says:

    I have been using on a daily basis since the middle of September. I smoke about 1 gram per day. I have only smoked 1 1/2 grams that was bought in a store. The rest I have made myself. I use Marshmallow Leaf, Damiana, Mullein and Mugwort in equal portions as a substrate. I use ever clear to dissolve the RC. I have used JWH-018 and 073. My blends have been in the 15 to 20 mg/1 g of substrate. Just a little over the 10mg/1g “Recommended Dose” when smoked on a substrate. I have not stopped smoking for any length of time. I have only had one bad time and I really can’t call it a bad time. It felt more like the first smoke of MJ after not smoking for awhile, a little paranoid. Again this was only one time in daily use since September. I do get a little testee when I haven’t had any in a while if I had some earlier in the day. I’m not testee if I wait till later in the day for my first smoke. This is really no different for me than with MJ. I, with the exception of the RC itself, know what is in my mix. Store bought, not so much. I also wonder if there could be some side effects from the herb material used in the substrate. It could also be a bad reaction to acetone. When I got my first sample, I used acetone and laced tobacco. It was good but made my hands wet and clammy/sticky. I am not going to bash anyone or anything on this board as I have not experienced the same things others have. I do know we are all different. I can’t drink much alcohol as it upsets my stomach, some don’t have that problem. Some can’t smoke MJ as it makes them fall asleep, etc. etc. As with MJ, we will never know what these RCs can and can’t do unless they are Independently researched. It is said that there may be a positive link with Alzheimer’s and RCs. I do know that I have been remembering things that I have not been able to recall for years. I had a traumatic head injury at 14, I am now 47 and can remember things pre accident. I also have chronic back and joint pain from years in the Army Infantry that is relieved by the use of MJ and these RCs. It would be nice if the Government, instead of banning these RCs as a Class 1, would find out, Independently, what these things can or can’t do…

  34. you have to admit, the stuff IS pretty scary says:

    that was exactly my point. the pharmacuetical companies are guilty of the same thing you’re accusing these research labs of. Morally anyways. maybe not legally the same but morally they’re just as wrong.

    personally I don’t have anything against them.

  35. Nick says:

    Popa Spice, you make a very good point. I will take your story with me. You deserve more. Thank you for serving our country. I have made it a firm point that the reason that I ended up in my situation (and why this drug is particularly dangerous) IS PRECISELY the current state of drug scheduling laws and guidelines.

    It is time the DEA re-examined its policies and politics and put people’s safety before economics. We don’t just have to talk about costs of health care: what about the laws that are killing us?

    If proper these are truly RESEARCH CHEMICALS (which they’re not), then let’s treat them as such: keep them out of reach of the general populace until further is known. People like you should be able to sign up for clinical trials.

  36. Nick says:

    Popa, one more thing, sir. Please stop using these drugs because, while I understand you may be deeming therapeutic feelings at the moment, reality may be something else.
    I highly suggest you stop for one day or two and witness the symptoms of withdrawal yourself. You will see they are severe. Then please come back and tell us if you did that and how you are feeling so we can be educated as to your experience as well. Thank you.

  37. Popa Spice says:

    Nick, I plan on doing just that. There is another small benefit that I have experienced, however it probably has more to do with the substrate than the RC, I cough up small tight balls of phlem. I have always had lung issues, hidden from the Army so I could serve, so I am cautious with what I smoke, yea stupid huh. Anyway, it does help as an expectorant but as I said its probably the herbs…

  38. TeenageSWIM says:

    Well guys I’m back. I have a short story to tell.

    I went to college and the blends were much readily available. Needless to say I started smoking a 1-1.5 grams every day of the blend. It’s one of the stronger blends, so I’m thinking it has somewhere between 60-80mg of JWH per gram.

    My buddy and I both smoked 3gs every day together for 6 weeks before he started getting sick. I was aware of the potential signs since I’ve posted on here previously so we started watching out.
    A week later I started becoming sick.

    I really don’t think I was smoking JWH-018 though, maybe one of its more devious counterparts, because I have been smoking a different blend which I know for a fact has JWH-018 in it and I didn’tget sick before (but I didn’t smoke as after, probably about every day with 2-5 days break in between, but sometimes I’d smoke every day for a week or two).

    Anyway the symptoms included:

    -Nausea especially in the morning, vomited once nothing but vile.
    -Loss of appetite unless smoking, but even then it’s gone away.
    -The high of the blend I started smoking at the school (the one that made me sick) it felt dirty. But eventually I got used to it and forgot about it, until later when I smoked my old blend at home.
    -Night sweats. And I don’t just mean like a little bit of sweat, I mean DRENCHED. This has happened about 4 times.
    -Diarrhea, gassy bloaty,

    Anyway, all I know is, there is a cannibinoid out there that makes me sick, and really fast too, we didn’t even smoke that frequently and I was getting sick without even abstaining from smoking, (so it wasn’t withdrawal yet). And there is another cannibinoid out there that I can smoke on a regular basis and be completely fine.

    But I’m not going to take that chance. The potential for abuse for these products are too strong for me (only with regular use, if I use it once every 2-3 days then it’s no big deal, but if I smoke once every day for just two days, I’m usually already hooked on a pattern and it’s hard to stop)
    I’m switching back to MJ, but I could see myself feeling like going for a trip and buying some blend once few months or so.

    I’m going on vacation soon for 10 days so that will keep me away from being too tempted to buy them. After just a few days of not smoking for me, I’m just not interested in it much anymore. It doesn’t take long, so by 10 days I shouldn’t even be thinking about it, (except for MJ).

    I feel sorry for Nick who smoked 3gs of pure JWH-018 in a week.. I can only imagine how horrible your withdrawals are. Hang in there man.
    I’m already upset by the occasional nausea that I’m getting.

    Insomnia was never an issue with me because of when I smoked. When I first started smoking, I would purposely smoke before bed for a great night sleep, but then when I got off, I had bad insomnia for a day or two. So, after that even though I smoked pretty much every day, I never smoked around bedtime so I still fell asleep on my own, so insomnia has not been one of my withdrawal symptoms.

    The worst of the withdrawal symptoms in my opinion is the boredom, the antsy fidgty. I was attracted to this because it chills me out. I have severe GAD and ADHD, and this was just an answer to my prayers as I’m sure some of you can imagine.

    So when I get off it just gets worse and I get so bored, which makes me drink alcohol or wanna do something else to get messed up.

    Anyway, for those of you that are thinking about smoking this stuff. I feel that it’s fine in moderation. If you know yourself, and know you can’t moderate or discipline yourself ,then this stuff isn’t for you.
    I smoked this stuff for 8 months without a single problem because I had a 2-5 day break between 2-7 days of every day smoking. But after just 2.5-3 months of smoking it every day (and a different blend so you can never be sure what it was) I started getting really sick.

    Has anyone else had a congested cough? I’ve had a cough for about 2 months now. I cough up brown-tannish-grey stuff. Mom thinks I have bronchitis?

    Anyway that’s it for now. I’ll be checking in.

  39. Nick says:

    The black/brownish stuff is BLOOD. This stuff causes serious lung damage (and can put holes in your lungs!) This stuff is not POT! Guys, please, how can I tell you any better? It’s like smoking AJAX. It might get you high, but for the life of me: tell me how smoking bleach is a good idea?

    Teenage, please see a doctor. Tell him the truth 100%. Don’t lie to your doctor. If you have to, tell your mom what you did: you wanted to be legal and this hurt you. Mom WILL NEVER HATE YOU, Teenage. You’re young, you will be fine. Please be more careful in the future. You are lucky you learned your lesson early.

    At this very moment I am re-examining my faith. Could it be that my Cell Bio and Neuroscience background, my ability to influence politicians, and me being put in this situation have been pre-destined?

    I know every time I read someone has stopped this drug I say a little thanks. I say it because I am still feeling the agony as I write this. I am an otherwise very healthy guy with a lot going for me, this has caused me significant harm. Don’t let me be you.

  40. TeenageSWIM says:

    Well, it’s not blood. It’s more greyish black, my description wasn’t very good. I’m suspecting its the resin being coughed up.. I am already not touching this stuff ever again.
    I told my mom what I was coughing up, I even showed it to her in a napkin. My mom is a practicing MD (for 23 years) and said it wasn’t blood but it looked like I had a virus of some sort.
    Does it mean 100% it wasn’t blood? No, but I just don’t think it was.

    My parents are aware of me smoking this, and my mom is also aware of the side effects.

    Nick have you been to the doctor? Did they say you have holes in your lungs?

    Other than the coughing, my lungs have remained feeling normal to me. I am a competitive athlete and train 2x a day (cardio and weights), while my breathing is labored from smoking (after all thats to be expected when you do it), it’s nothing i haven’t experienced from just mj.

    I’ll probably go see a doctor soon. I just got some blood work done, I have to get it every few months, so it’d be interesting to see if maybe smoking did anything to my cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. I’m sure it has, plus going away to college and eating crappy foods..

    My experience with this is still mostly pleasant. I’m not scared, upset, or panicking or anything. I feel sorry for those of you who have been affected so deeply it’s destroying your every waking moment ( or at least thats how some of you guys are describing it).
    My friend quit a week ago because he has MJ handy when the cravings come, I unfortunately don’t, so I gave in and bought this week. But as I said yesterday, starting later today, I will have Mary j handy, then I will go on vacation where I will cease smoking for 10 days and that should do it for me. I shouldn’t be thinking about this stuff at all.

    The reason why is because, once I cease smoking, I eventually forget what it feels like to be high, so I forget how pleasant it is, so then I forget how much I like it and thus I become not very interested in smoking anymore.

    Oh and 98% of the time the phlegm that comes up from my coughing looks like regular phlegm (clear, yellowish) but sometimes its black-grey color. Either way, I’ll know for sure the coughing is from smoking this stuff if it goes away after a while.

    I think the only part I really hate the most about this is the money wasted. I wasted a lot of money, and I’m a college student.
    I blew through roughly 1500 this semester. No doubt 70% of it on these blends. It’s the lack of control that I don’t like. With MJ, I can say no. It’s easy. Not even hard. I can take a hit and get up and walk away without worrying about it.
    This stuff you always want to re-dose, and if you don’t it bugs you so much until you do.

    Anyway I’ll tell people the truth. If they want to try these blends, sure they’re fun, but you’d better be careful because there’s a very thin line between an occasional smoker and a daily JWHead.

    My grades have also definitely suffered from this. I was doing fine in school at first when I smoked only once or twice a day. But when I met my buddy, we both just had a smoking synergy. So 1-2x a day quickly went to 4-6x a day average.

    Because of that, I’d ignore studying (obviously), skipping class when possible.
    Needless to say, because of this, I have to retake a class and my GPA will probably be 2.0 if I’m lucky.

    Anyway, because of the money, the grades, and the sudden recent symptoms that my friend and I both said enough was enough. We had tried to say enough was enough before but next thing I knew, he’d be saying, “let’s go smoke!” and of course I wouldn’t argue.
    Anyway, he had enough when he started throwing up almost every morning. I wanted to stop for Thanksgiving break but now I know today is my first official day.

    If I get sick from smoking, I have no problem telling my parents. I am not telling them about my grades and money problems though.
    I might as well just shoot myself in the head. 🙂

    The only thing going for me right now is the fact that I’m a freshman so I have room to screw up right now, but I really had planned on starting college strong. Well, hopefully this upcoming semester.

    I’ll be in touch.

  41. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Just wanted to say, I am not targeting anyone….I am glad to see all of the suggestions and “people diagnosis”. It all helps out. The only reason I KNOW that the withdrawl and overdose are different, is because of my friends experiences as well as mine. I have friends in the Navy that smoke this stuff like its going out of style( 6-10 times a day), but then end up going on deployment where they can’t touch it for 3 to 6 months at a time. Nothing has happened to any of them yet. (and I say yet cuz I preach to them that it will)! I smoked it for 8 months with no problems and then OVERDOSED! I knew I smoked too much when I did it. Not saying some withdrawl cases aren’t or can’t be extreme, but I think the overdose cases are the most extreme, and can be fatal.

  42. Nick says:

    Hello everyone, I am back and want you to know that I will be coming back to update you all on my progress and details so that we can have a positive commentary about this. First of all, let me just make it clear that the DEA is banning K2 and SPICE NATIONWIDE by next month. I have notified many people that the problem with this is that there is WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME and that the DEA doesn’t realize the prevalence of this stuff. Literally, it’s on EVERY campus. What the DEA is doing is effectively putting millions of kids into this withdrawal without educating them.

    I am doing my best to use my contacts to get in touch with all parts of government to make sure I can get the message out.

    #389 – it could very well be the resin as the resin is blackish as well. I should be careful to watch my language, I think I scared you when I’m trying to be as honest as possible. I apologize. You CAN have the potential to damage your lungs and put holes in them by smoking almost pretty much anything. I’m not saying this is the case with you. I have not had my lungs checked besides for an x-ray. I am still worried about potential long term effects given that I ignored ALL other warnings and the biggest one that I did heed (but didn’t care about) was the carcinogen one.

    Guys, some additional tips for handling the withdrawal that I thought I’d share:
    -Your body has lost its ability to tell when it’s sleepy, thirsty, hungry, etc. Each of these lacking will add to the anxiety syndrome you are feeling. So, make a schedule for:
    (1) drinking water (seriously, have a glass about every hour and a half);
    (2) eating beneficial things heavy in antioxidants (think detox detox detox). I go for 2 meals which is a reduced eating schedule. The Muscle Milk stuff is good cause you can down it like a drink. My appetite (day 7) is normalizing somewhat more; and
    (3) exercising (cardio will get you sweating that stuff out).

    I have a theory that maybe if I smoke the tiniest bit of marijuana, I might be able to solve my withdrawal symptoms for a while. That being because THC (and the 12 other agonists) are partial and they stay in your system for longer. Basically, you have a weak stimulator rubbing on that thirsty/hungry CB1/CB2 receptor. I highly suggest nobody does this until I come back from consulting a few of these researchers and doctors. I don’t want to put anyone in MORE HARM. BTW, for everyone going through this: there is light at the end of the tunnel. We will fight together!

    I will keep an hourly log tomorrow and post that for everyone so you can see some detail.

  43. Thought I was gonna die says:

    I took a 1/4 bar(or a peach) of xanax and it took the panic/anxiety away immediately. I’ve smoked marijuana and it tends to do the trick also….Feel like its only a matter of time till I forget it ever happened! 3 weeks after the fact!

  44. you have to admit, it IS kind of scary says:

    well i would have to say marijuana would definately help these symptoms based on LOTS of past experience with smoking it.

    on another note, alcohol works great to nullify the anxiety/heart symptoms. i could only imagine marijuana would work better, but i have to pass a drug test so cant experiment.

    i’ve reduced my spice blend smoking now to once per night down from 4 times daily and while i am having withdrawel symptoms, theyre fairly mild

  45. Garret says:

    Hi Nick
    I smoked low grade hash and weed for about 6 months. About 1-2 joints per night a few times a week. A friend told me try this stuff when I could not find any weed. I tried a few brands(Spice Gold, SmokeXXX, Spice Diamond, Smoke Plus and some other brand; I can’t think of it’s name). I only smoked a couple of joints from each of the brands, most of the time taking only fews hits per joint. I had a very bad experience the last time I smoked this stuff(only two hits from the joint). I feel that I have ruined my life.
    I was a little depressed when I was smoking this stuff, that did help. I just don’t feel 100% and it has been over a year. I have cob-web eye floaters in my vision, which I never had. They just poped up. Is this because of the anxiety? The following day, after the bad experience, I just felt I had done serious damage and became a hypochondriac type person. It’s was like as if the stuff took over my mind. I taught I could hear hissing in my head. I just feel as I wil be paranoid about my heath for the rest of my life. Things would not be so bad if I had less depression and anxiety. The major eye floaters are making everything worse(more anxious and depressed). Will I ever return to myself? And will the eye flaoters dissipate. Are the eye heightened awareness of the eye floaters caused by HPPD or the anxiety?
    Please help
    Thanks.

    Garret

  46. Garret says:

    Hi Nick
    If I just heard from somebody that used this stuff and returned to normal I would feel great. I worry that this may never lift. Nick, were the black spots you saw eye floaters?
    Please post soon

  47. Bama420 says:

    I must be bulletproof! I have smoked 1oo mg of pure JWH 018 in 4 hours and just keep enjoying the rushes you guys refer to as anxiety. If you cannot handle it, its like alcohol, i know a ton of people that cannot handle that without flipping out, leave it alone and quit wasting your time complaining. Get a poster and stand outside the DEA headquarters and protest for God’s sake! You are buying unpurified BS from the wrong supplier! I hope I at least shut one of you dumb asses up!

  48. Brutally Honest says:

    Bama420….You are what I like to refer to as “A FULL BLOWN IDIOT” If I was mean, I would wish it upon YOU…..but I’m not mean…just honest! Keep smoking high amounts and see what happens, or you could QUIT right now and savor what brain cells u have left!

  49. TeenageSWIM says:

    I’ve been smoking strictly MJ. I’ve had no withdrawals as I thought I wouldn’t (I already got symptoms while i was smoking, no real withdrawals really).
    No problems sleeping or eating. I’m not going to be smoking at all for the next few days until at least Friday. We’ll see what happens?

  50. Garret says:

    I am still waiting for the log Nick. I hope you have not changed your mind.

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