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JWH-018, Spice & Me

By John Clarke

The Spice smoking mixture range has been one of the most popular “herbal” smokes ever, and now it’s no suprise why.

To get an idea of just how popular these mix­tures are, just take a look at this data from Google’s keyword tool:

That’s over 37,000 searches a month for these three search terms alone — Spice is def­in­itely a cus­tomer favour­ite. I also get no less than 500 emails a day from Russia asking if I can ship it there by the kilo. So what’s behind it all?

This paper [PDF; 246 kB] has some inter­est­ing things to say. It turns out that the Spice blends all contain JWH-018 as well as two com­pounds based on CP 47497 — all of them syn­thetic can­nabin­oids. These are man made chem­ic­als designed to tickle the same recept­ors as THC, the active com­pound in can­nabis, so it’s no wonder these smoking mix­tures are so power­ful. The dif­fer­ence in potency between the Spice blends appears to be accoun­ted for by increas­ing levels of these CP 47497 homo­logues.


Since this dis­cov­ery, Spice has been banned in several coun­tries, includ­ing Austria and Germany. The BBC also repor­ted on it and had the fol­low­ing to say:

The UK drugs reg­u­lator, the Medi­cine and Health­care products Reg­u­lat­ory Agency (MHRA), is under­stood to have iden­ti­fied JWH018 in products avail­able in the UK. It is cur­rently in order to determ­ine whether or not it should be clas­si­fied as a medi­cinal product — which would mean it should only be avail­able from a doctor.

The UK Advis­ory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the gov­ern­ment on whether a drug should be made illegal, is also aware of the sub­stance, and is invest­ig­at­ing it.

The Spice man­u­fac­tur­ers make no mention of these syn­thet­ics on their pack­aging, so a lot of herb-enthu­si­asts feel some­what betrayed. Rightly so, I suppose — not being told just what you’re smoking exactly. People have the choice to put things in their body and some Spice smokers might make a dif­fer­ent decision if they had all the facts in hand.

But, why?

The typical reac­tion to this news seems to be the disgust about putting any of these “unsafe” man-made com­pounds into their body, as though mother nature was some kind of safety net. “These plants have thou­sands of years of safe use”, they say! But let’s take a closer look…

Take Kratom, for instance. Kratom con­tains a power­ful com­pound called mitra­gyn­ine, which acts upon the opioid recept­ors; the same targets for opium and its deriv­at­ives. One alkal­oid in kratom, although present in much smaller quant­it­ies, is 7-hydroxymitra­gyn­ine, which is appar­ently 17x more potent than morphine! While I wouldn’t call this plant harmful, com­pared to other drugs like cocaine and heroin, it wouldn’t say it was harm­less either. The opioid recept­ors are a dan­ger­ous set of recept­ors to be messing with — the mu subtype respons­ible for the classic euphoria that accom­pan­ies opiate use also stops you breath­ing if you tickle them too much. Opiates are also addict­ive, just like kratom can be if you take too much. While this plant may have seen thou­sands of years of respons­ible, mod­er­ate use, this is no reas­sur­ance at all towards its safety.

Now days, people gen­er­ally don’t toil in the field every day that Newton sends — we have more free time and money to spend than ever before. We can now afford to use large quant­it­ies of kratom every day, as well as other entheo­gens from around the world, but we don’t have any inform­a­tion about this level of expos­ure to kratom itself or in com­bin­a­tion with other stuff. For all we know, taking a mixture of kratom and Salvia divinorum daily could make your eye­balls explode after day 300, or chronic kratom use might give you some kind of evil super­power. Looking at paracetamol as a rather boring example, if you take the odd one every now and then, you’ll be fine, but if you take 8 pills a day every day for a year, you’ll likely end up with some serious con­di­tion. There’s also the fact that modern chem­istry can create power­ful extracts of these entheo­gens. Who’s to say they’re safe, just because they come from a plant? And what about any other drugs we might be on? Being on a select­ive sero­tonin reup­take inhib­itor like Prozac for depres­sion isn’t uncom­mon in today’s society — combine them with the “per­fectly safe” Ban­is­teriopsis caapi vine, itself a monoam­ine oxidase inhib­itor, and you have a poten­tially fatal com­bin­a­tion of drugs in your system. I bet there are many more con­train­dic­a­tions we haven’t even con­sidered.

What about plants like can­nabis and tobacco? They’ve also been used respons­ibly for thou­sands of years, but it’s only when so many people start to take these things that we real­ised “Actu­ally, smoking is bad for us”. Besides, our current medical know­ledge means we’ve only recently been able to dia­gnose these kind of things. I’m not sure I want to trust any data from a period when epi­lepsy might have been down to a demonic pos­ses­sion. How many adverse health effects could we identify in these ancient entheo­gen users based on what we know today?

So, while we can be uncer­tain of the long term effects on health of JWH-018 and friends, it seems we can’t actu­ally be certain about the safety of most of the things we happily consume. Yes, they may turn out to be super toxic (although prob­ably not, if they’re given to lab rats), but at least they only act on your can­nabin­oid recept­ors. Kratom tends to be pre­pared as a tea — once you’ve drunk it, you’ve drunk it. If you’ve taken too much, you’ll realise when its already in your blood. It would be much harder to over­dose on these syn­thet­ics due to the speed at which they get in your system — if you’re too stoned, you won’t want to smoke any more, never mind being phys­ic­ally able to. The can­nabin­oid recept­ors they target are also much safter than the opioid targets of kratom. Can­nabin­oid recept­ors seem play a mod­u­lat­ory role, rather than being majorly import­ant, so messing with them doesn’t have as drastic an effect. Smoking too much might make you feel a bit sick and dizzy for a while, but you cer­tainly won’t stop breath­ing.

In all, I think Spice is in the wrong for not making this clear in the first place, but then I’m not suprised they didn’t want to list these com­pounds in the current polit­ical climate. Maybe when the gov­ern­ment real­ises that it is our right to put things into our own bodies, listing these ingredi­ents wouldn’t be an issue.

Even with this new inform­a­tion however, I’ll still be using the stuff. It’s great!.

465 Responses to JWH-018, Spice & Me

  1. Bama420 says:

    Robert, You are one of the first that has the sense to use this product right. I am ter­min­ally ill, I can use this or of course I can get any pre­scrip­tion I want includ­ing Dilota, Morphine injec­tions, Demerol, Meth­adone, etc., i choose to not take nar­cot­ics due to a clin­ical addic­tion since age 12. If used prop­erly, this medi­cine beats them all!

  2. lost180 says:

    i was a heavy canibus user for years due to recent events i have made the switch to “spice”, i liked it at first its gave me a good buzz, as time went on i started notice­ing dif­fer­ent things about my self, i was in a con­stant paraniod state with high anxiety, about an hour or two later i get extremly exhausted and pass out, my sleep­ing habbits are out of control. my heart races and on some oca­tions my vision gets blurd. i fear that these syptoms will even­tu­ally turn per­min­ant, but for some reason i cant bring myself to stop using it. is there at a strong spice with no side effects?

  3. Sane? says:

    I read many of the posts here and for some reason felt the need to respond (prob­ably because people are going to be mislead left and right). JWH-018 is pretty much com­pletely safe (as safe as smoking can be for you). Tox­ic­o­logy tests have been run on it and they all came up neg­at­ive for any­thing really bad, it doesn’t even con­trib­ute to cancer growth (too bad i can’t say the same for it if you don’t believe me). For the people who have had bad exper­i­ences on it I can only say a few things. They are either lying or had no idea what they were doing/​buying. Most likely these are the same people who drink too much alcohol and end up being rushed to the hos­pital for alcohol pois­on­ing. These are the people who can’t even handle smoking simple marijuana, get high, spazz out, then spend their free time posting on forums about the evils of marijuana. These people are, in short and sad to say, retards. The people who don’t fall into those two cat­egor­ies are unfor­tu­nate victims of shoddy products. There are many coun­ter­feit brands of incense and as well as plain out inferior products made by people who just want to make buck (not all, but some). The last remain­ing reason I can offer for people who have bad exper­i­ences on it is maybe it was an aller­gic reac­tion to some­thing in it. I’m aller­gic to peni­cil­lin so I know if I ever need anti­bi­ot­ics I should make sure my doctor knows my allergy. I don’t go flaming it on forums every chance I get because it will harm ME. Do research into some­thing before you just start putting things you know nothing about into your body. It doesn’t take very long and will save you from looking like the world’s biggest idiot on idiot planet during “Idiots Get In Free Day”. I’ve tried one of these products (Spice) and can say nothing bad has happened to me. The one time I smoked too much I real­ized it instantly, because I was com­pletely zoned out, and you know what I did? I put the bowl down and went to sleep. When I woke up the next morning I felt fine. No need to be rushed to the hos­pital, wasn’t falling all over the place puking or making a jackass out of myself…nothing. In fact, I HAVE had one too many drinks in my past, to which I attrib­ute to being a young imbe­cile, and felt worse then then I’ve ever felt on any­thing else. Ser­i­ously, I’d rather be sick with the flu than be drunk.
    Well before I get more off topic than I am now, I offer this advice..
    1. Do research, learn about what you’re putting in your body. Don’t be a guinea pig.

    2. As with any­thing fun, Use in mod­er­a­tion. Even too much exer­cise is bad for you.

    3. Just because you had a bad exper­i­ence on some­thing doesn’t mean other people will. Sharing your exper­i­ence is fine, but you shouldn’t try to make people believe what happened to you will happen to them. When they do it anyway (which they will) and nothing happens, you will only look stupid.

  4. dave says:

    @ sane , I had a peanut butter sand­wich this morning , nothing happened to me either !

  5. wondering sun says:

    so on this spice stuff i ran­domly toke it because my man is having a hard time not being able to smoke weed so he of course went to spice when he needed to every once in a while i will indulge and nothing happens well except its an upper to me unlike to him its a way to fall asleep for me its a way to get the house clean and go for a walk if i smoke it it wakes me right up no para­noia at all red eyes some­times and dehyd­ra­tion keep hydrated it will keep the tripps away i noticed once i smoked maybe 2 hits and i got extreamly light headed and weak i thought it might be from not eating yet that morning but i never eat that early any way.. i got heart palp­a­tions very dizzy i hurred upsairs got a cup of watter and sipped it and layed on my bed for a while i felt like i was spin­ning once i layed down and i had to focus on breath­ing in my mouth out my nose slow and steady i ser­i­ously thought i was going to die but i have tripped before so i just tried to stay calm and focused i texted my man while at work just to let him know what happed incase he found me dead when he got home lol when i felt i could stand for a moment i got up hid every thing and fell right back down stated feeling worse my mind was racing and i just felt insanely ter­rible i was shaking i was so ter­ri­fied i just thought this is it im going to die but other than that a few times oh and if you mix it with alcohol you will have a bad trip like this includ­ing vomit­ing maybe idk but he did and it was ter­rible …but other than that its fine just a wierd uppers to me and sup­presses appet­ite i would like to know if any one knows how long it stays in the system and if they have testing for it … and ect on that thank you

  6. wondering sun says:

    oh yeah after i felt a little better i seemed like minutes after but it was about a hour of a trip i jumped in the shower oh my god it was the best thing that had ever happed to me i swear it i stayed in there for ever i hat hot showers but i couldent get enough of the heat and even when it got frezz­ing loved it it was wierd but if you trip sit in the shower with a bath beneth you if you promise not to be to fucked to stand with out falling or if you need to sit in it for i while !

  7. Nemo says:

    Just yes­ter­day I decide to try the spice, because some couple told me about it. I have never tried drugs, the only thing I do is smoke regular cigar­ettes, not even alcohol. Anyways, I felt tempted since every­body says getting high is the best thing ever, blah, blah , blah. Since the spice is legal I decided to give it a shot. So I tried it, I took two puffs out of that thing, and held it, OMG. This is so far the most Hor­rible, scar­i­est, and cra­zi­est exper­i­ence I have ever had in my entire life, and I think I will ever have. I got so ditzy, I feel like I was spin­ning, I couldn’t feel my body, I felt in total anes­thesia, there­fore it was hard for me to even walk, … When I got in my bedroom , I started throw­ing up, every time I would move I threw up, so I decide to just lay on the floor next to all that vomit. I finally decided to go to bed, cause I wanted to get out of it, make it go away, I was pan­ick­ing so bad, I was so scared that would never wake up out of it. I kept my eyes closed almost all the time because if i tried ton open them I would feel like a shock in my entire body espe­cially my head. Besides I couldn’t focus worth a shit, everything was blurry. For real people, this has been a very bad exper­i­ence for me, I will never ever do any shit like that. Just because someone says is good, it doesn’t mean it is. This was my first and last time I try any drugs. Still today I don’t feel myself being me, is like I am not com­pletely here yet. I still feel kind of sick, and I can’t move my eyes fast. This thing might be good for others but is bad for me, very bad.

  8. forrest says:

    i have tryed it one time and i dont like it at all i got a messave head ake and onece i did it i od. when i woke up i was in the hos­pitle and they tell me i have a 50% chance to live. so do what right and quit.…… you and both sakes

  9. Bama420 says:

    Well put, YOU OD’ed! You bought crap from a cruddy sup­plier. You know, poison will make you high in mod­er­a­tions. I have tried to make these bad effects happen to me by research­ing for 6 months, it just does not happen, but I buy from a reli­able source and what happened to you is the fact that it was not pur­i­fied cor­rectly. Why, because that is what costs the RC sup­pli­ers money is to purify it cor­rectly. All you did was trigger your anxiety that you were born with, some­times it is hard to see the( forrest) because of all the damn trees. Sorry you got poisoned my friend. I have had 3 heart attacks and am ter­min­ally ill, but no doctor has ever said that I have a certain % chance of living, even when I was on life support for 2 months due to Sky­diving acci­dent. All this was way before trying any blends. So I used extreme pre­cau­tion when using a new source. My blood pres­sure has never gone up, if any­thing it sta­bil­izes it. I am a dia­betic and now take half the insulin that I used to take. I now have back the appet­ite that I lost due to damage to digest­ive system in acci­dent. Good medi­cine for me is poison for you, doubt it. I just don’t mess with poison like you did. Again, pur­chase from a friend that you can trust! I am not trying to attack you and I will pray for your well being, but I just don’t want to see any­thing bad happen to you. You are prob­ably best off without it instead of risking and buying from someone you don’t know. God Bless, Bama

  10. D3 says:

    Time for me to post again-
    I was a Syn­chronium fre­quent poster and even shared my own recipes-go look them up and see I was an RC afi­cion­ado for awhile.
    Smoking only small amounts of herb blend (but at 55 mg/​gram) I used quite often on days off and some even­ings too.
    I have had the panic attacks about 1 out of every 6 times that I smoked it. It had JWH 18,073,081 and 250. I also used K2 summit blends and some Black Mamba before I suc­cess­fully made my own blend.
    I have had several extremely bad trips that I went to hos­pital once when drink­ing also. The effects were anxiety, slow breath­ing, dif­fi­culties in visual focus­ing, chest tight­ness, strong aware­ness of heart beating, mild insom­nia, and my oxygen levels go below 90 at nite so I must use an oxygen machine wearing a tube that goes up both nos­trils- how fun !!
    Don’t use this stuff. I’m glad it is out­lawed in my state. I will never try it again.
    But many friends of mine are just fine. Also euphoria tinc­ture that is out is also not rec­comen­ded. They should have made weed legal.
    Viva la RC’s- Not!!

  11. TheMystic says:

    I am waiting on a “herbal incense kit” which comes with everything needed to make your own incense equal to K2 summit. I will write back and let you all know how it goes once I make a batch.

  12. MacTownShores says:

    I’ve been smoking dif­fer­ent herbal incense blends now every day for about 2 and a half to three months now. When I smoke I feel good and I’ve had the fast heart­beat, shaking, scary as hell trip about twice. Both when I smoked a blend called Scooby Snax. Don’t get me wrong I still smoke the stuff, you just can’t over do it and be stupid about it. My lungs have felt a bit of wear-and-tear but for the most part I feel the same. Still, be very wary of this stuff.

  13. RandomDude says:

    I’m an avid Mari smoker…
    I tried a little less than half a blunt of this stuf…
    need­less to say it wasnt a high. It was a full blown trip.
    A very bad one at that. The feeling, thoughts, everything was hor­rible.

    Stick­ing straight to bud..and all your people backing it up
    are just pussy’s for not smoking weed. Who cares if your job drugs test’s? Do you really want to work for a company that spies on your per­sonal life? Spice is bad for you, its a ter­rible chem­ical. Just go get your medical card or get Marinol. Spice is ter­rible shit.

  14. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    To Dave and Guy with advice…Thanks for your stories. They have really helped me out!
    First off, I used to be an avid smoker of Marijuana. I smoked marijuana for about the last 10 years or so (mul­tiple times a day). Last year I was in Cali­for­nia and was made aware of spice. So I looked on the inter­net for side effects or any­thing bad and couldn’t find a thing(at that time). So I took it up. For about 8 months or so I was smoking Marijuana several times a day and smoking spice on occa­sion. (2−3 times a week). Now I’ve been as high as u can get from pot, and even thought I was as high as I could get from spice. (spice got me higher and even on the verge of trip­ping).
    So about two weeks ago I quit smoking pot to get a job and I con­tin­ued smoking spice. A week into it (last week 11−14−10) me and my buddy scraped our bowl to smoke the resin. Worst mistake I’ve EVER made. We smoked some Mr nice guy earlier that day and the effects were wearing off so we wanted to get high again. I took 2 hits off of the resin. Now Ive smoked the resin mul­tiple times as well, but this time was dif­fer­ent. At first it was like a normal really hard trippy buzz, but about a half hour into it I thought I was going to die! I was trying to lay down and watch tv and all the sudden my hands, feet, and nose started freez­ing. I kept remind­ing myself to breathe, and it just felt like my body was shut­ting down. I thought it was the end! I jumped into the shower to try to warm up and found myself doing jumping jacks in the shower to try to get my blood flowing. Lucky for me it worked a little cuz I was a sec from calling 911 without health insur­ance. After­wards I was still all f’d up, but figured if I could just go to sleep I would be better in the morning. Well, its been a week now, and every­day so far, I have had an episode of my heart racing, light­headed­ness follwed by sweat­ing and cold chills and ear ringing. I have noticed they are less intense with every passing day but it still scares the shit out of me. I quit using after that day and plan on NEVER smoking it ever again. I am a phys­ic­ally fit 28 yr old guy that was pos­it­ive it wouldn’t happen to me (and even still have friends that think the same thing). I am just glad to hear that hope­fully I will keep getting better and hope­fully this shit will go away! and that my story will help some­body too!
    Ps. I wonder if like Xanax or somethin like that might help with the rapid heart­beat and not being able to sleep?

  15. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    I have also noticed that a bottle of water kinda helps when the symp­toms flair up. I also take fish oil. Wished they would just leg­al­ize pot so we aren’t the test sub­jects for a poten­tially fatal drug!

  16. dave says:

    yup , it gets better ! drug induced panic dis­order ‚its all in your mind bro . the worst that can happen has already happened . lasted a good six months , but over a year on I’m 110% ‚just never touch­ing spice (or weed) again , my brain had had enough .
    i’m sure its fine for some , like weed was for me for 20 years , but fucked some­thing up big time in my brain chem­istry !
    i don’t want to ruin the party (cus i hated people like me !) just want to show the people who’ve had a bad one that theres light at the end of the tunnel , peace.

  17. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Thanks again Dave…and now 10 days later, I feel about 90%! I was worried it was going to last forever…Still get the heart racing a little, but its 90% better already and I can def see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thank GOD!!!

  18. budnik says:

    Con­sider your­self lucky, it’s been almost 2 months since I smoked one hit of this stuff (see my pre­vi­ous posts) and I am still messed up with no real indic­a­tion of getting any better. Now I have hor­rible insom­nia as well, I’m lucky if I get 3 hours of sleep a night. I’ve been to another doctor and a neur­o­lo­gist and they have no idea what to do, one of them pre­scribed ser­oquel for sleep­ing which I read up on and it’s an anti-psychotic med so I’m like wtf? Had blood tests done, all came back fine. I still feel half stoned all the time which may sound like “fun” to some people but it sure as hell isn’t for me. Not sure how much longer this will con­tinue or I can deal with it I just can’t believe it’s still going on.

  19. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    I am pos­it­ive you will get over it…I hon­estly think it is all in your head. Its a psychy thing. I have a friend that doesn’t smoke at all and he gets panic attacks all the time. He described them to me and it sounds like the exact same thing as what I was going through. He says xanax gets rid of it imme­di­ately after taking. Now being as f’d up as I was, I didn’t want to put ANY­THING in my body cuz I was afraid it might do more damage, but last night I hit some MJ for the first time since, and it brought some of it back right away and then mel­lowed me back out completely…and it hon­estly feels like it bal­anced me back out where I was before I got all f’d up. You have to fight it with your brain if that makes any since at all. Just hang in there and try not to even think about it. I know its hard, but you CAN do it! I wish you the best and will keep you and every­one else in my prayers!

  20. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    And by MJ I mean Marijuana of course. I won’t smoke spice EVER again!

  21. Nick says:

    I am know­ledge­able enough to scru­tin­ize a peer-reviewed, pub­lished sci­entific article, and I am now a pro­fes­sional lawyer, but I was stupid enough to smoke the pure JWH-018. My reas­on­ing? It was legal. I cannot, for the life of me, tell you how stupid I was for making the decision to smoke it. This is a warning to anyone who will listen:

    I started by smoking the blends. Spice Gold, Spice. Quickly, the 3g per week tol­er­ance built up and the 1 pack a week started to only last me half a week. It wasn’t before long I’d search forums like this and find out, hey, you can get the active ingredi­ent online for cheaper.

    Dosage issues aside, I started out at 2 – 3 mg. The tol­er­ance gradi­ent is steep. Quickly, it turned into 5 – 10 mg doses. Then, more. Then, more. At the end of 13 weeks, I was smoking 3 grams of JWH-018 PER WEEK, pure. I stopped when I looked into my cabinet one day and saw ALL of the Fedex envel­opes there from the JWH sup­plier and real­ized how much I had exactly gone through. I pan­icked and tossed out everything — there was a little voice inside me that said, “You are in quick sand, if you don’t stop now, you’re done.”

    I chose to live. I tossed out my smoking appar­atus with such con­vic­tion I was shaking with anger. The with­draw­als started pretty much the next day. Imme­di­ately, I could tell there was some sense of agit­a­tion. I knew it would get worse, having some­times gone without some pure JWH for a day or two and real­iz­ing that lit­er­ally it would kill my appet­ite and sleep for that break.

    The next day I didn’t eat at all and it was 9pm before I real­ized I felt hungry. I had a strong craving for buffalo wings. As soon as I would put one in my mouth however, I’d have the sen­sa­tion that I’d had eaten too much and that I needed to stop or I’d throw up. As soon as the chicken was back on the plate, the hunger would re-emerge. This appet­ite-cycle IS the exact with­drawal symptom asso­ci­ated with the appet­ite loss and it adds to the overall agit­a­tion.

    As for the sleep­less­ness, it was imme­di­ate. For one thing, JWH would def­in­itely cue my sleep­i­ness and hunger. Without it, I wasn’t sleep­ing AT ALL. Not even one wink. I would feel incred­ibly tired and just lie there with my eyes closed. I even found myself (humi­li­at­ing) begging to a God I could have sworn I told other people I didn’t believe in before. I was afraid to take any­thing harder than a Tylenol PM to fall asleep, which helped some­what. The problem was, the insom­nia was there UNLESS I took the Tylenol PM. The Tylenol PM, on top of everything else, would add to morning drowsi­ness. So I had to stop. Again, all this stuff adds to your with­drawal agony.

    Now, the other symp­toms that are ever­p­resent:
    -Internal “agony” or “unrest” ; a con­stant fidgety feeling
    -Your head feels like it’s stuffy from study­ing 13 hours straight…without study­ing 13 hours straight
    -Feeling of dis­as­so­ci­ation
    -Rapid Heartrate
    -When I got angry one time, it was more than I’d ever been in my life and lit­er­ally my face turned plum red, I started pro­fusely sweat­ing, I started seeing black spots and my hands got numb. I was in shock.
    -Tachy­car­dia (I know this, but most won’t) — Very dan­ger­ous!

    It is now 6 days later and the symp­toms have not gotten better although appear­ing to wave in and out. I have tried doing several things to help myself:

    -Listen­ing to Bin­aural Beats (look this term up)
    -Exer­cising (cardio cardio cardio … listen SWEAT whatever is in you OUT)
    -Lots of fluids, par­tic­u­larly a bottle of mineral water a day and some pure pomegranate juice (heavy anti­ox­id­ant)
    -Muscle Milk Protein Shakes to help me when I couldn’t eat any­thing. This is a small drink, some­what tasty, and very easy to down in a couple gulps.
    -Daily mul­tiv­it­am­ins along with some crack­ers so I wouldn’t throw up from it (it can do that to you on empty stomach)

    I strayed from 5-HTP, a sup­ple­ment some­times used for marijuana with­drawal, but being that we don’t know what JWH has done to us, I wasn’t about to make the SAME MISTAKE TWICE!

    I am an oth­er­wise very healthy 28 year old man. I reg­u­larly go to the gym (almost reli­giously). There is abso­lutely no reason that I should be feeling this way. I feel so strongly about wanting to educate people about this drug, but being that I see it EVERY­WHERE already, I am really con­cerned.

    I might go to Gov. Chris Christie and be at the fore­front to putting some of these JWH man­u­fac­tur­ers in jail. This product is being mar­keted as a safe/​legal pot altern­at­ive. Regard­less of their illus­ory dis­claimer lan­guage, you can’t sell a powder in America that has no other use for it than for people to smoke it, in various forms, with nota­tions on your cite that it’s been banned in some States, without knowing that what you’re selling is crim­inal.

    I don’t want to get into the con­sti­tu­tion­al­ity of it. Please just take my warning and that of others. THROW THIS SHIT OUT, TODAY! NOW! THROW IT THE FUCK OUT!


    Okay, this is Nick, the lawyer again. I actu­ally scrolled up and read some of the stories here. It appears people have ACTU­ALLY fingered the right dia­gnosis: this is a drug induced anxiety dis­order. But first, let me mention, to the naysay­ers: walk a mile in someone’s shoes before you preach. STOP SMOKING, wait a day or two, and tell me how you sleep. Tell me how you eat. You’ll know then why you were wrong.

    Anxiety dis­orders are caused by CHEM­ICAL IMBAL­ANCES. This is NOT a benign dia­gnosis. As a Neur­os­cience major, I will tell you that sci­ent­ists have rel­at­ively no clue as to what exactly can cause a wide variety of anxiety dis­orders. The worst part is that all of our meta­bol­isms are dif­fer­ent as well, so there’s no telling that if my anxiety dis­order is this severe how someone else’s may be. Again, I’m 28, extremely healthy (you can see my muscles all over my body and I go to the gym like zealot, run 1 hour each day), and the WITH­DRAWAL has FLOORED me.

    Here, we know what has induced it. The good news is, although we are likely to feel these symp­toms for a few months before they com­pletely dis­ap­pear, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    Dear web­mas­ter, I am not a regular user of this site, but I think it’s time you made a new page with a better heading with inform­a­tion for people based on the find­ings here. I would be happy to help you if it is a time issue because I feel it is a moral imper­at­ive for people to KNOW ABOUT THESE CB1 and CB2 AGON­ISTS and THEIR HARM.

    Indeed, I had seen this link during my pre­lim­in­ary JWH research but skimmed over it because the heading wasn’t attract­ive or didn’t seem to catch my eye. If people see the warn­ings, they’ll think twice: “Hey, no one ever says THAT about pot.”

    I’d like to explain to every­one that this anxiety dis­order will last until your brain essen­tially re-bal­ances. For a while now, you’ve been using a syn­thetic sub­stance to induce (1) appet­ite, (2) sleep, and (3) have altered your mood to an elated state via an arti­fi­cial chem­ical. You body is read­just­ing to these 3 things.

    There are several ways to treat anxiety. I highly recom­mend staying away from the phar­ma­ceut­ic­als like Xanax or Ser­oquel (as men­tioned above). These are syn­thetic chem­ic­als with poten­tial side effects that may worsen your situ­ation. Ser­oquel is used to treat schizo­phrenia as well, do you want to put THAT in your body?

    Opt instead for the fol­low­ing:
    -Herbal Teas that say they relax you: (Chamo­mile, Valerian Root, etc.)
     — HTP-5, a sup­ple­ment you can buy in con­veni­ence stores.
    -Mag­nesium (said to reduce anxiety)
    -Valerian Root Extract (this smells nasty and comes in pill form. If you eat it on an empty stomach, it may cause you a bit of an upset stomach) — try to use this as spar­ingly as pos­sible, almost like a last ditch nudge for the worst of times.
    -Med­it­at­ing (can’t tell you how much this helps — it’s not easy to learn — check out this one as you lie down in a dark room: http://​www​.archive​.org/​d​e​t​a​i​l​s​/​M​C​u​l​l​e​n​B​o​d​y​S​c​a​n​M​e​d​i​t​a​t​ion
    -Bin­aural Beats — these ACTU­ALLY work…they are tones gen­er­ated at a certain fre­quency that play in one ear through head­phones while a relax­ing sound (like ocean waves) plays on the other. They have several with dif­fer­ent effects. If you have an iPhone, get the “Brain Wave” (23 Beats Bin­aural Program) app.
    -taking advant­age of those “up” moments (and you will have them if you use the tech­niques above) to feel REALLY good (savor it 100%)
    -Massage if you can get one
    -breath­ing exer­cises
    -petting your fave animal

    Hon­estly, you just need some TLC and you will be fine in 2 – 3 months. It’s going to be a very, very dif­fi­cult journey. It’s not “ALL IN YOUR HEAD”. For years, this has been the weed myth­o­logy — that there’s no with­drawal because of zero physiolo­gical symp­toms. As a Neur­os­cience major, I am going to tell you that’s horse shit. Physiolo­gical symp­toms INCLUDE changes in brain chem­istry. As a result of not smoking pot, you induce this very with­drawal here but to a MUCH, MUCH lesser extent.

    Without a doubt, this stuff can inev­it­ably kill someone. At this point, I have no doubt in mind that it is poten­tially lethal.


    I hope what I have said above will help people. At the same time, I am going to come back here and update over the next few days and let people know everything I am feeling. I will try to keep a diary of my day with the hours so people can get a general feeling of what this feels like.

    Ignor­ance is not bliss, it can mean death. Web­mas­ter, you will do human­ity a large favor if you help spread this inform­a­tion better. You happen to be the ONLY resource where I found help. I’ve even con­tac­ted ALL of the sci­ent­ists in the peer reviewed art­icles. The ones that got back to me are getting back in touch with their sub­jects now to see how they’re doing and will get back to me.

    Good luck to every­one. One final thing, someone here said some­thing bril­liant and I want to repeat it:

    “You have all the drugs you need right in your skull already, tap them.”

  23. dave says:

    well said nick !

  24. budnik says:

    Now that I read your post Nick, I’m won­der­ing if I’m getting with­drawls from not smoking weed (natural weed) along with whatever is hap­pen­ing from smoking the “herbal incense”. I have been smoking regular weed for a while, I haven’t been a daily user for at least 6 – 7 years but I would still smoke on the weekend pretty much every weekend, but only a few hits off a one-hitter at that. But, I never had any of the symp­tomns I’m having now prior to smoking that herbal incense. The worst thing for me is the feeling of being par­tially stoned and having my mind feel kind of cloudy/​confused all the time. I hate to even go out of the house because it makes it worse. Going to the mall or grocery story — it’s bad. I try to be/​act normal at work but it’s tough. I can’t under­stand how it could take so long to at least subside some­what. If I could feel better even a little bit once a while at least it would give me hope that even­tu­ally it will go away. From the research I’ve done online I’m think­ing that there may have been some salvia or god knows what else mixed in with the herbal incense, unfor­tu­nat­ley I threw the bag out so I’ll never know. I’m not getting all the symp­toms that you and other people are describ­ing, for example I am eating/​get hungry nor­mally and I don’t get panic attacks. I am very worried about what symp­toms I am having because I sure as hell don’t want to feel like this forever. The insom­nia is hor­rible as well, which I never used to have. I totally agree with you, I don’t want to take any other meds as who knows what will happen with other side effects but when I’ve gotten barely 2 – 3 hours sleep 4 – 5 nights in a row I’m to the point where I just say f*** it and take a pill. I’ve read about every post I can find on that ser­oquel stuff and yeah the side effects can be bad but for sleep it’s taken in very low doses (25 mg) and it knocks me out for 7 – 8 hours. On a side note now that I’ve read info online about insom­nia I am amazed at how many people have major prob­lems with this. I too work out like crazy with weights (at least prior to what’s been hap­pen­ing the last 7 weeks) but as you know without sleep that is very dif­fi­cult at best. I don’t know it just feels like my mind is not right, I still have the very sens­it­ive hearing as well. It’s weird when I’m tired lying on the couch watch­ing tv I will kind of fade out for a few minutes then it feels like my mind kind of “snap resets” and I will wake up and not be tired anymore. What fun.

  25. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Nick.…I don’t doubt you know what you are talking about when it comes to the with­drawl. What I am saying, is that Me and a few others on here have over­dosed on it…I’m pretty sure it is two totally dif­fer­ent exper­i­ences. Regard­less, I think every­one will recover 100% from either, as long as you don’t smoke the SHIT ever again!

  26. you have to admit, the stuff IS a little scary says:

    we’ll after reading through some of this, I figured I would share my own exper­i­ence with this drug.

    the first time I used serenity now, I smoked the same amount as if it were low grade marijuana due to my ignor­ance of the product. At first I was like “man this is GOOD shit” but then I noticed that my heart was pound­ing. I tried to ignore it as I have gotten this same sen­sa­tion from large amount of marijuana, but it just got worse and worse. My chest began to hurt and then I started to panic. “am I going to have a heart attack?’ I asked myself. other people were home, but unaware that I had just smoked. I began to feel faint, so I sat on the couch right next to them and pre­ten­ded to watch t.v.…the logic was that if I passed out from a heart attack, they would at least witness it and call 911. this feeling came and went in waves for about twenty minutes, then once it had calmed down the exper­i­ence was actu­ally enjoy­able.

    I ended up trying more later, only this time a much lower dose. it did seem to increase my heart rate a little, but i never felt the panic like before. Due to my having to pass a drug test for work, I decided to buy more and use it in extreme moderation…thats when the news came that the gov­ern­ment is going to ban the drug. still high on serenity, I made an impulse decision to run to the head shop and buy 150 dollars worth(the amount you have to buy from them to get a dis­count on it) and I con­tin­ued smoking about half a bowl of it 2 – 4 times a day all this week.

    other than the rapid heart­beat that i some­times exper­i­ence while using it, I’ve notice some other symp­toms that are quite dis­turb­ing when NOT high on it. These are mainly heart pal­pit­a­tions, pain in the left side of my chest/​back, and an overall strage, hard to describe feeling in my head. almost like light headed­ness but there seems to be a little more to it than that.

    I’m having a hard time dis­tin­guising this from with­drawel symp­toms or panic type symp­toms related to use of the drug. if I smoke a very small amount of the drug the symp­toms seem to go away almost instantly, but upon taking a few more hits i get the heart pal­pit­a­tions again, though it some­times seems a lot milder when I’m actu­ally high on the drug whereas now it seems worse in the morn­ings when I wake up after using it the night before.

    I’d also like to note that the drug is quite pleas­ant when I’ve been drink­ing and is very hard for me to dif­fer­en­ti­ate from a marijuana high.

    now the ques­tion is what do i do with the other 15 grams of the shit? i’ve already tried selling some but im having a hard time just break­ing even on each bag. I already have about 4 grams open and hon­estly I don’t feel like its a good idea for me to smoke anymore than what i have already opened in my life­time.

    I am very pas­sion­ate about per­sonal rights/​freedoms, but this stuff is a little too scary for me(mainly the “with­drawel symp­toms” I’ve been having) I don’t think it should be illegal, its just not some­thing that I handle well per­son­ally. I feel like it should be reg­u­lated and openly sold for smoking, this way they could suggest dosing on the package rather than leaving it up to the user to “abuse” the drug. of course this is a perfect world and once they make this stuff illegal, in reality it will never, ever not a chance in hell be “FDA approved”.

    I am proud to be an Amer­ican, but our government(and pretty much every other gov­ern­ment) sure does like to fuck everything up for every­one but them­selves.

  27. Nick says:

    To the web­mas­ter — please keep my anonym­ity if anyone comes inquir­ing. I’m now a target.

  28. Nick says:

    So what I am hearing from #375 is that this very THING results from simply over­dos­ing????

    #374 — yes, you are going through a com­bined with­drawal that is best described as that drug induced anxiety dis­order. Anxiety patients don’t realize it, but they can undo their own anxiety from flaring up if they simply engage in some exer­cises. All schools of thought re: anxiety will tell you that one of the biggest symp­toms is that you just can’t focus — your mind will wander.

    I want you to take that body scan med­it­a­tion I linked and do your­self an honest one. I’m not a meditation/​yoga guy, but since encoun­ter­ing this have bitten my tongue and THANKED GOD. I guar­an­tee you that if you try it, within 2 min into you will be ABLE to relax again and you will thank the nar­rator, me, God, Gornesh, Buddha, or whomever else you deem neces­sary. But, def do it man. Drink some chamo­mile tea before. Really sit down like you’re imit­at­ing a guru or some­thing, Indian-style, and breathe deep for 10 seconds. In, then out. Focus on nothing but your breath­ing. When your mind wanders, work it back. I have to tell you: you have a LOT of stress in your life. Part of the reason you smoked this stuff was that: be honest to your­self. You need to learn to manage your stress and reduce your anxiety. Most people do not under­stand this is how EVERY human is. No one is super­man. People just don’t know because others aren’t open about their feel­ings, gen­er­ally.

    We can lie and say this drug was recre­ational, but we were all escap­ing some­thing. The with­drawal gets aggrav­ated by those bad factors (remem­ber, any­thing that adds to you anxiety will make this with­drawal 10x worse).

    Pretend you’re a fragile egg­shell for the next 2 months because if your body’s shiv­er­ing, internal unrest didn’t make that clear — you truly are. Take care of your­self bud. Please report back. More inform­a­tion will do us all a service.

    As for me, I managed to sleep after only posting what I did above. For me, it was an elation finally fin­ger­ing this. I am so glad most of you have finally the tools you need to realize that life is pre­cious. I know I do. I so do.

    Today, I woke up feeling neutral, truly neutral. Not groggy, not sad, not happy, just unre­mark­able. After about 30 min, the stuffy feeling in the head came back along with slight agit­a­tion. I imme­di­ately went to drink some liquids and that helped fix some of the agit­a­tion. NOTE: hunger/​need to go to bathroom/​thirst usually aggrav­ates my dates sub­con­sciously (girls don’t realize how catty they can get in those instances until they’re fed and all of a sudden the mood swings back — sorry ladies, it’s true). There­fore, it must be an anxiety indu­cing factor. This may be why some people simply report drink­ing water helps the symp­toms. I’ve noticed, too, that my regular signals for hunger and thirst are messed up. I can go nearly the entire day without real­iz­ing I’m hungry before I phys­ic­ally feel nauseas from it.


  29. you have to admit, the stuff IS a little scary says:

    on a side note, does anyone with other drug exper­i­ence feel like this drug has more in common with cocaine than it does marijuana?

    cocaine would make me feel exactly the way i do now the day after i quit using, minus the heart symp­toms. it could be pos­sible that the same chemial over­load that cause cocaine with­drawel is also respons­ible for with­drawel from jwh 018.

    i never thought I would find myself bashing a drug made to be so simular to marijuana, but the proof is in my exper­i­ence. I’m having these symp­toms after just a week of use.

    on another note, I dont feel like th epeople man­u­fac­tur­ing these chem­ic­als should be thrown in jail. what theyre doing is not a whole lot dif­fer­ent than what most phar­macuet­ical com­pan­ies are doing. when bayer created heroin, they sold it to the public knowing it had serious side effects(at least the people who make jwh 018 dont know what theside effects are, rather than knowing theyre ter­rible and still selling it). once it was made illegal, what did they do? change the formula! sound famil­iar?

  30. Nick says:

    378, that is pre­cisely what the man­u­fac­tur­ers are doing. The DEA has now banned K2/​Spice in many states in the US. So, the man­u­fac­tur­ers come out with a “new” K2 they can sell in the state. As of current, there are vari­ants on these drugs: jwh-018, jwh-081, jwh-073, rc-3, rc-8, jwh-250, the CPs, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. They simply vary the formula yet have NO clue what it does to people. They profit, dis­claim that it’s not for HUMANORANIMAL CON­SUMP­TION, and then think that’s ok. In America, you can’t put toxic liquids in a Koolaid bottle then claim inno­cence based on the unknown con­sequences of that par­tic­u­lar batch. Anyway, this dis­cus­sion should center on the health effects of these drugs as that is more import­ant. If the JWH man­u­fac­tur­ers don’t want to go to jail, then they should read what I, a lawyer have to say:


  31. Nick says:

    Guys, I want you to know it’s over. I received assur­ance that the ban will be coun­try­wide next month by a rep­res­ent­at­ive of the DEA. I am making sure that all vari­ants are outed too.


  32. ocelot3208 says:

    well all i got to say is that if they leg­al­ized can­nabis we wouldn’t even be having this dis­cus­sion in fact America’s crime rate would plummet so if we stopped bick­er­ing about legal crap and worried about leg­al­iz­ing the real stuff it would prob­ably already be legal and every­one would have a nice day 🙂

  33. Popa Spice says:

    I have been using on a daily basis since the middle of Septem­ber. I smoke about 1 gram per day. I have only smoked 1 12 grams that was bought in a store. The rest I have made myself. I use Marsh­mal­low Leaf, Damiana, Mullein and Mugwort in equal por­tions as a sub­strate. I use ever clear to dis­solve the RC. I have used JWH-018 and 073. My blends have been in the 15 to 20 mg/​1 g of sub­strate. Just a little over the 10mg/​1g “Recom­men­ded Dose” when smoked on a sub­strate. I have not stopped smoking for any length of time. I have only had one bad time and I really can’t call it a bad time. It felt more like the first smoke of MJ after not smoking for awhile, a little para­noid. Again this was only one time in daily use since Septem­ber. I do get a little testee when I haven’t had any in a while if I had some earlier in the day. I’m not testee if I wait till later in the day for my first smoke. This is really no dif­fer­ent for me than with MJ. I, with the excep­tion of the RC itself, know what is in my mix. Store bought, not so much. I also wonder if there could be some side effects from the herb mater­ial used in the sub­strate. It could also be a bad reac­tion to acetone. When I got my first sample, I used acetone and laced tobacco. It was good but made my hands wet and clammy/​sticky. I am not going to bash anyone or any­thing on this board as I have not exper­i­enced the same things others have. I do know we are all dif­fer­ent. I can’t drink much alcohol as it upsets my stomach, some don’t have that problem. Some can’t smoke MJ as it makes them fall asleep, etc. etc. As with MJ, we will never know what these RCs can and can’t do unless they are Inde­pend­ently researched. It is said that there may be a pos­it­ive link with Alzheimer’s and RCs. I do know that I have been remem­ber­ing things that I have not been able to recall for years. I had a trau­matic head injury at 14, I am now 47 and can remem­ber things pre acci­dent. I also have chronic back and joint pain from years in the Army Infantry that is relieved by the use of MJ and these RCs. It would be nice if the Gov­ern­ment, instead of banning these RCs as a Class 1, would find out, Inde­pend­ently, what these things can or can’t do…

  34. you have to admit, the stuff IS pretty scary says:

    that was exactly my point. the phar­macuet­ical com­pan­ies are guilty of the same thing you’re accus­ing these research labs of. Morally anyways. maybe not legally the same but morally they’re just as wrong.

    per­son­ally I don’t have any­thing against them.

  35. Nick says:

    Popa Spice, you make a very good point. I will take your story with me. You deserve more. Thank you for serving our country. I have made it a firm point that the reason that I ended up in my situ­ation (and why this drug is par­tic­u­larly dan­ger­ous) IS PRE­CISELY the current state of drug schedul­ing laws and guidelines.

    It is time the DEA re-examined its policies and polit­ics and put people’s safety before eco­nom­ics. We don’t just have to talk about costs of health care: what about the laws that are killing us?

    If proper these are truly RESEARCH CHEM­IC­ALS (which they’re not), then let’s treat them as such: keep them out of reach of the general popu­lace until further is known. People like you should be able to sign up for clin­ical trials.

  36. Nick says:

    Popa, one more thing, sir. Please stop using these drugs because, while I under­stand you may be deeming thera­peutic feel­ings at the moment, reality may be some­thing else.
    I highly suggest you stop for one day or two and witness the symp­toms of with­drawal your­self. You will see they are severe. Then please come back and tell us if you did that and how you are feeling so we can be edu­cated as to your exper­i­ence as well. Thank you.

  37. Popa Spice says:

    Nick, I plan on doing just that. There is another small benefit that I have exper­i­enced, however it prob­ably has more to do with the sub­strate than the RC, I cough up small tight balls of phlem. I have always had lung issues, hidden from the Army so I could serve, so I am cau­tious with what I smoke, yea stupid huh. Anyway, it does help as an expect­or­ant but as I said its prob­ably the herbs…

  38. TeenageSWIM says:

    Well guys I’m back. I have a short story to tell.

    I went to college and the blends were much readily avail­able. Need­less to say I started smoking a 1 – 1.5 grams every day of the blend. It’s one of the stronger blends, so I’m think­ing it has some­where between 60 – 80mg of JWH per gram.

    My buddy and I both smoked 3gs every day together for 6 weeks before he started getting sick. I was aware of the poten­tial signs since I’ve posted on here pre­vi­ously so we started watch­ing out.
    A week later I started becom­ing sick.

    I really don’t think I was smoking JWH-018 though, maybe one of its more devious coun­ter­parts, because I have been smoking a dif­fer­ent blend which I know for a fact has JWH-018 in it and I didn’tget sick before (but I didn’t smoke as after, prob­ably about every day with 2 – 5 days break in between, but some­times I’d smoke every day for a week or two).

    Anyway the symp­toms included:

    -Nausea espe­cially in the morning, vomited once nothing but vile.
    -Loss of appet­ite unless smoking, but even then it’s gone away.
    -The high of the blend I started smoking at the school (the one that made me sick) it felt dirty. But even­tu­ally I got used to it and forgot about it, until later when I smoked my old blend at home.
    -Night sweats. And I don’t just mean like a little bit of sweat, I mean DRENCHED. This has happened about 4 times.
    -Diarrhea, gassy bloaty,

    Anyway, all I know is, there is a can­nibin­oid out there that makes me sick, and really fast too, we didn’t even smoke that fre­quently and I was getting sick without even abstain­ing from smoking, (so it wasn’t with­drawal yet). And there is another can­nibin­oid out there that I can smoke on a regular basis and be com­pletely fine.

    But I’m not going to take that chance. The poten­tial for abuse for these products are too strong for me (only with regular use, if I use it once every 2 – 3 days then it’s no big deal, but if I smoke once every day for just two days, I’m usually already hooked on a pattern and it’s hard to stop)
    I’m switch­ing back to MJ, but I could see myself feeling like going for a trip and buying some blend once few months or so.

    I’m going on vaca­tion soon for 10 days so that will keep me away from being too tempted to buy them. After just a few days of not smoking for me, I’m just not inter­ested in it much anymore. It doesn’t take long, so by 10 days I shouldn’t even be think­ing about it, (except for MJ).

    I feel sorry for Nick who smoked 3gs of pure JWH-018 in a week.. I can only imagine how hor­rible your with­draw­als are. Hang in there man.
    I’m already upset by the occa­sional nausea that I’m getting.

    Insom­nia was never an issue with me because of when I smoked. When I first started smoking, I would pur­posely smoke before bed for a great night sleep, but then when I got off, I had bad insom­nia for a day or two. So, after that even though I smoked pretty much every day, I never smoked around bedtime so I still fell asleep on my own, so insom­nia has not been one of my with­drawal symp­toms.

    The worst of the with­drawal symp­toms in my opinion is the boredom, the antsy fidgty. I was attrac­ted to this because it chills me out. I have severe GAD and ADHD, and this was just an answer to my prayers as I’m sure some of you can imagine.

    So when I get off it just gets worse and I get so bored, which makes me drink alcohol or wanna do some­thing else to get messed up.

    Anyway, for those of you that are think­ing about smoking this stuff. I feel that it’s fine in mod­er­a­tion. If you know your­self, and know you can’t mod­er­ate or dis­cip­line your­self ‚then this stuff isn’t for you.
    I smoked this stuff for 8 months without a single problem because I had a 2 – 5 day break between 2 – 7 days of every day smoking. But after just 2.5−3 months of smoking it every day (and a dif­fer­ent blend so you can never be sure what it was) I started getting really sick.

    Has anyone else had a con­ges­ted cough? I’ve had a cough for about 2 months now. I cough up brown-tannish-grey stuff. Mom thinks I have bron­chitis?

    Anyway that’s it for now. I’ll be check­ing in.

  39. Nick says:

    The black/​brownish stuff is BLOOD. This stuff causes serious lung damage (and can put holes in your lungs!) This stuff is not POT! Guys, please, how can I tell you any better? It’s like smoking AJAX. It might get you high, but for the life of me: tell me how smoking bleach is a good idea?

    Teenage, please see a doctor. Tell him the truth 100%. Don’t lie to your doctor. If you have to, tell your mom what you did: you wanted to be legal and this hurt you. Mom WILL NEVER HATE YOU, Teenage. You’re young, you will be fine. Please be more careful in the future. You are lucky you learned your lesson early.

    At this very moment I am re-examin­ing my faith. Could it be that my Cell Bio and Neur­os­cience back­ground, my ability to influ­ence politi­cians, and me being put in this situ­ation have been pre-destined?

    I know every time I read someone has stopped this drug I say a little thanks. I say it because I am still feeling the agony as I write this. I am an oth­er­wise very healthy guy with a lot going for me, this has caused me sig­ni­fic­ant harm. Don’t let me be you.

  40. TeenageSWIM says:

    Well, it’s not blood. It’s more greyish black, my descrip­tion wasn’t very good. I’m sus­pect­ing its the resin being coughed up.. I am already not touch­ing this stuff ever again.
    I told my mom what I was cough­ing up, I even showed it to her in a napkin. My mom is a prac­ti­cing MD (for 23 years) and said it wasn’t blood but it looked like I had a virus of some sort.
    Does it mean 100% it wasn’t blood? No, but I just don’t think it was.

    My parents are aware of me smoking this, and my mom is also aware of the side effects.

    Nick have you been to the doctor? Did they say you have holes in your lungs?

    Other than the cough­ing, my lungs have remained feeling normal to me. I am a com­pet­it­ive athlete and train 2x a day (cardio and weights), while my breath­ing is labored from smoking (after all thats to be expec­ted when you do it), it’s nothing i haven’t exper­i­enced from just mj.

    I’ll prob­ably go see a doctor soon. I just got some blood work done, I have to get it every few months, so it’d be inter­est­ing to see if maybe smoking did any­thing to my cho­les­terol, blood pres­sure, etc. I’m sure it has, plus going away to college and eating crappy foods..

    My exper­i­ence with this is still mostly pleas­ant. I’m not scared, upset, or pan­ick­ing or any­thing. I feel sorry for those of you who have been affected so deeply it’s des­troy­ing your every waking moment ( or at least thats how some of you guys are describ­ing it).
    My friend quit a week ago because he has MJ handy when the crav­ings come, I unfor­tu­nately don’t, so I gave in and bought this week. But as I said yes­ter­day, start­ing later today, I will have Mary j handy, then I will go on vaca­tion where I will cease smoking for 10 days and that should do it for me. I shouldn’t be think­ing about this stuff at all.

    The reason why is because, once I cease smoking, I even­tu­ally forget what it feels like to be high, so I forget how pleas­ant it is, so then I forget how much I like it and thus I become not very inter­ested in smoking anymore.

    Oh and 98% of the time the phlegm that comes up from my cough­ing looks like regular phlegm (clear, yel­low­ish) but some­times its black-grey color. Either way, I’ll know for sure the cough­ing is from smoking this stuff if it goes away after a while.

    I think the only part I really hate the most about this is the money wasted. I wasted a lot of money, and I’m a college student.
    I blew through roughly 1500 this semester. No doubt 70% of it on these blends. It’s the lack of control that I don’t like. With MJ, I can say no. It’s easy. Not even hard. I can take a hit and get up and walk away without wor­ry­ing about it.
    This stuff you always want to re-dose, and if you don’t it bugs you so much until you do.

    Anyway I’ll tell people the truth. If they want to try these blends, sure they’re fun, but you’d better be careful because there’s a very thin line between an occa­sional smoker and a daily JWHead.

    My grades have also def­in­itely suffered from this. I was doing fine in school at first when I smoked only once or twice a day. But when I met my buddy, we both just had a smoking synergy. So 1 – 2x a day quickly went to 4 – 6x a day average.

    Because of that, I’d ignore study­ing (obvi­ously), skip­ping class when pos­sible.
    Need­less to say, because of this, I have to retake a class and my GPA will prob­ably be 2.0 if I’m lucky.

    Anyway, because of the money, the grades, and the sudden recent symp­toms that my friend and I both said enough was enough. We had tried to say enough was enough before but next thing I knew, he’d be saying, “let’s go smoke!” and of course I wouldn’t argue.
    Anyway, he had enough when he started throw­ing up almost every morning. I wanted to stop for Thanks­giv­ing break but now I know today is my first offi­cial day.

    If I get sick from smoking, I have no problem telling my parents. I am not telling them about my grades and money prob­lems though.
    I might as well just shoot myself in the head. 🙂

    The only thing going for me right now is the fact that I’m a fresh­man so I have room to screw up right now, but I really had planned on start­ing college strong. Well, hope­fully this upcom­ing semester.

    I’ll be in touch.

  41. It F'd me up!!!Please hear this! says:

    Just wanted to say, I am not tar­get­ing anyone.…I am glad to see all of the sug­ges­tions and “people dia­gnosis”. It all helps out. The only reason I KNOW that the with­drawl and over­dose are dif­fer­ent, is because of my friends exper­i­ences as well as mine. I have friends in the Navy that smoke this stuff like its going out of style( 6 – 10 times a day), but then end up going on deploy­ment where they can’t touch it for 3 to 6 months at a time. Nothing has happened to any of them yet. (and I say yet cuz I preach to them that it will)! I smoked it for 8 months with no prob­lems and then OVER­DOSED! I knew I smoked too much when I did it. Not saying some with­drawl cases aren’t or can’t be extreme, but I think the over­dose cases are the most extreme, and can be fatal.

  42. Nick says:

    Hello every­one, I am back and want you to know that I will be coming back to update you all on my pro­gress and details so that we can have a pos­it­ive com­ment­ary about this. First of all, let me just make it clear that the DEA is banning K2 and SPICE NATION­WIDE by next month. I have noti­fied many people that the problem with this is that there is WITH­DRAWAL SYN­DROME and that the DEA doesn’t realize the pre­val­ence of this stuff. Lit­er­ally, it’s on EVERY campus. What the DEA is doing is effect­ively putting mil­lions of kids into this with­drawal without edu­cat­ing them.

    I am doing my best to use my con­tacts to get in touch with all parts of gov­ern­ment to make sure I can get the message out.

    #389 — it could very well be the resin as the resin is black­ish as well. I should be careful to watch my lan­guage, I think I scared you when I’m trying to be as honest as pos­sible. I apo­lo­gize. You CAN have the poten­tial to damage your lungs and put holes in them by smoking almost pretty much any­thing. I’m not saying this is the case with you. I have not had my lungs checked besides for an x-ray. I am still worried about poten­tial long term effects given that I ignored ALL other warn­ings and the biggest one that I did heed (but didn’t care about) was the car­ci­no­gen one.

    Guys, some addi­tional tips for hand­ling the with­drawal that I thought I’d share:
    -Your body has lost its ability to tell when it’s sleepy, thirsty, hungry, etc. Each of these lacking will add to the anxiety syn­drome you are feeling. So, make a sched­ule for:
    (1) drink­ing water (ser­i­ously, have a glass about every hour and a half);
    (2) eating bene­fi­cial things heavy in anti­ox­id­ants (think detox detox detox). I go for 2 meals which is a reduced eating sched­ule. The Muscle Milk stuff is good cause you can down it like a drink. My appet­ite (day 7) is nor­mal­iz­ing some­what more; and
    (3) exer­cising (cardio will get you sweat­ing that stuff out).

    I have a theory that maybe if I smoke the tiniest bit of marijuana, I might be able to solve my with­drawal symp­toms for a while. That being because THC (and the 12 other agon­ists) are partial and they stay in your system for longer. Basic­ally, you have a weak stim­u­lator rubbing on that thirsty/​hungry CB1/CB2 receptor. I highly suggest nobody does this until I come back from con­sult­ing a few of these research­ers and doctors. I don’t want to put anyone in MORE HARM. BTW, for every­one going through this: there is light at the end of the tunnel. We will fight together!

    I will keep an hourly log tomor­row and post that for every­one so you can see some detail.

  43. Thought I was gonna die says:

    I took a 14 bar(or a peach) of xanax and it took the panic/​anxiety away imme­di­ately. I’ve smoked marijuana and it tends to do the trick also.…Feel like its only a matter of time till I forget it ever happened! 3 weeks after the fact!

  44. you have to admit, it IS kind of scary says:

    well i would have to say marijuana would definately help these symp­toms based on LOTS of past exper­i­ence with smoking it.

    on another note, alcohol works great to nullify the anxiety/​heart symp­toms. i could only imagine marijuana would work better, but i have to pass a drug test so cant exper­i­ment.

    i’ve reduced my spice blend smoking now to once per night down from 4 times daily and while i am having with­drawel symp­toms, theyre fairly mild

  45. Garret says:

    Hi Nick
    I smoked low grade hash and weed for about 6 months. About 1 – 2 joints per night a few times a week. A friend told me try this stuff when I could not find any weed. I tried a few brands(Spice Gold, SmokeXXX, Spice Diamond, Smoke Plus and some other brand; I can’t think of it’s name). I only smoked a couple of joints from each of the brands, most of the time taking only fews hits per joint. I had a very bad exper­i­ence the last time I smoked this stuff(only two hits from the joint). I feel that I have ruined my life.
    I was a little depressed when I was smoking this stuff, that did help. I just don’t feel 100% and it has been over a year. I have cob-web eye float­ers in my vision, which I never had. They just poped up. Is this because of the anxiety? The fol­low­ing day, after the bad exper­i­ence, I just felt I had done serious damage and became a hypo­chon­driac type person. It’s was like as if the stuff took over my mind. I taught I could hear hissing in my head. I just feel as I wil be para­noid about my heath for the rest of my life. Things would not be so bad if I had less depres­sion and anxiety. The major eye float­ers are making everything worse(more anxious and depressed). Will I ever return to myself? And will the eye flaoters dis­sip­ate. Are the eye heightened aware­ness of the eye float­ers caused by HPPD or the anxiety?
    Please help


  46. Garret says:

    Hi Nick
    If I just heard from some­body that used this stuff and returned to normal I would feel great. I worry that this may never lift. Nick, were the black spots you saw eye float­ers?
    Please post soon

  47. Bama420 says:

    I must be bul­let­proof! I have smoked 1oo mg of pure JWH 018 in 4 hours and just keep enjoy­ing the rushes you guys refer to as anxiety. If you cannot handle it, its like alcohol, i know a ton of people that cannot handle that without flip­ping out, leave it alone and quit wasting your time com­plain­ing. Get a poster and stand outside the DEA headquar­ters and protest for God’s sake! You are buying unpur­i­fied BS from the wrong sup­plier! I hope I at least shut one of you dumb asses up!

  48. Brutally Honest says:

    Bama420.…You are what I like to refer to as “A FULL BLOWN IDIOT” If I was mean, I would wish it upon YOU.….but I’m not mean…just honest! Keep smoking high amounts and see what happens, or you could QUIT right now and savor what brain cells u have left!

  49. TeenageSWIM says:

    I’ve been smoking strictly MJ. I’ve had no with­draw­als as I thought I wouldn’t (I already got symp­toms while i was smoking, no real with­draw­als really).
    No prob­lems sleep­ing or eating. I’m not going to be smoking at all for the next few days until at least Friday. We’ll see what happens?

  50. Garret says:

    I am still waiting for the log Nick. I hope you have not changed your mind.

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