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JWH-018, Spice & Me

By John Clarke

The Spice smoking mixture range has been one of the most popular “herbal” smokes ever, and now it’s no suprise why.

To get an idea of just how popular these mixtures are, just take a look at this data from Google’s keyword tool:

That’s over 37,000 searches a month for these three search terms alone – Spice is definitely a customer favourite. I also get no less than 500 emails a day from Russia asking if I can ship it there by the kilo. So what’s behind it all?

This paper [PDF; 246 kB] has some interesting things to say. It turns out that the Spice blends all contain JWH-018 as well as two compounds based on CP 47497 – all of them synthetic cannabinoids. These are man made chemicals designed to tickle the same receptors as THC, the active compound in cannabis, so it’s no wonder these smoking mixtures are so powerful. The difference in potency between the Spice blends appears to be accounted for by increasing levels of these CP 47497 homologues.


Since this discovery, Spice has been banned in several countries, including Austria and Germany. The BBC also reported on it and had the following to say:

The UK drugs regulator, the Medicine and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), is understood to have identified JWH018 in products available in the UK. It is currently in order to determine whether or not it should be classified as a medicinal product – which would mean it should only be available from a doctor.

The UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the government on whether a drug should be made illegal, is also aware of the substance, and is investigating it.

The Spice manufacturers make no mention of these synthetics on their packaging, so a lot of herb-enthusiasts feel somewhat betrayed. Rightly so, I suppose – not being told just what you’re smoking exactly. People have the choice to put things in their body and some Spice smokers might make a different decision if they had all the facts in hand.

But, why?

The typical reaction to this news seems to be the disgust about putting any of these “unsafe” man-made compounds into their body, as though mother nature was some kind of safety net. “These plants have thousands of years of safe use”, they say! But let’s take a closer look…

Take Kratom, for instance. Kratom contains a powerful compound called mitragynine, which acts upon the opioid receptors; the same targets for opium and its derivatives. One alkaloid in kratom, although present in much smaller quantities, is 7-hydroxymitragynine, which is apparently 17x more potent than morphine! While I wouldn’t call this plant harmful, compared to other drugs like cocaine and heroin, it wouldn’t say it was harmless either. The opioid receptors are a dangerous set of receptors to be messing with – the mu subtype responsible for the classic euphoria that accompanies opiate use also stops you breathing if you tickle them too much. Opiates are also addictive, just like kratom can be if you take too much. While this plant may have seen thousands of years of responsible, moderate use, this is no reassurance at all towards its safety.

Now days, people generally don’t toil in the field every day that Newton sends – we have more free time and money to spend than ever before. We can now afford to use large quantities of kratom every day, as well as other entheogens from around the world, but we don’t have any information about this level of exposure to kratom itself or in combination with other stuff. For all we know, taking a mixture of kratom and Salvia divinorum daily could make your eyeballs explode after day 300, or chronic kratom use might give you some kind of evil superpower. Looking at paracetamol as a rather boring example, if you take the odd one every now and then, you’ll be fine, but if you take 8 pills a day every day for a year, you’ll likely end up with some serious condition. There’s also the fact that modern chemistry can create powerful extracts of these entheogens. Who’s to say they’re safe, just because they come from a plant? And what about any other drugs we might be on? Being on a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor like Prozac for depression isn’t uncommon in today’s society – combine them with the “perfectly safe” Banisteriopsis caapi vine, itself a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and you have a potentially fatal combination of drugs in your system. I bet there are many more contraindications we haven’t even considered.

What about plants like cannabis and tobacco? They’ve also been used responsibly for thousands of years, but it’s only when so many people start to take these things that we realised “Actually, smoking is bad for us”. Besides, our current medical knowledge means we’ve only recently been able to diagnose these kind of things. I’m not sure I want to trust any data from a period when epilepsy might have been down to a demonic possession. How many adverse health effects could we identify in these ancient entheogen users based on what we know today?

So, while we can be uncertain of the long term effects on health of JWH-018 and friends, it seems we can’t actually be certain about the safety of most of the things we happily consume. Yes, they may turn out to be super toxic (although probably not, if they’re given to lab rats), but at least they only act on your cannabinoid receptors. Kratom tends to be prepared as a tea – once you’ve drunk it, you’ve drunk it. If you’ve taken too much, you’ll realise when its already in your blood. It would be much harder to overdose on these synthetics due to the speed at which they get in your system – if you’re too stoned, you won’t want to smoke any more, never mind being physically able to. The cannabinoid receptors they target are also much safter than the opioid targets of kratom. Cannabinoid receptors seem play a modulatory role, rather than being majorly important, so messing with them doesn’t have as drastic an effect. Smoking too much might make you feel a bit sick and dizzy for a while, but you certainly won’t stop breathing.

In all, I think Spice is in the wrong for not making this clear in the first place, but then I’m not suprised they didn’t want to list these compounds in the current political climate. Maybe when the government realises that it is our right to put things into our own bodies, listing these ingredients wouldn’t be an issue.

Even with this new information however, I’ll still be using the stuff. It’s great!.

465 Responses to JWH-018, Spice & Me

  1. justin says:

    I’ve been reading over some of this stuff and i relate to a lot of it. I smoked synthetic smoking blends for 6 months and had a really bad anxiety attack the last time i smoked. After i stopped, about a week later, i kept having these sort of flashbacks to it where i felt really high again without even smoking. For the next month and a half i was really fucked up- internal unrest, anxiety, trouble sleeping, blurred vision and depth perception problems, and an inability to think clearly. These have been gettting much better with time. Its been four months now and the only symptoms that really remain is the blurred vision and a sort of dissociation depersonalization, but its hard to describe . It seems that my vision is blurry for long distances and i have to redjust my eyes to see objects far away clearly. Also, some of the other symptoms pop back up every once in a while but much more mildly and never more than once or twice a week. I’m just getting really concerned because i dont know if i will ever recover 100%. I cant believe this shit is lasting four months. If someone has fully recovered please share or if anyone can shed any light on this please let me know!

  2. dave says:

    hi justin, i’m cool now .took 6 months . think it triggered an anxiety disorder , keep telling yourself thats what it is and you’ll be fine. some people are getting a bad reaction to this chemical ,whatever is being said on this forum. cheers dave

  3. alanh79 says:

    @ x1: Thanks!

    The JWH Class of RCs is certainly strange. I suspect that because of its purity, and other factors, jwh might potentially exacerbate pre-existing mental illnesses. For this alone, it might end up being demonized by the media and/or general public. However, I myself found jwh to be powerfully sedating. Along with gustatory (taste) hallucinations, I also experienced olfactory (smell) ones, as well.

    I’m 240 pounds, grew up in the 60’s and 70’s, and have had multiple, varied, powerful, and often lengthy drug experiences. My favorite bud is a tie between Thai bud and Panama Red. Kona Gold has always made me sleepy to the point of taking a nap. JWH seems a lot like Kona to me, in that I get quite sleepy and sedated.

    I’ve been a US Army Medical Laboratory Specialist (Drugs of Abuse Testing, Radioimmunoassay, and Clinical Toxicology), a nurse (nursing home Night Charge Nurse, and Drug/Alcohol Detox/Treatment Nurse), and an Emergency Medical Technician, but in high school in the 70’s I was both the biggest science nerd and the biggest hippy, so decided I’d catalogue the drug spectrum.

    Never was able to procure pure THC, but oddly, I’m not sure it’s the component in pot I like most. Seems like the newer hybrids with their extremely high THC content simply aren’t as good as I grew up with. In the 70’s, I was smoking African bhanji, Afghani Black, Cambodian Red, Colombian Gold, Thai sticks and bud, Kush, Kona Gold, Maui Wowie, etc, and I must say the old stuff was better than the bud out nowadays. Anyway, I digress.

    So I tried 18 and 73 together, and it seemed mellower than jwh-018 alone. I take rather large doses and noticed that after three weeks, my tolerance is way up. 2g altogether (by myself) last week alone! Yikes! Taking a couple weeks off. Have been somewhat dull-minded and slightly forgetful since trying jwhXXX. I also have noticed that Amotivational Syndrome is very strong with JWH– it’s a powerful procrastination chem.

    Anyone have any Telepathic or extrasensory effects?

  4. pinky says:

    Hi guys…

    I too had a very bad experience with legal herbs.

    A friend passed away and I was really depressed one day. I thought I’d go to the shop and try some of the legal herbs. I’d only ever smoked weed 3 x and had a cruisy, good time.

    I was just so depressed though and thought I’d try something new, something innocent.

    I wanted to smoke it on my own and just relax…so I purchased what was called ”Haze”. It’s very similar to Spice. I honestly thought I probably wouldn’t feel much from it.

    I went home and put a tiny sprinkle in with my tabacco…went down stairs and lit it up. I instantly felt it, and had a couple of drags and then went back upstairs.

    As I got to the top of the stairs, I noticed my heart beating pretty quick…but thought not much of it as i’d just walked up stairs…it obviously goes faster.

    as I went inside…I started to feel faint. I had some water. My heart rate went back down. I sat for a sec, but then it sped back up…it was going REALLY fast. I was petrified. I started to feel so faint and was scared I was going to die alone…as noone was home + I was away from home. I was so scared.

    I waited a bit…called 911 as my heart was racing so fast.

    When they got there, it was going 167bpm. They said that my heart will be fine, that I was just freaking and I will be OK. They took me into hospital and did a ECG…everything was fine. They waited until my heart calmed down and let me go home.

    I went to sleep and felt 100% normal the next day…just a little tired.

    I felt fine for the weeks afterwards but…

    5 weeks later, I got sudden dizziness one morning and my heart started racing again…this time about 140bpm. It gradually slowed down…but since then, I had a number of crazy attacks.

    It was insane. I’m still working through it…6 months later. I just found it weird that I felt fine until 5 weeks after the experience? I thought maybe it was actually seperate things going on…I though I’d caught a virus or something and having a fever…as I was travelling at the time.

    I had to see a cardiologist, he said my heart was fine and did a number of tests. He said I may have SVT (something your born with) and that the drug sort of triggered it to set off.

    I have been to ER three times in the last 6 months, with severe palpatations….heart peaking at 160 and higher bpm during these attacks. I know that it’s most likely panic….as I’ve been through a lot of stress. It’s just the dizziness that worries me, it hit me once when driving and then my heart raced shortly afterwards and I had to pull over. I wonder if the dizziness is just from my heart racing and the rush of blood? I dunno.

    I just freak out sometimes, but am getting a handle on it. I know it’s almost over.

    It helps to know your hearts fine and normal and can hack beating at 200bpm for days on end.

    I think I’m just scared that something is wrong upstairs…both physically and mentally.

    I feel normal though, and can go weeks without any symptoms, but then all of a sudden I can feel really dizzy and my heart will race. I also get depressed from this.

    I’ve noticed it keeps happening when I eat, too. I’ll get tunnel hearing for a moment and a dizzy spell, short episode of racing heart…then it goes away. It also seems relevant to my posture.

    I’ve just been drinking heaps of water and trying to relax.

    My doctor suggested 12 months of SSRI’s just to try and help out and she said I’d be back to normal after the 12 month course….I’m just not sure though if I want to hop on meds.

    I’m feeling good now + honestly think it’s all in my head. I was paranoid to begin with to be honest…and I think I just couldn’t handle what I experienced.

    I also think a good point to make is it could be post traumatic stress some people are having….the initial event was very traumatic obviously, and our mind remembers this and sometimes triggers our body to do some whacky shit in response.

    All I can say is, stay positive….and I really think people should stay far away from this shit….especially if your anxious to begin with. Just stick to actual, clean weed! Please don’t smoke these legal stupid herbs.

    I know I’ll be 100% me again, without all these annoying symptoms…and will be a stronger person at the end of it. It’s hard and I wish I never bought the crap, I had a voice in the back of my head telling me not to…fucking wish I’d listened.

    But hey, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

    ; )

  5. MauiGreenDragon says:

    alanh79 nailed it. “jwh might potentially exacerbate pre-existing mental illnesses”. Our bodies are the ultimate “chemical lab” and since each lab is unique there will be endless varied experiences.

    I have been following this thread for along time now, and it is very obvious that there is a conclusion to be observed. There exists a completely uncontrolled “lab” and “clinical” basis to pinpoint just exactly what a person can expect. There is no “placebo” or “blind” control to reference period.

    Becoming the “lab rat” is a personal choice. If you are using these substances it would be prudent to record detailed information about everything. And I mean everything. SET and SETTING, blood pressure, are you on or have been on other substances recently (a calender if you will) so the recorded record can be referenced.

    Of course this is in a perfect world or a licensed professional lab. This is not going to happen.

    You alone are responsible and there is no turning back when the journeys begin. But that is what drives people to search.

    So to all you seekers I say, choose your poison and live with it. I do hope that anyone still having problems will return to BASELINE, and the next time you go under the “glass” to be observed, attempt to find the “THRESHOLD” amount that applies to your “unique” laboratory (the wondrous human body that you are blessed to have).

    Addendum: A digital scale, notebook, pen. KEEP DETAILED ACCOUNTS. ad nauseum etc etc.

  6. justin says:

    thanks dave. i looked up panic disorders online and found it to be very similar to what i was experiencing about 3 months ago. Now it seems that i have the same symptoms just much more mild. Hopefully they will continue to decrease with time. One question though: did you seek any medical treatment or did you just deal with it yourself?

  7. dave says:

    hi justin and pinky

    no i just dealt with it myself. looking up forums on panic disorder and seeing peoples experiences matched my own. i and others seem to have the same with eating pinky. seems to be the rush of blood sugar into the system and the mind , as its anxious and on the lookout for physical “changes” , starts the panic. what you’ll find that the slightest thing like a slight stomach ache or headache or even things that are so small u barely notice can trigger panic. i felt pretty ill , but the more i read the more i learn’t how to calm myself. what you’ve forgoten is that u had anxiety to a certain degree before i bet , but might not have even noticed , u just gotta chill ! i feel for u, thats why i keep checking this forum sporadically, i wanted to see hear from someone that had been there and got better when i felt ill , i’m him !cheers dave

  8. justin says:

    thanks dave.
    you’ve been a big help. somehow just knowing its an anxiety disorder makes me feel better about the whole thing, like i’m more in control of it. just one more question: did you also feel these feelings of depersonalization? kind of like you are detached from what your doing or kind of like your dreaming. its hard to explain but was just wondering if you felt the same way and if it was your longest lasting symptom?

  9. OPENMIND says:

    SOOO… if you are a psychotic, worry wort, hypochondriac, germophobe, who beleives God is gonna end the world and satan is comin to get you because you may have had a potentially evil thought or desire to experience something new in life then dont touch this stuff or anything else fun. Please dont even think about trying these new jwh substances if you have even the slightest notion in your mind or gut that any of these substances may cause you to have to “GO TO THE DOCTOR” because consumption may make you “FEEL” different, funny, strange, light headed, happy, sad, horny, hungover, paranoid, spacey, spiritual, scared, cranky, crunk or open minded ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. It has taken the rational thinkers of this earth far too long to begin to undue and reeducate all the “misinformed” about a plant named cannabis.

  10. Garret says:

    I am checking this site also to see if I can read any positive stories. Has anyone recovered from using legal smokes. I still have anxiety and heightened awareness of eye floaters. It has been about 5 months since I have quit everything.
    The eye floaters a maybe due to anxiety and depression. Will the cob-web type eye floaters become less conscious when anxiety fades? I am just posting here again to see if I can catch more fish with same problem.

  11. dave says:

    openmind u remind me of myself a few years ago ,have fun while it lasts!
    justin, yep i did , stick with it and just start enjoying your life again, it’ll be cool , just pull yourself together !
    likewise garret , noticed everything that was going on with my body , even asked when i got my eyes tested about floaters , i’ve kickboxed at a high level for years so was paranoid about any damage , but all was normal ! get back to your life m y friend !

  12. alanh79 says:

    I stopped taking jwh last Thursday. This was after three weeks of daily, “heavy” use:
    Week one: total 1g jwh-018
    Week two: total 2g jwh-018
    Week three: total 1g jwh-018, 1g jwh-073

    Friday afternoon was noticing anxiety and depression, fairly pronounced. My digestive system started reacting– hyperactive BT, diarrhea.
    Saturday was the same. Felt somewhat like opiate withdrawal symptoms, which was strange for me– mj has never caused those symptoms when I’d smoked heavily for weeks than stopped, but merely caused a little irritability. Occasionally, my heart would start pounding, I would perspire heavily, be somewhat short of breath. Saturday night I smoked half a joint of indica, got only slightly high and noticed only a slight amelioration of symptoms. Took B-complex vitamins and potassium. Sex w/ gf was amazing… much better than when taking jwh.
    Sunday morn felt a little better. Went for a long walk in the afternoon, but lost energy, probably from fluid loss due to diarrhea. Started getting anxiety again, but depression seemed to be better.
    Monday, today, woke up early, which had not happened since starting jwh. Was more social at work instead of the somewhat zombie-like jwh state I’d been in for three weeks. Information is processing easier now, mental connections seem to be re-establishing, memory is better. This afternoon, was making jokes and laughing with co-workers again. Still having slight digestive symptoms but they are nearly resolved now.

    This experience leads me to believe that large amounts (>10-30mg PO 3x/d) over time (three weeks plus) can lead to physical addiction, in that physical withdrawal symptoms were experienced after cessation. Also, I thought quite a bit about jwh after stopping, and part of me wanted to buy more. But the strong part of me thought the idea ridiculous based on my experiences so far.

    It certainly is an odd class of RCs. The effects are both strong and subtle. The mental effects are not easy to define accurately. It wasn’t easy to remain entirely logical while under the influence, but on the other hand I noticed my intuition was much better.

    During the three weeks I told no one else that I was taking jwh. Friends who knew me best asked me if I had smoked pot. Others either asked me if I was OK or accused me of being “on drugs.” Comments I got from co-workers today (day 4 after stopping) were basically that the old me was back.

    But I’m not 100% back. I am still feeling anxiety which I calm by realizing that it’s from jwh and is getting better. Also, I can step back from the anxiety a bit and get some separation from it so I won’t feel the full brunt (an old psychonaut method).

    Is the aftermath worth what odd effects I got on jwh? I’m not so sure it is. Pot has always seemed so healing and friendly, but jwh is not very friendly, and I’m not sure about its healing potential. As a physical pain reliever, I haven’t decided where I stand. At times it seemed to cause an odd disconnect between sensory nerves and brain (can barely feel an object held in the hand, etc), but then again it seemed to make psychological pain worse. At least opiates add some euphoria to one’s pain relief.

    Pot is safer, milder, and a much better choice for me, personally.

  13. Garret says:

    Hi Dave

    Yes, I have also that negative filter. Now I notice my eye floaters all the time. Were your eye floaters pronounced and did they dissipate when the worry and anxiety went away?

  14. Frankie says:

    ive been using spice lately because i cant smoke pot… im on drug testing for court, its going to be illegal here in alabama soon. and they have been working on researching what to test for in a piss test… so like i dont really wanna go back to jail. any ideas on a time frame for whatever gets u high in spice for how long it would stay in my system?

  15. alanh79 says:

    Update: Tuesday. To combat jwh withdrawal and other symptoms like anxiety, tried GABA 250mg PO (oral dose). Stuff worked great! I was alert, happy, confident at work all day. It even seemed like I felt better than I did before I ever tried jwh-018. GABA was uplifting AND reduced my anxiety. Anyone else try GABA for anxiety aftereffects?

  16. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    Don’t forget the question about the eye floaters. Did your eye floaters come up into your vision when you were looking for stuff? I know they are harmless and they were always there. I just became conscious of them 3 months after I quit everything and they are still in my vision field. I still have the heightened awareness of them and the anxiety. I Think the anxiety would be less if I was not conscious of them all the time. Does this level out over time? I know I posted here about the same type of problems. I just need some more reassurance. Will there come a day when I am less conscious of them? I am sure the heightened awareness of the floaters are not HPPD related and I hope that I do not have some other kind of perception disorder. I do seem to have a negative filter and being on alert subconsciously. Just can’t seem to forget about them.

  17. dave says:

    Hi Garret

    I only notice them again after reading this ,ha,ha ! So yup its all anxiety . Just pull yourself together bro , get out enjoy your life,engage the world around you .
    cheers Dave

  18. Lee says:

    This is killing me. I just can’t read any more of these. There are a few intelligent people spread throughout these posts, but it seems the majority of these are written by ignorant people who don’t understand that you don’t use pure pharmaceuticals. Seriously, I understand that this may be dangerous if used in high dosages or for extended periods of time. I smoke herbal blends on a regular basis, but I keep in mind that everything is to be used in moderation. Ha Ha to the lady who’s son (or what ever relation) had a seizure, well lets think about this….He spent $750 and smoked that much. Its a wonder he didn’t die from being retarded. Anyone who over uses any drug due to lack of knowledge is beyond any sympathy for not researching it enough before hand. To, anyone who tried to “up the dose” you are the worst….I can’t even begin to explain my hatred for people with your mentality. You are the morbidly obese of the drug world. Not realizing that everything should be used in moderation; you plague the world with your mishaps until our overly invasive government has to ban it to keep you from hurting yourselves. You are like a toddler around a light socket and I, for one are getting pretty fucking tired of having people put the little plastic protector over it. So, please for the sake of anyone smart enough to handle their own lives without a government nanny to keep them safe, stop doing anything at all. In fact stop breathing, cause I’m sure you can figure out a way to overdose on it. Learn to control yourself and do some research before you fuck up everything for us, you insensitive mother fuckers.

  19. Garret says:

    Hi, Up there
    You do not know what amount of chemicals are in any batch.
    Think about it.
    Thank You.

  20. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    I want to ask you a few questions I hope you are not angry cause I am still stressed. Thanks for the information. I seem to have an anxiety disorder alright. I have this very intense negative filter, thats looking for stuff and depression, thinking that I have ruined my life. The negative filter is scanning for all the bad side effects mentioned above. I never noticed any kind of eye floaters before I smoked synthetic cannbinoids. I was worried about HPPD cause I seem to be seeing all the natural phenomena in my eyes. It’s like looking out from a different angle/perceptive that sees everything in my eyes. When I look to the sky, I am experiencing something like the following: Another common phosphene is “seeing stars,” from a sneeze, a heavy and deep cough, blowing of the nose, a blow on the head or low blood pressure (such as on standing up too quickly or prior to fainting). It is possible these involve some mechanical stimulation of the retina, but they may also involve mechanical and metabolic stimulation of neurons of the visual cortex or of other parts of the visual system. Or are these just cells darting around? Am I seeing this stuff cause I had read that synthectic cannbinoids were reported to have caused HPPD in some users. When I heard about a guy who has kidney problems the negative filter is on my kidneys and this starts more panic. I also seem to think that the normal level of noise in my head is a bit louder than what it used to be, I think I am hearing a very low sizzeling noise. Am I hearing this cause I read up on tinnitus or is the anxiety causing it Did you experience all this stuff? Did the visual stuff dissipate when the anxiety levels dropped? Is this all psychosomatic, I wish I could close the door in what I am seeing. It’s been 5 months since I stopped smoking this stuff. Did you only see the floaters or more after the trauma.
    I never new I had them.
    In the meantime I will try be conscious of them*

  21. OneDayAtATime says:

    SWIM wanted to report back. It has been about 2 months since SWIM had his first episode. Still not back to normal, far from it… BUT SWIM reports being much better than originally. SWIM has now seen a few doctors, a psychiatrist, scoured the internet for information, and read some books. SWIM’s experience has been up and down. SWIM was put on medications from doctors, some which helped, others which made the situation worse and caused SWIM to have a complete mental/physical break down. SWIM then decided to no longer take any of the medication as SWIM felt it was causing more problems rather than fixing the previous ones. SWIM believes everyone is different so medications may work for you, or may not. That is for you to decide.

    SWIM now has a form of panic/anxiety disorder. This was directly tied to the consumption of the commercial products Spike99 Ultra mixed with Mojo (plant material coated with synthetic cannabinoids). Before this SWIM never had any problems like these and was completely normal and functioned daily without issue.

    Anyways, the symptoms SWIM has experienced off and on for the past 2 months have included. Extreme anxiety, dizziness, difficulties in visual focusing, chest tightness, strong awareness of heart beating, diarrhea, a worry of losing control and going insane, mild insomnia, on rare occasions shaking/tremors. These are all symptoms of panic disorder.

    SWIM loves to read posts from people that think these symptoms are made up. SWIM can only say, wait until it happens to you or someone you know. Feelings and emotions then change quickly. SWIM says it is not something you ever want to experience and he wishes it on no one.

    SWIM’s research has uncovered many online postings from many various websites with similar stories from both synthetic cannabinoids and from marijuana. Reports from people range from new smokers to daily smokers that just got hit with a panic attack after smoking problem free for 10 years. Most of the symptoms are the same and all point to panic/anxiety disorder.

    SWIM wants to post some links in order to help others and asks the moderator to please allow them as there is no commercial interest. The only interest is in helping others that may stumble onto this information.

    One of the sites with the most postings can be found here:

    Searching those postings with topics such as “Paranoia” and “Panic Attacks” usually have the most related information.

    The most helpful information SWIM has found through all his research is that you are not going crazy and understanding that no matter what you do during a panic attack, at some point it WILL end. Writing down what you are feeling during a panic attack and then writing down why these feelings and ideas are unrealistic helps deal with panic when it is at its worst. Breathing exercises are also very helpful. Hyperventilating is common while having a panic attack. Breathing with your stomach moving is key. SWIM originally thought this was crazy and then found out it helped dramatically. This means when you inhale make sure your stomach moves out, when you exhale make sure your stomach moves in. Some things to try during a panic attack are to take a deep breath in through your nose, then hold your breath for 5-7 seconds and exhale slowly through your mouth. Repeat this 5-10 times, often closing your eyes and envisioning a calm scenario helps with this. Another breathing technique to use in conjunction is to close your eyes and take 8-10 small breaths in rapid succession through your nose, hold for 1 second, then exhale slowly through your mouth. Do this at least 5 times, on the 6th time open your eyes and continue the breathing. After a few minutes of this SWIM says you really should notice yourself feeling better. If not keep trying. It sounds ridiculous but it works and these or similar methods are recommended by treatment centers for panic attacks all over the world.

    Treatment may work for you. Try and find out if there are places that offer CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) treatment for panic disorders.

    If there aren’t treatment centers near you there are web resources and books. A good free website that asks for NO information from you and contains NO advertisements is:

    Some excellent books SWIM recommends are:
    Mastery of Your Anxiety and Panic (4th Edition) Workbook by David H. Barlow and Michelle G. Craske
    Panic Free by Lynne Freeman
    Panic Attacks Workbook by David Carbonell

    If you find the books in the library or purchase them somewhere make sure you get the Workbook editions and not the editions that would be for a Therapist.

    Good luck to everyone and anyone going through this. SWIM will keep updating from time to time. Hopefully one update will be when SWIM no longer has these problems or at least can control them better.

  22. OPENMIND says:

    The symptoms some of you are relentlessly and continually complaining about are also known as chronic crybaby pussyitis by most men.

  23. knowlegable says:

    My friend and i have made our own jwh mixes and it turned out great just do ur research and be smart about it. There are alot of horror stories out there about this substance and I would like to put my personal experience out there.
    I bought some spice and decided to get alittle stoned be4 i went to bed. I have acid once and used to smoke alot of pot so i am used to altered states of consciousness. Ay ways I loaded a small bowl and took three hits of the spice. Within about 15 minutes i was tripping so hard i didnt have the mental capacity to remind myself that i was tripping. I wanted to fall asleep but had lots of anxiety and thought that a demon was trying to attack me from the corner of my room. Even tho i was cozy in my bed I could hear the wind and dogs barking and just general out side noise and movement behind me were there was only a wall. I thought people were climbing under my blankets and actually audible screamed from the horror of it. I got so uncomfortable that i began to throw up. I eventually fell asleep and the whole ordeal ended. I still use this stuff and smoke my own blend. From what ive gathered from all these experiences is that people only have bad experiences when they are alone or the only person at that level. This stuff is to be respected just like any other hallucenagenic. Bottom line is dont be an idiot with it, if you think u are strong enough mentally to deal with a bad trip, not a bad high a bad trip, than u have nothing to worry about. I feel that i am stronger as a person because of my bad experiences with this drug but thats just my preference. I still use and rather frivlously i might add but i always know wat i am getting into. At the temple of the oracle of delphi at the entrance was inscribed “know thyself” and that is my advice for anyone who uses this drug know thyself because if u dont this drug will thrust that knowledge upon u in waves that if u are not strong may over come u. All in all if ur scared start out slow and ull have a great time.

  24. dave says:

    Hi Garret

    That HPPD is interesting ,never heard of it . But yes along with noticing the “floaters” my vision was like being slightly stoned . At the start it was more than that , faces sometimes became distorted and scary, basically tripping i spose , that lasted a week at most . Then bright colours and slight distortions , this lasted for a month or so I seem to remember.
    Seems strange thinking back to that state of mind now . Been enjoying getting drunk (couldn’t touch alcohol for 6 months !), chilling having a laugh again , all the things i thought would never be the same again .
    Still not dared weed again though, that was a warning that this ol space cadet ain’t ignoring !
    One day had some good advice and links , look at getting better not at the things that u “think” are wrong with you , its GAD and you’ll get better , trust me .

  25. Justin says:

    Hey Dave,
    Just wondering, what were your reasons for not touching alcohol during your recovery? I am not fully better, im going on 5 months now, but have just recently started drinking again about a month ago. The alcohol doesnt seem to affect my body in a negative way, but i was just wondering because maybe the drinking is slowing down the recovery process. I even smoked weed again four or five times in the last couple weeks. It was very soothing and i did not have any ‘flashbacks’ or any paranoia. Just wondering if you think touching substances before fully recovering would in anyway prevent a full recovery/slow down the recovery? Or is it all just mental and touching substances would have nothing to do with a recovery? The only symptoms that still remain for me is the depersonalization feelings (not getting any better, its been the same for about a month and a half months). Other than that a bit of slight anxiety now and again but nothing that bad at all. Let me know what you think.

  26. averageguy says:

    My story on spice, i did it like 6 months smoked everything was fine, then stopped smoking for 6 months decided to try it again and packed a bowl of Berry Blend spice smoked it for 2 days or so and nothing major, the third day packed a bowl and took a gas mask hit. Everything was fine until 5-6 mins later my ears felt like there going numb and everything went zoned out and i had a panic attack heart was beating crazy i thought i was going to die!!!!! Relaxed and went home slept and thought ill be fine, next morning still felt like my head was in a dream state or so like i would stare and something for a long amount of time and i couldn’t control it my eyes won’t adjust to the dark like my eyes dilate but i just see floaters, still felt dizziness, was like this every day till about 4 day around night time, took some benadril and i started to feel b etter , day 5 right now i still feel somewat out of it but the dizziness went away , now it feels like im light headed i think its just all in my head really i just had a panic attack and everything seems normal physically just not n my head , but as dave said your brain takes time to heal , so i am not worried about this , i’ve noticed if i stop looking up storys about this shit and go hang out with friends life isn’t that bad, I haven’t touched this shit since that day been exercising and taking vitamins , So well see what happens n a couple of weeks or so , i was wondering dave if u had this same symptoms or close to em?

  27. OPENMIND says:

    I am bettting you guys doing all the whining also have similar problems with women and or for that matter anything else involving manhood……What a bunch of straight up PUSSIES! Please go hold hands in private or tell your psychiatrist/therapist about your emotional weaknesses …the rest of us are not interested.

  28. dave says:

    Hi Justine , dunno what to say bro , alcohol just didn’t go down well , didn’t really affect me . Seems theres plenty of people of who’ve smoked weed all there lifes ,who suddenly flip out with a panic attack out the blue( i’ve indulged for 25years) . i still miss it , but i reached a point that night that i never want to return to . shit loads on having panic attacks on the net ,weed related and not, if you have one it gives u an underlying fear of having another , thats all it is , easy to say i know . i’ve boxed most of my life , so i just personified it as a fighter and each time i felt it rising i just said to it “bring it on!” best way to deal with it.
    openmind , i’m glad i make u think u have a big nob.where would u be without people like us ?

  29. OPENMIND says:

    Alot better off is where I would be …As would the rest of the world because if not for those such as you Cannabis would currently be legal instead of illegal as it is now completely due to weak hearted idiots emulating blatent falsehoods and fear as you continue to try and do. For example The above statements you just made regarding weed as you call it claiming people “suddenly flip out with panic attacks out of the blue” after years of use or whatever is completely false and the most idiotic thing I have ever read. There are millions and millions who can and have been helped through the use of cannabis as a medicine both physically as well as psychologically just as the invention research and use of synthetic cannabinoids such as jwh-018 can. But people like you have pussy panic attacks and post it on the internet to try & create hysteria. So lets just ban them all to protect people like you with emotional inadequacies. As the old saying goes.. “SOUNDS LIKE A PERSONAL PROBLEM TO ME” A problem I might add that has absolutely nothing to do with either cannabis or any cannabinoid synthetic or otherwise. So I say go post your problems (or perceived problems) elsewhere because your problems obviously (except to the extremely ignorant) have nothing to do with anything people are trying to discusss here. p.s. There is more than “Shit loads” hard factual medical clinical as well as casual research on the net and elsewhere that counters any and all claims you have made regarding both substances.

  30. Garret says:

    Thanks for the advice. It’s just that the cob-web type floaters are very prominent and it worries me. Never had a spec in my vision before bad experience. It’s been almost 6 months and they are still the same. How long did it take for the floaters to dissipate. I really don’t have much anxiety now after almost 6 months. I think I am only getting anxious because of the prominent floaters. It’s difficult to think clearly with them sometimes and i am afraid I will fuck up job’s and study.

  31. OPENMIND says:

    GOOD LORD!!! These pussy worms are relentless arent they? WTF???? I guess we should just ban every herb/ substance other than tobacco, alcohol and deadly prescription drugs. I just looked at the DEA websight where I read this on the jwh-018 drugs of concern page….( “Information on user population in the U.S. is very limited, and includes information from drug user internet forums. JWH-018 abuse is not monitored by any national drug abuse surveys.” ) Sooo what this is actually saying is that government agencies and legislators in the U.S.A. base their decisions to ban substances on internet forums. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!! Four U.S. states have already banned jwh-018 and two more states will be added to that on july 1st 2010 , seven more states currently have pending or proposed legislation to ban it soon. All based on information obtained through internet forums? I think it’s about time U.S. citizens start banning politicians and hypocritical government agencies. I also noticed that kava was on the list of chemicals of concern??? Really? kava???? lmfao …Folks we need to start aggressively standing up to these worms and stop passively standing by while they ban our rights to live.

  32. dave says:

    Life would be boring without drugs for sure . But if your trying to tell me there aren’t risks involved , you need to open your mind bro ! Alcohol can give you liver damage, smoking can cause lung cancer etc etc . Its all about informed choices. I’m informing and people can make there choices . I’ve taken all sorts of drugs for years , always asked and made an “informed” choice before i’ve taken them ,I think and this opinion has backing on this forum, that some of these “legal ” highs have vastly varying doses , I for one know i was hit by a massive dose which fucked my head right up . I’d also say some of the forms of skunk on the market now are getting almost to strong, but at least u know your getting and the batch is more constant.
    Weeds been around thousands of years and this shit ain’t !
    I dearly hope u spin out on it one day my friend and have my words spinning around in that tiny skull of yours 😉

  33. Garret says:

    Hi dave
    I agree completely with the remarks above. This guy is on the wrong road. I am still trying to find a peron who has the same problem as me. When you say you had eye floaters after the crap experience, were they prominent and new to you, or were they just more heightened. You see you have to understand that my vision was perfect until the crap experience and these prominent eye floaters are depressing me and I am finding it hard to get through each day. I fear that I will never be normal again. The following question is very important to me: How long did the eye floaters(if prominent and never noticed before, or just more heightened) I have been reading on the internet about people with major eye floaters due to smoking legal highs(synthetic cannabinoids). I have not heard much stories about people recovering from the same problem I have. I have a feeling I have a mild dose of HPPD. Or maybe the depression and anxiety is making me see them. I can also see the blood cells or very mild staictic when I look to the sky. My vision does not fell the same excluding my eye floater problem. I wish you would explain a bit more in detail about you recovery regarding the vision problems and especially about the eye floaters. I hope you can understand why I am freaked out! Everywhere I look I can see these cob-webs and black dots swinging around my psyche(vision). It’s the summer and by God!, I see them all over the place. My optician told me these are normal, I am certain I don’t have retanel tear. It’s just the door is open to them, so to speak and it’s like as if I am looking trough the jell in my eyes, with cob-webs and black dots in my vision. I ahve a feeling you did not get this as bad as me. How much of the stuff did you smoke leading to the bad trip. I am seeing a counselor at the moment and my doctor wants me to take Lexapro. I don’t to take these drugs. I would love to beleive all this due to anxiety, but as you can see above I can not seem to nail it down to one thing. It would be great to hear from an expert or someone who know what exactly I am talking about. I feel I have ruined my life dispite the fact taht good people are tell me that I will get better and better. Sounds a lot like depression to me as well. Thanks once again. Don’t forget about how long before you noticed them dissipate and felt like you had back your normal quality of vision.

  34. OPENMIND says:

    I still say You are a pussies! Blah, Blah, Blah, Boo, hoo, hoo! Typical politico worms doped to the nines on prescription meds systematically going from one forum to the next whining and crying trying to drum up typical “the sky is falling” “reefer madness” “WMD” hysteria. Relentlessly blaming an accesible legal substance that has been proven non toxic and non lethal. Yet it is perfectly okay in their eyes for them and the rest of society (even little children) to be given massive amounts of prescription pills that have been proven without doubt to cause death and severe health problems, addiction, psychosis, suicide, and on and on. I say these problems they speak of (If they actually ever even existed..perceived or otherwise) are a direct result of ingesting prescription drugs not jwh or “incense”. Of course none of these doctors we are supposed to trust with our lives will ever tell you the meds they prescribed you have fucked you for life because it might result in a lawsuit for them. I have always been one to read between the lines and what I am reading on these some of these posts is this….Government pricks posing on these forums spreading hysterical falsehood to gain momentum in order to ban these herbs/ substances because any legal substance such as these cannabinoids or any other pleaseurable, beneficial, easily obtainable legal plant/substance poses a threat to the establishment they so zealously seek to protect so as to insure they can continue to control and profit from the suffering of others.. In my previous post I made a point as to the ridiculous sources that these government dickheads claim to use as evidence a substance or herb is harmful. I said absolutely nothing at all about Dave or Garret or Justin. Yet Dave seems to think my post was directed towards him and his crybaby butt buddies???? Why is that?? I ask you why? I rest my case folks! TIME FOR US ALL TO STAND UP TO THEM!

  35. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    It’s impotant to answer the above questions from me in order to clear up my problem. I also want to stop posting here so I can move forward with more faith/confidence and give your poor desent soul a break.
    When I said you were on the wrong road Openmind, I just meant that one is off in looking for a natural high than a high from a chemical. I think this way is more real and grounded in the laws of the universe. Just take care, and bye!

  36. dave says:

    Hi Garret
    If i want to see them they’re there . Sounds like your trying to notice them bro , just get on with your life . I must have noticed them being there all the time for a few months . Then as i chilled they went .
    What i would say , sadly the demented moron above is right on this , that maybe this isn’t the forum for you. There’s plenty of anxiety forums out there be worth posting on them , that disorder you mentioned was interesting and I certainly had a touch of it , so there most be others that can assure you better than me .
    I avoid any type of medication if i can as i detest drug companies , use counciling and your own mind and you’ll be fine bro .
    Openmind , what part of u is open minded when you only believe what u want to ? Cheers Dave

  37. OPENMIND says:

    If I only beleived what I wanted then I would beleive our government representatives actually honored and respected the will of the people and that ignorant people do not own computers, however I do not beleive that. I instead beleive the truth, which is that those people are only in office to line their own pockets and will stoop to whatever it takes and use whatever ridiculous means to accomplish that. If you make certain suggestions to some people they will beleive it as truth whether it is real truth or not. Dave, I would like to comment concerning your previous claims above where you say that you were merely posting your supposed bad experiences in order to help people make more “informed” choices and decisions about jwh. However in your last post you actually admitted that these problems were actually imaginary. and that jwh DID NOT actually cause you any eye problems ect. ect. Garrets physicians have confirmed the same to him. So how is it that you think you are helping people make informed decisions based on misinformation? I am willing to bet the farm that neither of you fella’s perceived any such problems prior to reading some internet forum that suggested the substance might do so. Unless of course you were the one who started all the hysteria. Even physicians tell these people “Hey look dude there is nothing wrong with you !” But they instead choose to beleive something they read on the internet. But hey, thanks Dave for informing thousands of people that cannabinoid “research” chemicals and cannabis (which both have the potential to help and cure millions with cancer, alzheimers, hiv, muscoskeletal problems, stress, depression, post traumatic disorders… I could go on for days here) will cause you to have physical and mental problems when in fact they will not. Why dont you post your Email address so that researchers who are currently able to use these synthetic cannabinoids to find cures for cancer (because they cant use actual cannabis due to it being illegal thanks to nothing more than “reefer madness”) can thank you when these cannabinoids are banned in their state causing that research to come to a screeching halt. So I am a “demented moron” ?? Look dude.. I am not the one who thinks he is seeing things that are in fact not even there.

  38. Justindian says:

    HAHAHA holy shit!! I probably just sat here for the last two hours reading EVERY SINGLE ONE of these posts!! You guys are fucking hilarious!!
    1.JWH-018 causes long-term affects for LONG TERM USERS
    2.Using too much JWH-018 (over 5mg) is DANGEROUS
    3.Smoking spice one time will NOT make you insane
    5.I have HPPD and if you chill the fuck out, it GOES AWAY
    11.Ben and Maui Green Dragon seriously know what they are talking about and without you guys I would have stopped reading this entire post. I have never had a problem with spice. SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPS.

  39. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    I know what you mean, I will no longer post my problem here.
    Anyway, because I did not meet anybody with same problem, I used this site to se if I could relate to anybody. Everyone falls and needs help in life in some time or other. The guy above will fall some day. Then he might have compasion for others.

  40. dave says:

    So if you’ve read my previous posts you’ll see that i , like others, believe there could be uneven dosing going on and to be careful , seems to be the general consensus by lots of others to . But you my friend blabber on about government conspiracy theories and that I have been harping on about the “physical” dangers of these products . You need to read all my posts my friend “open your mind” and you’ll see that i’ve clearly said there were no physical problems other than the panic attack it caused , which I can assure u is one of the most “physical” experiences of my life (mind over body granted).
    If you don’t think that uneven dosing causing panic attacks ,with long lasting mental problems in some people is worth mentioning so others can make informed choices , your a sad self centered individual . Its not all about “u” having fun .

  41. OPENMIND says:

    Did you read my posts???? A conspiracy theory is a conspiracy theory. You can throw your conspiracy theories around and its okay IE claiming that these substances causes physical and mental problems when in fact it has been proven that they do not. ONLY IMAGINARY “reefer madness” as you have repeatedly admitted yourself. Yet you continally tout the imaginary as reality as I have noted time and again. A true “Physical” malody is not an imaginary one and vice versa. Genuine physical malodies are fellow soldiers returning from Iraq and Afganistan missing limbs for instance. Some of my buddies deal with some real mental issues however those issues were brought on by actual physical life changing events…Yes watching your buddies die in the sand of some foreign shit hole tends to have some mental effect on you but most are strong enough to deal with it relatively well on their own and cannabis or herbal smokes tend to help releive the stress tremendously. No my friend it is not all about me at all! far far from it! As all of my posts have clearly pointed out. All of my posts are just the opposite in fact, attempting to stand up for millions who benefit tremendously from these substances in the face of a few douchebags such as yourself who complain and thus campaign to have them banned because you imagined something in your mind that was brought on after you read some bullshit on an internet forum. The government has already banned jwh in the military & several states based on such pussy boy stupidity with zero true evidence it is harmful in any way. Is that a conspiracy theory ?? or cold hard fact?

  42. dave says:

    So your problem is I’m sharing a negative experience instead of a positive one ? Maybe we should have a sensorship filter in place on these forums ?

  43. OPENMIND says:

    My problem is you are sharing falsehood based on heresay & feeble imaginations instead of physical evidence based on actual facts.

  44. dave says:

    Thats what u think because u refuse to acknowledge anyones opinion but your own .

  45. OPENMIND says:

    My opinion is based on fact and nothing less..Your opinion is based on imaginary fantasy and nothing more.

  46. Shaggy says:

    Hey all,
    I have noticed that there are a growing number of people on this thread that are reporting negative effects and go into great detail about it. Whether or not they are entirely true reports or not I can’t say but I am intrigued none the less. It seems that the basis behind most of them are plausible but what I am hesitant to believe is the lasting effects people are claiming. I will use Garret as an example. I remember reading this thread months ago in January when you first started posting and yet you are still here. The advice I gave back then and what others are still giving to you, you seem to ignore. You are turning your experience with Spice into an obsession which in turn it leading you further and further down a road of hypochondria. You seriously need to fucking forget about it and move on with your life. Only two things could happen if you do:

    1- Your life goes back to the way it used to be
    2- You still have slight visions problems and YOU DEAL WITH IT like everyone else in the world who has issues

    With that said, here is my own story. When I was put on probation, I tried to get away with smoking the real shit but I got caught and almost faced some serious consequences. I’ll admit that I am an addict (not to weed, just to anything really) so it is hard for me to go more than a month or so without at least having a beer. Realizing that if I had another dirty UA I would be put away, I did a bunch of research and decided to try Spice. At first I only used an eighth or two a month when I could afford it. Just recently though I decided to make my own batch. For around $50 I was able to make two and a half ounces using one gram of jwh-018. The potency was enough to make one bowl get you good and lit. It took me around a month to go through it all, and for the most part I was smoking every evening after work. Here are the effects that I noticed during this period:

    Occasionally I would notice my heart rate increase as if I had taken a line of coke. Usually this would happen at the beginning of a session and subside within a half an hour or so. Sometimes I could also tell that text would be harder to read and that things looked slightly different (its hard to explain but almost similar to a mild acid high). The whole time during the month I defiantly noticed a stronger paranoia that regular weed and would find myself at times seeing things in the corner of my eye (similar to coming down from a bender on speed but not as intense). The paranoia was kinda combined with an obsessive tendency. Again it’s hard to describe but an illustration of it would be constantly trying to deal with acne to the point where they became sores. I knew I should have just left it alone and it would have healed but at the same time it was hard to resist the urge to keep doing it. Also at the end of the month I could feel that I was more on edge and felt more uneasy than normal.

    It has been just over two weeks since I last had some and I can safely say I don’t feel any paranoia, no vision problems, no obsessive tenancies or anything else really. For those who still do have such problem or at least claim to have them, my bet is that you are either lying or that you had got yourself so worked up or freaked out when you did try it that you now firmly believe it is a lasting effect that you have. I can’t say for certain because I am not a doctor nor a psychiatrist but that is my hunch.

    Also, during the month I was using, I had one occasion where I smoked a bit too much and knew I had mildly OD’ed. I have OD’ed on other drugs in the past so I knew that this was the case. My heart was racing, the paranoia was intense and I could have easily lost it. But like what others on this thread are saying as well, I took some deep breaths, laid down on the couch and threw in a movie to take my mind off the noids. It took an hour or so of making a conscious effort to not freak out before I was able to begin relaxing enough to fall asleep. The next day I felt fine and went to work. If that had been one of my first times using any drug or was unaccustomed to “the fear,” I could easily see myself completely losing it and having to be taken to the hospital. For those who have used hallucinogens before and enjoyed it, we know that the only way to have fun on them is to never succumb to “the fear” which jwh-018 seems to defiantly have hiding in it’s closet.

    All in all I will most likely never use it again. I only have a few months left on probation and then I can go back to smoking the good natural herb. JWH just feels dirty and I guess you could say unhealthy especially when used consistently over longer periods of time. If you are desperate like I have been in the past I would say it is ok in small does, but it isn’t like weed where you can get really really baked. Once you are high, that is pretty much the ceiling and if you go past it you are likely to freak out.

    Justindian is almost spot on with what he said a few posts ago except that you could go nuts from smoking it just once if you allow yourself to. I have seen it with hallucinogens in the past, if you don’t know what you are getting yourself into or are emotionally unstable / have other issues mentally, then you probably should stay clear of the drug. I have friends who still think they are different after one use of a hallucinogen when I have taken a large variety on multiple occasions and feel just fine. The mind is a powerful thing and if you believe something strong enough, it will make it true… even to the point of death.

    Back to Garret again… everyone has eye floaters, you might not have just noticed them in the past but you had them then as well. It is a natural occurrence within the eye that is healthy. In some cases an abundance of them can indicate problems, but if you are so worried about it go to an eye doctor and just have him examine you. Don’t tell him any of your thoughts about it, or that you used an RC, just let him do an examination like any other and see what he says. I can almost guarantee you that there is nothing wrong. And if you look at an earlier post you made in March you even said “my eyes are fine thanks” but from continuing to read scare stories and such you went back to believe that there still was an issue. You really need to just let all this go and then you can continue on with your life. You have spent six months so far obsessing over this and anyone can tell you that that isn’t healthy.

    And to OPENMIND, you almost sound like a vendor trying to keep this shit legal. Either that or you really just can’t comprehend other experiences / possibilities other than your own. If you do research behind Spice and JWH instead of talking out your ass you will find articles not only abroad but in the States as well of people going to the hospital from using it. If you think independent news reporters are apart of the conspiracy then you my friend are an idiot. Just because you and I haven’t had any serious problems from it doesn’t mean that it isn’t possible. This is a damn research chemical… do you even know what that mean? We don’t know the full gamut of side effects yet and to say that anything negative is BS is complete foolishness. But I do agree that some people are blowing things way out of proportion.

    Well that’s my 2 cents, take it or leave it I don’t care.

  47. Concerned says:

    Has anyone suffered long term side effects? longer than a week?

  48. mojolover says:

    mojo diamond… unfortunately i’m subject to random UA’s so i quit everything. been smoking since i was 11, now 46, been drinking that long as well, totally quit that. after a year, i was def craving to smoke, so a friend referred me to local headshop for serenity… they didn’t have it but did have mojo diamond!! THANK GOD!!! maybe 3-4 x’s a week, at the end of my night i will smoke a pinner and be HIGHHHH as a kite! i love it!! have no desire to hunt anything else, but, alas, it will be illegal here in fla by 7/1. i have no horror stories, no complaints, i will say that it does seem to knock me out, i do sleep harder and longer, and my ass does seem to drag a bit the next day, but looking back at my pot smoking years, my ass was lazy and dragging then too!! lmfao! now i just need to figure out how to keep getting this stuff, ($30=3g) after 7/1~~~

  49. OPENMIND says:

    No shaggy I am not a vendor trying to “keep this shit legal” so that I can sell it . I am just a rational thinking human being who does not have his head up his ass. The research I have done is based on fact and nothing else. I have mentioned this repeatedly until blue in the face. Have you read any technical data from actual research done with this chemical? Or have you just read media reports from independent reporters (LMFAO!!) whom I should probably inform you are paid by news organizations that lean politically either to the left or to the right (as anyone with a brain already knows) depending upon which billionaires owns them. In other words they print only what they want to.usually leaning toward their own agenda. not the truth! Have you ever heard of a little thing called history? I guess not? If you had then you would know that just because something shows up in the news media does not make it true fact. Ever hear of the “National Enquirer” or “reefer madness” ect. One of the main reasons cannabis ever became illegal in the first place was due to a huge politically and financially motivated false media campaign claiming marijuana was deadly harmful and would cause people to literally go insane if they smoked it. Along with a whole myriad of racial lies and myths surrounding the ever so evil devil plant maurihuana. BOO! lol. It is called the media and if you think everything in the media is reliable fact then you are one of the blithering idiots who needs to pull his head from his ass. Not to mention the other true fact that any fool can write some bullshit story and post it on the internet for the whole world to see. And another thing..In any of these so called reliable media stories that you talk about where people are supposedly going to the hospital… has there been one single death reported? How about any kind of documented health problems at all from any single one of these reported hospital visits? Or are they all your basic just half assed hysteria stories about nothing more than goofy people who just simply got too stoned for personal comfort but of course were not actually harmed physically in any way whatsoever? Ever hear any news stories about kids going to the hospital from drinking too much beer?? Any documented deaths from beer or whiskey overdose or I should say poisoning? How about stories of overdose deaths from prescription drugs? You bet I know what a “research chemical” is………Do you??? One thing research chemicals are used for is doing well um.. research. You know research is what inteligent people do to try and find cures for diseases and such. That is of course so long as the chemicals they so vitally need to do so are legally available so that they can have the opportunity to do that vitally important research before they are banned due to goofy people. These cannabinoids are absolutely amazing substances which have the potential to act as miraculous medicines and are far safer than 90% of the current FDA approved “CHEMICAL” medicines which can and have in fact killed people….Millions of people. Yet are legal and available today. Some even available over the counter to minors no doubt.


    Just wanted to post my own personal experience with herbal incense. First off, I am a 43 year old male and not an illegal recreational drug user or a drinker. For the past couple of years I have experienced excrutiating pain in my colon. I exhibit all the classic symptoms of colon cancer. If you dont know what that feels like the only way I know to describe it is that it feels like I have swallowed a huge stone that is now lodged in my colon preventing normal lower digestion and all that involves if you can get the picture. This condition is not only painful as hell but it sucks every ounce of energy from your body. healthy appetite and restful sleep is pretty much non existent due to what I can only describe as mind blowing pain. I have a friend that works in construction with what he refers to as a bunch of convicts who told me about this herbal inscense that some of his workers were smoking as an alternative to marijuana so as to avoid drug testing. I had entertained the thought of trying marijuana to get releif from the pain I experience however the illegal status and lack of availability had deterred me from doing so. The other day in the midst of horrible pain and about five days without any real rest or anything close to a decent meal. I stopped at a small store to purchase some over the counter acetometaphine sleep aid and saw that they sold little 400mg packets of various herbal blends as the store clerk called them. For a split second I associated what my friend had said about herbal incense with my curiosity to try marijuana as a pain releiver so without a second thought I told the clerk to “Give me a couple of those too” After some inquiry and a short discussion with the clerk about how much and how to take it He threw in a little cigarette one hitter as he called it. Knowing from experience how little acetametaphine would help I opted instead to try the herbal incense as soon as possible. I took one small light puff off of the small cigarette apparatus and about all I can say at this point is it was indeed absolutely amazing! The first thing I noticed was almost immediate releif from the pounding and twitching pain in my gut along with an extremely relaxing feeling throughout my body and an easing of my very stressed out mind. For the first time in several days I had releif. Total releif! I proceeded to take another small slow steady pull and after that was finished administered one last small dose. after about thirty minutes I realized I could now probably take a pretty decent nap so I laid down on the couch. To my surprise I woke up about eight hours later feeling extremely well rested and very rejuvinated immediately realizing that for the first time in weeks I had gotten some actual sleep and real rest. The kicker was that I was also very hungry. Thats right, my appetite was back in full force. Since then I have been eating everything edible in sight without any problems. I am now using it sparingly on a daily basis because quite frankly it takes very little to get the desired releif I need. I have been using during the day with no problems or interference in normal daily activities. The only thing I notice is the abscense of pain that before was preventing me from being able to really function at all. For me this stuff is awesome. I have not noticed experienced zero negative aspects and hope to God it remains to be legal and easily accessible.

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