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JWH-018, Spice & Me

By John Clarke

The Spice smoking mixture range has been one of the most popular “herbal” smokes ever, and now it’s no suprise why.

To get an idea of just how popular these mix­tures are, just take a look at this data from Google’s keyword tool:

That’s over 37,000 searches a month for these three search terms alone — Spice is def­in­itely a cus­tomer favour­ite. I also get no less than 500 emails a day from Russia asking if I can ship it there by the kilo. So what’s behind it all?

This paper [PDF; 246 kB] has some inter­est­ing things to say. It turns out that the Spice blends all contain JWH-018 as well as two com­pounds based on CP 47497 — all of them syn­thetic can­nabin­oids. These are man made chem­ic­als designed to tickle the same recept­ors as THC, the active com­pound in can­nabis, so it’s no wonder these smoking mix­tures are so power­ful. The dif­fer­ence in potency between the Spice blends appears to be accoun­ted for by increas­ing levels of these CP 47497 homo­logues.

jwh-018

Since this dis­cov­ery, Spice has been banned in several coun­tries, includ­ing Austria and Germany. The BBC also repor­ted on it and had the fol­low­ing to say:

The UK drugs reg­u­lator, the Medi­cine and Health­care products Reg­u­lat­ory Agency (MHRA), is under­stood to have iden­ti­fied JWH018 in products avail­able in the UK. It is cur­rently in order to determ­ine whether or not it should be clas­si­fied as a medi­cinal product — which would mean it should only be avail­able from a doctor.

The UK Advis­ory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the gov­ern­ment on whether a drug should be made illegal, is also aware of the sub­stance, and is invest­ig­at­ing it.

The Spice man­u­fac­tur­ers make no mention of these syn­thet­ics on their pack­aging, so a lot of herb-enthu­si­asts feel some­what betrayed. Rightly so, I suppose — not being told just what you’re smoking exactly. People have the choice to put things in their body and some Spice smokers might make a dif­fer­ent decision if they had all the facts in hand.

But, why?

The typical reac­tion to this news seems to be the disgust about putting any of these “unsafe” man-made com­pounds into their body, as though mother nature was some kind of safety net. “These plants have thou­sands of years of safe use”, they say! But let’s take a closer look…

Take Kratom, for instance. Kratom con­tains a power­ful com­pound called mitra­gyn­ine, which acts upon the opioid recept­ors; the same targets for opium and its deriv­at­ives. One alkal­oid in kratom, although present in much smaller quant­it­ies, is 7-hydroxymitra­gyn­ine, which is appar­ently 17x more potent than morphine! While I wouldn’t call this plant harmful, com­pared to other drugs like cocaine and heroin, it wouldn’t say it was harm­less either. The opioid recept­ors are a dan­ger­ous set of recept­ors to be messing with — the mu subtype respons­ible for the classic euphoria that accom­pan­ies opiate use also stops you breath­ing if you tickle them too much. Opiates are also addict­ive, just like kratom can be if you take too much. While this plant may have seen thou­sands of years of respons­ible, mod­er­ate use, this is no reas­sur­ance at all towards its safety.

Now days, people gen­er­ally don’t toil in the field every day that Newton sends — we have more free time and money to spend than ever before. We can now afford to use large quant­it­ies of kratom every day, as well as other entheo­gens from around the world, but we don’t have any inform­a­tion about this level of expos­ure to kratom itself or in com­bin­a­tion with other stuff. For all we know, taking a mixture of kratom and Salvia divinorum daily could make your eye­balls explode after day 300, or chronic kratom use might give you some kind of evil super­power. Looking at paracetamol as a rather boring example, if you take the odd one every now and then, you’ll be fine, but if you take 8 pills a day every day for a year, you’ll likely end up with some serious con­di­tion. There’s also the fact that modern chem­istry can create power­ful extracts of these entheo­gens. Who’s to say they’re safe, just because they come from a plant? And what about any other drugs we might be on? Being on a select­ive sero­tonin reup­take inhib­itor like Prozac for depres­sion isn’t uncom­mon in today’s society — combine them with the “per­fectly safe” Ban­is­teriopsis caapi vine, itself a monoam­ine oxidase inhib­itor, and you have a poten­tially fatal com­bin­a­tion of drugs in your system. I bet there are many more con­train­dic­a­tions we haven’t even con­sidered.

What about plants like can­nabis and tobacco? They’ve also been used respons­ibly for thou­sands of years, but it’s only when so many people start to take these things that we real­ised “Actu­ally, smoking is bad for us”. Besides, our current medical know­ledge means we’ve only recently been able to dia­gnose these kind of things. I’m not sure I want to trust any data from a period when epi­lepsy might have been down to a demonic pos­ses­sion. How many adverse health effects could we identify in these ancient entheo­gen users based on what we know today?

So, while we can be uncer­tain of the long term effects on health of JWH-018 and friends, it seems we can’t actu­ally be certain about the safety of most of the things we happily consume. Yes, they may turn out to be super toxic (although prob­ably not, if they’re given to lab rats), but at least they only act on your can­nabin­oid recept­ors. Kratom tends to be pre­pared as a tea — once you’ve drunk it, you’ve drunk it. If you’ve taken too much, you’ll realise when its already in your blood. It would be much harder to over­dose on these syn­thet­ics due to the speed at which they get in your system — if you’re too stoned, you won’t want to smoke any more, never mind being phys­ic­ally able to. The can­nabin­oid recept­ors they target are also much safter than the opioid targets of kratom. Can­nabin­oid recept­ors seem play a mod­u­lat­ory role, rather than being majorly import­ant, so messing with them doesn’t have as drastic an effect. Smoking too much might make you feel a bit sick and dizzy for a while, but you cer­tainly won’t stop breath­ing.

In all, I think Spice is in the wrong for not making this clear in the first place, but then I’m not suprised they didn’t want to list these com­pounds in the current polit­ical climate. Maybe when the gov­ern­ment real­ises that it is our right to put things into our own bodies, listing these ingredi­ents wouldn’t be an issue.

Even with this new inform­a­tion however, I’ll still be using the stuff. It’s great!.

465 Responses to JWH-018, Spice & Me

  1. justin says:

    I’ve been reading over some of this stuff and i relate to a lot of it. I smoked syn­thetic smoking blends for 6 months and had a really bad anxiety attack the last time i smoked. After i stopped, about a week later, i kept having these sort of flash­backs to it where i felt really high again without even smoking. For the next month and a half i was really fucked up- internal unrest, anxiety, trouble sleep­ing, blurred vision and depth per­cep­tion prob­lems, and an inab­il­ity to think clearly. These have been gettting much better with time. Its been four months now and the only symp­toms that really remain is the blurred vision and a sort of dis­so­ci­ation deper­son­al­iz­a­tion, but its hard to describe . It seems that my vision is blurry for long dis­tances and i have to redjust my eyes to see objects far away clearly. Also, some of the other symp­toms pop back up every once in a while but much more mildly and never more than once or twice a week. I’m just getting really con­cerned because i dont know if i will ever recover 100%. I cant believe this shit is lasting four months. If someone has fully recovered please share or if anyone can shed any light on this please let me know!

  2. dave says:

    hi justin, i’m cool now .took 6 months . think it triggered an anxiety dis­order , keep telling your­self thats what it is and you’ll be fine. some people are getting a bad reac­tion to this chem­ical ‚whatever is being said on this forum. cheers dave

  3. alanh79 says:

    @ x1: Thanks!

    The JWH Class of RCs is cer­tainly strange. I suspect that because of its purity, and other factors, jwh might poten­tially exacer­bate pre-exist­ing mental ill­nesses. For this alone, it might end up being demon­ized by the media and/​or general public. However, I myself found jwh to be power­fully sed­at­ing. Along with gust­at­ory (taste) hal­lu­cin­a­tions, I also exper­i­enced olfact­ory (smell) ones, as well.

    I’m 240 pounds, grew up in the 60’s and 70’s, and have had mul­tiple, varied, power­ful, and often lengthy drug exper­i­ences. My favor­ite bud is a tie between Thai bud and Panama Red. Kona Gold has always made me sleepy to the point of taking a nap. JWH seems a lot like Kona to me, in that I get quite sleepy and sedated.

    I’ve been a US Army Medical Labor­at­ory Spe­cial­ist (Drugs of Abuse Testing, Radioim­mun­oas­say, and Clin­ical Tox­ic­o­logy), a nurse (nursing home Night Charge Nurse, and Drug/​Alcohol Detox/​Treatment Nurse), and an Emer­gency Medical Tech­ni­cian, but in high school in the 70’s I was both the biggest science nerd and the biggest hippy, so decided I’d cata­logue the drug spec­trum.

    Never was able to procure pure THC, but oddly, I’m not sure it’s the com­pon­ent in pot I like most. Seems like the newer hybrids with their extremely high THC content simply aren’t as good as I grew up with. In the 70’s, I was smoking African bhanji, Afghani Black, Cam­bod­ian Red, Colom­bian Gold, Thai sticks and bud, Kush, Kona Gold, Maui Wowie, etc, and I must say the old stuff was better than the bud out nowadays. Anyway, I digress.

    So I tried 18 and 73 together, and it seemed mel­lower than jwh-018 alone. I take rather large doses and noticed that after three weeks, my tol­er­ance is way up. 2g alto­gether (by myself) last week alone! Yikes! Taking a couple weeks off. Have been some­what dull-minded and slightly for­get­ful since trying jwhXXX. I also have noticed that Amo­tiv­a­tional Syn­drome is very strong with JWH– it’s a power­ful pro­cras­tin­a­tion chem.

    Anyone have any Tele­pathic or extra­sens­ory effects?

  4. pinky says:

    Hi guys…

    I too had a very bad exper­i­ence with legal herbs.

    A friend passed away and I was really depressed one day. I thought I’d go to the shop and try some of the legal herbs. I’d only ever smoked weed 3 x and had a cruisy, good time.

    I was just so depressed though and thought I’d try some­thing new, some­thing inno­cent.

    I wanted to smoke it on my own and just relax…so I pur­chased what was called ”Haze”. It’s very similar to Spice. I hon­estly thought I prob­ably wouldn’t feel much from it.

    I went home and put a tiny sprinkle in with my tabacco…went down stairs and lit it up. I instantly felt it, and had a couple of drags and then went back upstairs.

    As I got to the top of the stairs, I noticed my heart beating pretty quick…but thought not much of it as i’d just walked up stairs…it obvi­ously goes faster.

    as I went inside…I started to feel faint. I had some water. My heart rate went back down. I sat for a sec, but then it sped back up…it was going REALLY fast. I was pet­ri­fied. I started to feel so faint and was scared I was going to die alone…as noone was home + I was away from home. I was so scared.

    I waited a bit…called 911 as my heart was racing so fast.

    When they got there, it was going 167bpm. They said that my heart will be fine, that I was just freak­ing and I will be OK. They took me into hos­pital and did a ECG…everything was fine. They waited until my heart calmed down and let me go home.

    I went to sleep and felt 100% normal the next day…just a little tired.

    I felt fine for the weeks after­wards but…

    5 weeks later, I got sudden dizzi­ness one morning and my heart started racing again…this time about 140bpm. It gradu­ally slowed down…but since then, I had a number of crazy attacks.

    It was insane. I’m still working through it…6 months later. I just found it weird that I felt fine until 5 weeks after the exper­i­ence? I thought maybe it was actu­ally seper­ate things going on…I though I’d caught a virus or some­thing and having a fever…as I was trav­el­ling at the time.

    I had to see a car­di­olo­gist, he said my heart was fine and did a number of tests. He said I may have SVT (some­thing your born with) and that the drug sort of triggered it to set off.

    I have been to ER three times in the last 6 months, with severe palpatations.…heart peaking at 160 and higher bpm during these attacks. I know that it’s most likely panic.…as I’ve been through a lot of stress. It’s just the dizzi­ness that worries me, it hit me once when driving and then my heart raced shortly after­wards and I had to pull over. I wonder if the dizzi­ness is just from my heart racing and the rush of blood? I dunno.

    I just freak out some­times, but am getting a handle on it. I know it’s almost over.

    It helps to know your hearts fine and normal and can hack beating at 200bpm for days on end.

    I think I’m just scared that some­thing is wrong upstairs…both phys­ic­ally and men­tally.

    I feel normal though, and can go weeks without any symp­toms, but then all of a sudden I can feel really dizzy and my heart will race. I also get depressed from this.

    I’ve noticed it keeps hap­pen­ing when I eat, too. I’ll get tunnel hearing for a moment and a dizzy spell, short episode of racing heart…then it goes away. It also seems rel­ev­ant to my posture.

    I’ve just been drink­ing heaps of water and trying to relax.

    My doctor sug­ges­ted 12 months of SSRI’s just to try and help out and she said I’d be back to normal after the 12 month course.…I’m just not sure though if I want to hop on meds.

    I’m feeling good now + hon­estly think it’s all in my head. I was para­noid to begin with to be honest…and I think I just couldn’t handle what I exper­i­enced.

    I also think a good point to make is it could be post trau­matic stress some people are having.…the initial event was very trau­matic obvi­ously, and our mind remem­bers this and some­times trig­gers our body to do some whacky shit in response.

    All I can say is, stay positive.…and I really think people should stay far away from this shit.…especially if your anxious to begin with. Just stick to actual, clean weed! Please don’t smoke these legal stupid herbs.

    I know I’ll be 100% me again, without all these annoy­ing symptoms…and will be a stronger person at the end of it. It’s hard and I wish I never bought the crap, I had a voice in the back of my head telling me not to…fucking wish I’d listened.

    But hey, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

    ; )

  5. MauiGreenDragon says:

    alanh79 nailed it. “jwh might poten­tially exacer­bate pre-exist­ing mental ill­nesses”. Our bodies are the ulti­mate “chem­ical lab” and since each lab is unique there will be endless varied exper­i­ences.

    I have been fol­low­ing this thread for along time now, and it is very obvious that there is a con­clu­sion to be observed. There exists a com­pletely uncon­trolled “lab” and “clin­ical” basis to pin­point just exactly what a person can expect. There is no “placebo” or “blind” control to ref­er­ence period.

    Becom­ing the “lab rat” is a per­sonal choice. If you are using these sub­stances it would be prudent to record detailed inform­a­tion about everything. And I mean everything. SET and SETTING, blood pres­sure, are you on or have been on other sub­stances recently (a cal­ender if you will) so the recor­ded record can be ref­er­enced.

    Of course this is in a perfect world or a licensed pro­fes­sional lab. This is not going to happen.

    You alone are respons­ible and there is no turning back when the jour­neys begin. But that is what drives people to search.

    So to all you seekers I say, choose your poison and live with it. I do hope that anyone still having prob­lems will return to BASELINE, and the next time you go under the “glass” to be observed, attempt to find the “THRESHOLD” amount that applies to your “unique” labor­at­ory (the won­drous human body that you are blessed to have).

    Addendum: A digital scale, note­book, pen. KEEP DETAILED ACCOUNTS. ad nauseum etc etc.

  6. justin says:

    thanks dave. i looked up panic dis­orders online and found it to be very similar to what i was exper­i­en­cing about 3 months ago. Now it seems that i have the same symp­toms just much more mild. Hope­fully they will con­tinue to decrease with time. One ques­tion though: did you seek any medical treat­ment or did you just deal with it your­self?
    justin

  7. dave says:

    hi justin and pinky

    no i just dealt with it myself. looking up forums on panic dis­order and seeing peoples exper­i­ences matched my own. i and others seem to have the same with eating pinky. seems to be the rush of blood sugar into the system and the mind , as its anxious and on the lookout for phys­ical “changes” , starts the panic. what you’ll find that the slight­est thing like a slight stomach ache or head­ache or even things that are so small u barely notice can trigger panic. i felt pretty ill , but the more i read the more i learn’t how to calm myself. what you’ve for­goten is that u had anxiety to a certain degree before i bet , but might not have even noticed , u just gotta chill ! i feel for u, thats why i keep check­ing this forum sporad­ic­ally, i wanted to see hear from someone that had been there and got better when i felt ill , i’m him !cheers dave

  8. justin says:

    thanks dave.
    you’ve been a big help. somehow just knowing its an anxiety dis­order makes me feel better about the whole thing, like i’m more in control of it. just one more ques­tion: did you also feel these feel­ings of deper­son­al­iz­a­tion? kind of like you are detached from what your doing or kind of like your dream­ing. its hard to explain but was just won­der­ing if you felt the same way and if it was your longest lasting symptom?
    -justin

  9. OPENMIND says:

    SOOO… if you are a psychotic, worry wort, hypo­chon­driac, ger­mo­phobe, who beleives God is gonna end the world and satan is comin to get you because you may have had a poten­tially evil thought or desire to exper­i­ence some­thing new in life then dont touch this stuff or any­thing else fun. Please dont even think about trying these new jwh sub­stances if you have even the slight­est notion in your mind or gut that any of these sub­stances may cause you to have to “GO TO THE DOCTOR” because con­sump­tion may make you “FEEL” dif­fer­ent, funny, strange, light headed, happy, sad, horny, hun­gover, para­noid, spacey, spir­itual, scared, cranky, crunk or open minded ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. It has taken the rational thinkers of this earth far too long to begin to undue and ree­du­cate all the “mis­in­formed” about a plant named can­nabis.

  10. Garret says:

    Hi
    I am check­ing this site also to see if I can read any pos­it­ive stories. Has anyone recovered from using legal smokes. I still have anxiety and heightened aware­ness of eye float­ers. It has been about 5 months since I have quit everything.
    The eye float­ers a maybe due to anxiety and depres­sion. Will the cob-web type eye float­ers become less con­scious when anxiety fades? I am just posting here again to see if I can catch more fish with same problem.

  11. dave says:

    open­mind u remind me of myself a few years ago ‚have fun while it lasts!
    justin, yep i did , stick with it and just start enjoy­ing your life again, it’ll be cool , just pull your­self together !
    like­wise garret , noticed everything that was going on with my body , even asked when i got my eyes tested about float­ers , i’ve kick­boxed at a high level for years so was para­noid about any damage , but all was normal ! get back to your life m y friend !

  12. alanh79 says:

    I stopped taking jwh last Thursday. This was after three weeks of daily, “heavy” use:
    Week one: total 1g jwh-018
    Week two: total 2g jwh-018
    Week three: total 1g jwh-018, 1g jwh-073

    Friday after­noon was noti­cing anxiety and depres­sion, fairly pro­nounced. My digest­ive system started react­ing– hyper­act­ive BT, diarrhea.
    Sat­urday was the same. Felt some­what like opiate with­drawal symp­toms, which was strange for me– mj has never caused those symp­toms when I’d smoked heavily for weeks than stopped, but merely caused a little irrit­ab­il­ity. Occa­sion­ally, my heart would start pound­ing, I would per­spire heavily, be some­what short of breath. Sat­urday night I smoked half a joint of indica, got only slightly high and noticed only a slight ameli­or­a­tion of symp­toms. Took B-complex vit­am­ins and potassium. Sex w/​ gf was amazing… much better than when taking jwh.
    Sunday morn felt a little better. Went for a long walk in the after­noon, but lost energy, prob­ably from fluid loss due to diarrhea. Started getting anxiety again, but depres­sion seemed to be better.
    Monday, today, woke up early, which had not happened since start­ing jwh. Was more social at work instead of the some­what zombie-like jwh state I’d been in for three weeks. Inform­a­tion is pro­cessing easier now, mental con­nec­tions seem to be re-estab­lish­ing, memory is better. This after­noon, was making jokes and laugh­ing with co-workers again. Still having slight digest­ive symp­toms but they are nearly resolved now.

    This exper­i­ence leads me to believe that large amounts (>10 – 30mg PO 3x/​d) over time (three weeks plus) can lead to phys­ical addic­tion, in that phys­ical with­drawal symp­toms were exper­i­enced after ces­sa­tion. Also, I thought quite a bit about jwh after stop­ping, and part of me wanted to buy more. But the strong part of me thought the idea ridicu­lous based on my exper­i­ences so far.

    It cer­tainly is an odd class of RCs. The effects are both strong and subtle. The mental effects are not easy to define accur­ately. It wasn’t easy to remain entirely logical while under the influ­ence, but on the other hand I noticed my intu­ition was much better.

    During the three weeks I told no one else that I was taking jwh. Friends who knew me best asked me if I had smoked pot. Others either asked me if I was OK or accused me of being “on drugs.” Com­ments I got from co-workers today (day 4 after stop­ping) were basic­ally that the old me was back.

    But I’m not 100% back. I am still feeling anxiety which I calm by real­iz­ing that it’s from jwh and is getting better. Also, I can step back from the anxiety a bit and get some sep­ar­a­tion from it so I won’t feel the full brunt (an old psy­chonaut method).

    Is the after­math worth what odd effects I got on jwh? I’m not so sure it is. Pot has always seemed so healing and friendly, but jwh is not very friendly, and I’m not sure about its healing poten­tial. As a phys­ical pain reliever, I haven’t decided where I stand. At times it seemed to cause an odd dis­con­nect between sensory nerves and brain (can barely feel an object held in the hand, etc), but then again it seemed to make psy­cho­lo­gical pain worse. At least opiates add some euphoria to one’s pain relief.

    Pot is safer, milder, and a much better choice for me, per­son­ally.

  13. Garret says:

    Hi Dave

    Yes, I have also that neg­at­ive filter. Now I notice my eye float­ers all the time. Were your eye float­ers pro­nounced and did they dis­sip­ate when the worry and anxiety went away?

  14. Frankie says:

    ive been using spice lately because i cant smoke pot… im on drug testing for court, its going to be illegal here in alabama soon. and they have been working on research­ing what to test for in a piss test… so like i dont really wanna go back to jail. any ideas on a time frame for whatever gets u high in spice for how long it would stay in my system?

  15. alanh79 says:

    Update: Tuesday. To combat jwh with­drawal and other symp­toms like anxiety, tried GABA 250mg PO (oral dose). Stuff worked great! I was alert, happy, con­fid­ent at work all day. It even seemed like I felt better than I did before I ever tried jwh-018. GABA was uplift­ing AND reduced my anxiety. Anyone else try GABA for anxiety afteref­fects?

  16. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    Don’t forget the ques­tion about the eye float­ers. Did your eye float­ers come up into your vision when you were looking for stuff? I know they are harm­less and they were always there. I just became con­scious of them 3 months after I quit everything and they are still in my vision field. I still have the heightened aware­ness of them and the anxiety. I Think the anxiety would be less if I was not con­scious of them all the time. Does this level out over time? I know I posted here about the same type of prob­lems. I just need some more reas­sur­ance. Will there come a day when I am less con­scious of them? I am sure the heightened aware­ness of the float­ers are not HPPD related and I hope that I do not have some other kind of per­cep­tion dis­order. I do seem to have a neg­at­ive filter and being on alert sub­con­sciously. Just can’t seem to forget about them.
    Thanks.
    Garret

  17. dave says:

    Hi Garret

    I only notice them again after reading this ‚ha,ha ! So yup its all anxiety . Just pull your­self together bro , get out enjoy your life,engage the world around you .
    cheers Dave

  18. Lee says:

    This is killing me. I just can’t read any more of these. There are a few intel­li­gent people spread through­out these posts, but it seems the major­ity of these are written by ignor­ant people who don’t under­stand that you don’t use pure phar­ma­ceut­ic­als. Ser­i­ously, I under­stand that this may be dan­ger­ous if used in high dosages or for exten­ded periods of time. I smoke herbal blends on a regular basis, but I keep in mind that everything is to be used in mod­er­a­tion. Ha Ha to the lady who’s son (or what ever rela­tion) had a seizure, well lets think about this.…He spent $750 and smoked that much. Its a wonder he didn’t die from being retarded. Anyone who over uses any drug due to lack of know­ledge is beyond any sym­pathy for not research­ing it enough before hand. To, anyone who tried to “up the dose” you are the worst.…I can’t even begin to explain my hatred for people with your men­tal­ity. You are the mor­bidly obese of the drug world. Not real­iz­ing that everything should be used in mod­er­a­tion; you plague the world with your mishaps until our overly invas­ive gov­ern­ment has to ban it to keep you from hurting yourselves. You are like a toddler around a light socket and I, for one are getting pretty fucking tired of having people put the little plastic pro­tector over it. So, please for the sake of anyone smart enough to handle their own lives without a gov­ern­ment nanny to keep them safe, stop doing any­thing at all. In fact stop breath­ing, cause I’m sure you can figure out a way to over­dose on it. Learn to control your­self and do some research before you fuck up everything for us, you insens­it­ive mother fuckers.

  19. Garret says:

    Hi, Up there
    You do not know what amount of chem­ic­als are in any batch.
    Think about it.
    Thank You.

  20. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    I want to ask you a few ques­tions I hope you are not angry cause I am still stressed. Thanks for the inform­a­tion. I seem to have an anxiety dis­order alright. I have this very intense neg­at­ive filter, thats looking for stuff and depres­sion, think­ing that I have ruined my life. The neg­at­ive filter is scan­ning for all the bad side effects men­tioned above. I never noticed any kind of eye float­ers before I smoked syn­thetic can­nbin­oids. I was worried about HPPD cause I seem to be seeing all the natural phe­nom­ena in my eyes. It’s like looking out from a dif­fer­ent angle/​perceptive that sees everything in my eyes. When I look to the sky, I am exper­i­en­cing some­thing like the fol­low­ing: Another common phos­phene is “seeing stars,” from a sneeze, a heavy and deep cough, blowing of the nose, a blow on the head or low blood pres­sure (such as on stand­ing up too quickly or prior to faint­ing). It is pos­sible these involve some mech­an­ical stim­u­la­tion of the retina, but they may also involve mech­an­ical and meta­bolic stim­u­la­tion of neurons of the visual cortex or of other parts of the visual system. Or are these just cells darting around? Am I seeing this stuff cause I had read that syn­thec­tic can­nbin­oids were repor­ted to have caused HPPD in some users. When I heard about a guy who has kidney prob­lems the neg­at­ive filter is on my kidneys and this starts more panic. I also seem to think that the normal level of noise in my head is a bit louder than what it used to be, I think I am hearing a very low sizzel­ing noise. Am I hearing this cause I read up on tin­nitus or is the anxiety causing it Did you exper­i­ence all this stuff? Did the visual stuff dis­sip­ate when the anxiety levels dropped? Is this all psycho­so­matic, I wish I could close the door in what I am seeing. It’s been 5 months since I stopped smoking this stuff. Did you only see the float­ers or more after the trauma.
    I never new I had them.
    In the mean­time I will try be con­scious of them*

  21. OneDayAtATime says:

    SWIM wanted to report back. It has been about 2 months since SWIM had his first episode. Still not back to normal, far from it… BUT SWIM reports being much better than ori­gin­ally. SWIM has now seen a few doctors, a psy­chi­at­rist, scoured the inter­net for inform­a­tion, and read some books. SWIM’s exper­i­ence has been up and down. SWIM was put on med­ic­a­tions from doctors, some which helped, others which made the situ­ation worse and caused SWIM to have a com­plete mental/​physical break down. SWIM then decided to no longer take any of the med­ic­a­tion as SWIM felt it was causing more prob­lems rather than fixing the pre­vi­ous ones. SWIM believes every­one is dif­fer­ent so med­ic­a­tions may work for you, or may not. That is for you to decide.

    SWIM now has a form of panic/​anxiety dis­order. This was dir­ectly tied to the con­sump­tion of the com­mer­cial products Spike99 Ultra mixed with Mojo (plant mater­ial coated with syn­thetic can­nabin­oids). Before this SWIM never had any prob­lems like these and was com­pletely normal and func­tioned daily without issue.

    Anyways, the symp­toms SWIM has exper­i­enced off and on for the past 2 months have included. Extreme anxiety, dizzi­ness, dif­fi­culties in visual focus­ing, chest tight­ness, strong aware­ness of heart beating, diarrhea, a worry of losing control and going insane, mild insom­nia, on rare occa­sions shaking/​tremors. These are all symp­toms of panic dis­order.

    SWIM loves to read posts from people that think these symp­toms are made up. SWIM can only say, wait until it happens to you or someone you know. Feel­ings and emo­tions then change quickly. SWIM says it is not some­thing you ever want to exper­i­ence and he wishes it on no one.

    SWIM’s research has uncovered many online post­ings from many various web­sites with similar stories from both syn­thetic can­nabin­oids and from marijuana. Reports from people range from new smokers to daily smokers that just got hit with a panic attack after smoking problem free for 10 years. Most of the symp­toms are the same and all point to panic/​anxiety dis­order.

    SWIM wants to post some links in order to help others and asks the mod­er­ator to please allow them as there is no com­mer­cial interest. The only interest is in helping others that may stumble onto this inform­a­tion.

    One of the sites with the most post­ings can be found here:
    http://​www​.steady​health​.com/​C​a​n​n​a​b​i​s​_​A​d​d​i​c​t​i​o​n​-​f​1​1​5​.​h​tml

    Search­ing those post­ings with topics such as “Para­noia” and “Panic Attacks” usually have the most related inform­a­tion.

    The most helpful inform­a­tion SWIM has found through all his research is that you are not going crazy and under­stand­ing that no matter what you do during a panic attack, at some point it WILL end. Writing down what you are feeling during a panic attack and then writing down why these feel­ings and ideas are unreal­istic helps deal with panic when it is at its worst. Breath­ing exer­cises are also very helpful. Hyper­vent­il­at­ing is common while having a panic attack. Breath­ing with your stomach moving is key. SWIM ori­gin­ally thought this was crazy and then found out it helped dra­mat­ic­ally. This means when you inhale make sure your stomach moves out, when you exhale make sure your stomach moves in. Some things to try during a panic attack are to take a deep breath in through your nose, then hold your breath for 5 – 7 seconds and exhale slowly through your mouth. Repeat this 5 – 10 times, often closing your eyes and envi­sion­ing a calm scen­ario helps with this. Another breath­ing tech­nique to use in con­junc­tion is to close your eyes and take 8 – 10 small breaths in rapid suc­ces­sion through your nose, hold for 1 second, then exhale slowly through your mouth. Do this at least 5 times, on the 6th time open your eyes and con­tinue the breath­ing. After a few minutes of this SWIM says you really should notice your­self feeling better. If not keep trying. It sounds ridicu­lous but it works and these or similar methods are recom­men­ded by treat­ment centers for panic attacks all over the world.

    Treat­ment may work for you. Try and find out if there are places that offer CBT (Cog­nit­ive Beha­vi­oral Therapy) treat­ment for panic dis­orders.

    If there aren’t treat­ment centers near you there are web resources and books. A good free website that asks for NO inform­a­tion from you and con­tains NO advert­ise­ments is:
    http://​www​.pan​ic​cure​.com/

    Some excel­lent books SWIM recom­mends are:
    Mastery of Your Anxiety and Panic (4th Edition) Work­book by David H. Barlow and Michelle G. Craske
    Panic Free by Lynne Freeman
    Panic Attacks Work­book by David Car­bon­ell

    If you find the books in the library or pur­chase them some­where make sure you get the Work­book edi­tions and not the edi­tions that would be for a Ther­ap­ist.

    Good luck to every­one and anyone going through this. SWIM will keep updat­ing from time to time. Hope­fully one update will be when SWIM no longer has these prob­lems or at least can control them better.

  22. OPENMIND says:

    The symp­toms some of you are relent­lessly and con­tinu­ally com­plain­ing about are also known as chronic crybaby pussy­itis by most men.

  23. knowlegable says:

    My friend and i have made our own jwh mixes and it turned out great just do ur research and be smart about it. There are alot of horror stories out there about this sub­stance and I would like to put my per­sonal exper­i­ence out there.
    I bought some spice and decided to get alittle stoned be4 i went to bed. I have acid once and used to smoke alot of pot so i am used to altered states of con­scious­ness. Ay ways I loaded a small bowl and took three hits of the spice. Within about 15 minutes i was trip­ping so hard i didnt have the mental capa­city to remind myself that i was trip­ping. I wanted to fall asleep but had lots of anxiety and thought that a demon was trying to attack me from the corner of my room. Even tho i was cozy in my bed I could hear the wind and dogs barking and just general out side noise and move­ment behind me were there was only a wall. I thought people were climb­ing under my blankets and actu­ally audible screamed from the horror of it. I got so uncom­fort­able that i began to throw up. I even­tu­ally fell asleep and the whole ordeal ended. I still use this stuff and smoke my own blend. From what ive gathered from all these exper­i­ences is that people only have bad exper­i­ences when they are alone or the only person at that level. This stuff is to be respec­ted just like any other hal­lu­cena­genic. Bottom line is dont be an idiot with it, if you think u are strong enough men­tally to deal with a bad trip, not a bad high a bad trip, than u have nothing to worry about. I feel that i am stronger as a person because of my bad exper­i­ences with this drug but thats just my pref­er­ence. I still use and rather frivlously i might add but i always know wat i am getting into. At the temple of the oracle of delphi at the entrance was inscribed “know thyself” and that is my advice for anyone who uses this drug know thyself because if u dont this drug will thrust that know­ledge upon u in waves that if u are not strong may over come u. All in all if ur scared start out slow and ull have a great time.

  24. dave says:

    Hi Garret

    That HPPD is inter­est­ing ‚never heard of it . But yes along with noti­cing the “float­ers” my vision was like being slightly stoned . At the start it was more than that , faces some­times became dis­tor­ted and scary, basic­ally trip­ping i spose , that lasted a week at most . Then bright colours and slight dis­tor­tions , this lasted for a month or so I seem to remem­ber.
    Seems strange think­ing back to that state of mind now . Been enjoy­ing getting drunk (couldn’t touch alcohol for 6 months !), chilling having a laugh again , all the things i thought would never be the same again .
    Still not dared weed again though, that was a warning that this ol space cadet ain’t ignor­ing !
    One day had some good advice and links , look at getting better not at the things that u “think” are wrong with you , its GAD and you’ll get better , trust me .
    Dave

  25. Justin says:

    Hey Dave,
    Just won­der­ing, what were your reasons for not touch­ing alcohol during your recov­ery? I am not fully better, im going on 5 months now, but have just recently started drink­ing again about a month ago. The alcohol doesnt seem to affect my body in a neg­at­ive way, but i was just won­der­ing because maybe the drink­ing is slowing down the recov­ery process. I even smoked weed again four or five times in the last couple weeks. It was very sooth­ing and i did not have any ‘flash­backs’ or any para­noia. Just won­der­ing if you think touch­ing sub­stances before fully recov­er­ing would in anyway prevent a full recovery/​slow down the recov­ery? Or is it all just mental and touch­ing sub­stances would have nothing to do with a recov­ery? The only symp­toms that still remain for me is the deper­son­al­iz­a­tion feel­ings (not getting any better, its been the same for about a month and a half months). Other than that a bit of slight anxiety now and again but nothing that bad at all. Let me know what you think.
    -Justin

  26. averageguy says:

    My story on spice, i did it like 6 months smoked everything was fine, then stopped smoking for 6 months decided to try it again and packed a bowl of Berry Blend spice smoked it for 2 days or so and nothing major, the third day packed a bowl and took a gas mask hit. Everything was fine until 5 – 6 mins later my ears felt like there going numb and everything went zoned out and i had a panic attack heart was beating crazy i thought i was going to die!!!!! Relaxed and went home slept and thought ill be fine, next morning still felt like my head was in a dream state or so like i would stare and some­thing for a long amount of time and i couldn’t control it my eyes won’t adjust to the dark like my eyes dilate but i just see float­ers, still felt dizzi­ness, was like this every day till about 4 day around night time, took some ben­ad­ril and i started to feel b etter , day 5 right now i still feel somewat out of it but the dizzi­ness went away , now it feels like im light headed i think its just all in my head really i just had a panic attack and everything seems normal phys­ic­ally just not n my head , but as dave said your brain takes time to heal , so i am not worried about this , i’ve noticed if i stop looking up storys about this shit and go hang out with friends life isn’t that bad, I haven’t touched this shit since that day been exer­cising and taking vit­am­ins , So well see what happens n a couple of weeks or so , i was won­der­ing dave if u had this same symp­toms or close to em?

  27. OPENMIND says:

    I am bettting you guys doing all the whining also have similar prob­lems with women and or for that matter any­thing else involving manhood.…..What a bunch of straight up PUSSIES! Please go hold hands in private or tell your psychiatrist/​therapist about your emo­tional weak­nesses …the rest of us are not inter­ested.

  28. dave says:

    Hi Justine , dunno what to say bro , alcohol just didn’t go down well , didn’t really affect me . Seems theres plenty of people of who’ve smoked weed all there lifes ‚who sud­denly flip out with a panic attack out the blue( i’ve indulged for 25years) . i still miss it , but i reached a point that night that i never want to return to . shit loads on having panic attacks on the net ‚weed related and not, if you have one it gives u an under­ly­ing fear of having another , thats all it is , easy to say i know . i’ve boxed most of my life , so i just per­son­i­fied it as a fighter and each time i felt it rising i just said to it “bring it on!” best way to deal with it.
    open­mind , i’m glad i make u think u have a big nob.where would u be without people like us ?

  29. OPENMIND says:

    Alot better off is where I would be …As would the rest of the world because if not for those such as you Can­nabis would cur­rently be legal instead of illegal as it is now com­pletely due to weak hearted idiots emu­lat­ing blatent false­hoods and fear as you con­tinue to try and do. For example The above state­ments you just made regard­ing weed as you call it claim­ing people “sud­denly flip out with panic attacks out of the blue” after years of use or whatever is com­pletely false and the most idiotic thing I have ever read. There are mil­lions and mil­lions who can and have been helped through the use of can­nabis as a medi­cine both phys­ic­ally as well as psy­cho­lo­gic­ally just as the inven­tion research and use of syn­thetic can­nabin­oids such as jwh-018 can. But people like you have pussy panic attacks and post it on the inter­net to try & create hys­teria. So lets just ban them all to protect people like you with emo­tional inad­equa­cies. As the old saying goes.. “SOUNDS LIKEPER­SONAL PROBLEM TO ME” A problem I might add that has abso­lutely nothing to do with either can­nabis or any can­nabin­oid syn­thetic or oth­er­wise. So I say go post your prob­lems (or per­ceived prob­lems) else­where because your prob­lems obvi­ously (except to the extremely ignor­ant) have nothing to do with any­thing people are trying to dis­cusss here. p.s. There is more than “Shit loads” hard factual medical clin­ical as well as casual research on the net and else­where that coun­ters any and all claims you have made regard­ing both sub­stances.

  30. Garret says:

    Hi
    Thanks for the advice. It’s just that the cob-web type float­ers are very prom­in­ent and it worries me. Never had a spec in my vision before bad exper­i­ence. It’s been almost 6 months and they are still the same. How long did it take for the float­ers to dis­sip­ate. I really don’t have much anxiety now after almost 6 months. I think I am only getting anxious because of the prom­in­ent float­ers. It’s dif­fi­cult to think clearly with them some­times and i am afraid I will fuck up job’s and study.

  31. OPENMIND says:

    GOOD LORD!!! These pussy worms are relent­less arent they? WTF???? I guess we should just ban every herb/​ sub­stance other than tobacco, alcohol and deadly pre­scrip­tion drugs. I just looked at the DEA web­sight where I read this on the jwh-018 drugs of concern page.…( “Inform­a­tion on user pop­u­la­tion in the U.S. is very limited, and includes inform­a­tion from drug user inter­net forums. JWH-018 abuse is not mon­itored by any national drug abuse surveys.” ) Sooo what this is actu­ally saying is that gov­ern­ment agen­cies and legis­lat­ors in the U.S.A. base their decisions to ban sub­stances on inter­net forums. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!! Four U.S. states have already banned jwh-018 and two more states will be added to that on july 1st 2010 , seven more states cur­rently have pending or pro­posed legis­la­tion to ban it soon. All based on inform­a­tion obtained through inter­net forums? I think it’s about time U.S. cit­izens start banning politi­cians and hypo­crit­ical gov­ern­ment agen­cies. I also noticed that kava was on the list of chem­ic­als of concern??? Really? kava???? lmfao …Folks we need to start aggress­ively stand­ing up to these worms and stop pass­ively stand­ing by while they ban our rights to live.

  32. dave says:

    Life would be boring without drugs for sure . But if your trying to tell me there aren’t risks involved , you need to open your mind bro ! Alcohol can give you liver damage, smoking can cause lung cancer etc etc . Its all about informed choices. I’m inform­ing and people can make there choices . I’ve taken all sorts of drugs for years , always asked and made an “informed” choice before i’ve taken them ‚I think and this opinion has backing on this forum, that some of these “legal ” highs have vastly varying doses , I for one know i was hit by a massive dose which fucked my head right up . I’d also say some of the forms of skunk on the market now are getting almost to strong, but at least u know your getting and the batch is more con­stant.
    Weeds been around thou­sands of years and this shit ain’t !
    I dearly hope u spin out on it one day my friend and have my words spin­ning around in that tiny skull of yours 😉

  33. Garret says:

    Hi dave
    I agree com­pletely with the remarks above. This guy is on the wrong road. I am still trying to find a peron who has the same problem as me. When you say you had eye float­ers after the crap exper­i­ence, were they prom­in­ent and new to you, or were they just more heightened. You see you have to under­stand that my vision was perfect until the crap exper­i­ence and these prom­in­ent eye float­ers are depress­ing me and I am finding it hard to get through each day. I fear that I will never be normal again. The fol­low­ing ques­tion is very import­ant to me: How long did the eye floaters(if prom­in­ent and never noticed before, or just more heightened) I have been reading on the inter­net about people with major eye float­ers due to smoking legal highs(synthetic can­nabin­oids). I have not heard much stories about people recov­er­ing from the same problem I have. I have a feeling I have a mild dose of HPPD. Or maybe the depres­sion and anxiety is making me see them. I can also see the blood cells or very mild sta­ictic when I look to the sky. My vision does not fell the same exclud­ing my eye floater problem. I wish you would explain a bit more in detail about you recov­ery regard­ing the vision prob­lems and espe­cially about the eye float­ers. I hope you can under­stand why I am freaked out! Every­where I look I can see these cob-webs and black dots swinging around my psyche(vision). It’s the summer and by God!, I see them all over the place. My opti­cian told me these are normal, I am certain I don’t have retanel tear. It’s just the door is open to them, so to speak and it’s like as if I am looking trough the jell in my eyes, with cob-webs and black dots in my vision. I ahve a feeling you did not get this as bad as me. How much of the stuff did you smoke leading to the bad trip. I am seeing a coun­selor at the moment and my doctor wants me to take Lexapro. I don’t to take these drugs. I would love to beleive all this due to anxiety, but as you can see above I can not seem to nail it down to one thing. It would be great to hear from an expert or someone who know what exactly I am talking about. I feel I have ruined my life dispite the fact taht good people are tell me that I will get better and better. Sounds a lot like depres­sion to me as well. Thanks once again. Don’t forget about how long before you noticed them dis­sip­ate and felt like you had back your normal quality of vision.

  34. OPENMIND says:

    I still say You are a pussies! Blah, Blah, Blah, Boo, hoo, hoo! Typical politico worms doped to the nines on pre­scrip­tion meds sys­tem­at­ic­ally going from one forum to the next whining and crying trying to drum up typical “the sky is falling” “reefer madness” “WMD” hys­teria. Relent­lessly blaming an acces­ible legal sub­stance that has been proven non toxic and non lethal. Yet it is per­fectly okay in their eyes for them and the rest of society (even little chil­dren) to be given massive amounts of pre­scrip­tion pills that have been proven without doubt to cause death and severe health prob­lems, addic­tion, psy­chosis, suicide, and on and on. I say these prob­lems they speak of (If they actu­ally ever even existed..perceived or oth­er­wise) are a direct result of ingest­ing pre­scrip­tion drugs not jwh or “incense”. Of course none of these doctors we are sup­posed to trust with our lives will ever tell you the meds they pre­scribed you have fucked you for life because it might result in a lawsuit for them. I have always been one to read between the lines and what I am reading on these some of these posts is this.…Government pricks posing on these forums spread­ing hys­ter­ical false­hood to gain momentum in order to ban these herbs/​ sub­stances because any legal sub­stance such as these can­nabin­oids or any other pleaseur­able, bene­fi­cial, easily obtain­able legal plant/​substance poses a threat to the estab­lish­ment they so zeal­ously seek to protect so as to insure they can con­tinue to control and profit from the suf­fer­ing of others.. In my pre­vi­ous post I made a point as to the ridicu­lous sources that these gov­ern­ment dick­heads claim to use as evid­ence a sub­stance or herb is harmful. I said abso­lutely nothing at all about Dave or Garret or Justin. Yet Dave seems to think my post was dir­ec­ted towards him and his crybaby butt buddies???? Why is that?? I ask you why? I rest my case folks! TIME FOR US ALL TO STAND UP TO THEM!

  35. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    It’s impot­ant to answer the above ques­tions from me in order to clear up my problem. I also want to stop posting here so I can move forward with more faith/​confidence and give your poor desent soul a break.
    Thanks.
    Garret
    When I said you were on the wrong road Open­mind, I just meant that one is off in looking for a natural high than a high from a chem­ical. I think this way is more real and groun­ded in the laws of the uni­verse. Just take care, and bye!

  36. dave says:

    Hi Garret
    If i want to see them they’re there . Sounds like your trying to notice them bro , just get on with your life . I must have noticed them being there all the time for a few months . Then as i chilled they went .
    What i would say , sadly the demen­ted moron above is right on this , that maybe this isn’t the forum for you. There’s plenty of anxiety forums out there be worth posting on them , that dis­order you men­tioned was inter­est­ing and I cer­tainly had a touch of it , so there most be others that can assure you better than me .
    I avoid any type of med­ic­a­tion if i can as i detest drug com­pan­ies , use coun­cil­ing and your own mind and you’ll be fine bro .
    Open­mind , what part of u is open minded when you only believe what u want to ? Cheers Dave
    Dave

  37. OPENMIND says:

    If I only beleived what I wanted then I would beleive our gov­ern­ment rep­res­ent­at­ives actu­ally honored and respec­ted the will of the people and that ignor­ant people do not own com­puters, however I do not beleive that. I instead beleive the truth, which is that those people are only in office to line their own pockets and will stoop to whatever it takes and use whatever ridicu­lous means to accom­plish that. If you make certain sug­ges­tions to some people they will beleive it as truth whether it is real truth or not. Dave, I would like to comment con­cern­ing your pre­vi­ous claims above where you say that you were merely posting your sup­posed bad exper­i­ences in order to help people make more “informed” choices and decisions about jwh. However in your last post you actu­ally admit­ted that these prob­lems were actu­ally ima­gin­ary. and that jwh DID NOT actu­ally cause you any eye prob­lems ect. ect. Garrets phys­i­cians have con­firmed the same to him. So how is it that you think you are helping people make informed decisions based on mis­in­form­a­tion? I am willing to bet the farm that neither of you fella’s per­ceived any such prob­lems prior to reading some inter­net forum that sug­ges­ted the sub­stance might do so. Unless of course you were the one who started all the hys­teria. Even phys­i­cians tell these people “Hey look dude there is nothing wrong with you !” But they instead choose to beleive some­thing they read on the inter­net. But hey, thanks Dave for inform­ing thou­sands of people that can­nabin­oid “research” chem­ic­als and can­nabis (which both have the poten­tial to help and cure mil­lions with cancer, alzheimers, hiv, mus­co­skeletal prob­lems, stress, depres­sion, post trau­matic dis­orders… I could go on for days here) will cause you to have phys­ical and mental prob­lems when in fact they will not. Why dont you post your Email address so that research­ers who are cur­rently able to use these syn­thetic can­nabin­oids to find cures for cancer (because they cant use actual can­nabis due to it being illegal thanks to nothing more than “reefer madness”) can thank you when these can­nabin­oids are banned in their state causing that research to come to a screech­ing halt. So I am a “demen­ted moron” ?? Look dude.. I am not the one who thinks he is seeing things that are in fact not even there.

  38. Justindian says:

    HAHAHA holy shit!! I prob­ably just sat here for the last two hours reading EVERY SINGLE ONE of these posts!! You guys are fucking hil­ari­ous!!
    THE STRAIGHT DOPE:
    1.JWH-018 causes long-term affects for LONG TERM USERS
    2.Using too much JWH-018 (over 5mg) is DAN­GER­OUS
    3.Smoking spice one time will NOT make you insane
    4.GARRETT IS SLOWLY MAKING HIMSELF INSANE
    5.I have HPPD and if you chill the fuck out, it GOES AWAY
    6.FLOATERS NEVER DIS­SIP­ATE
    7.DON’T PAY ATTEN­TION TO FLOAT­ERS, THEYRE NATURAL
    8.FLOATERS ARE CLUMPS IN THE EYE’S VIT­REOUS FLUIDS
    9.SPICE DOES NOT CAUSE FLOAT­ERS
    10.FLOATERSFLOATERSFLOATERSFLOATERS
    11.Ben and Maui Green Dragon ser­i­ously know what they are talking about and without you guys I would have stopped reading this entire post. I have never had a problem with spice. SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPS.

  39. Garret says:

    Hi Dave
    I know what you mean, I will no longer post my problem here.
    Anyway, because I did not meet anybody with same problem, I used this site to se if I could relate to anybody. Every­one falls and needs help in life in some time or other. The guy above will fall some day. Then he might have com­pa­sion for others.

  40. dave says:

    So if you’ve read my pre­vi­ous posts you’ll see that i , like others, believe there could be uneven dosing going on and to be careful , seems to be the general con­sensus by lots of others to . But you my friend blabber on about gov­ern­ment con­spir­acy the­or­ies and that I have been harping on about the “phys­ical” dangers of these products . You need to read all my posts my friend “open your mind” and you’ll see that i’ve clearly said there were no phys­ical prob­lems other than the panic attack it caused , which I can assure u is one of the most “phys­ical” exper­i­ences of my life (mind over body granted).
    If you don’t think that uneven dosing causing panic attacks ‚with long lasting mental prob­lems in some people is worth men­tion­ing so others can make informed choices , your a sad self centered indi­vidual . Its not all about “u” having fun .

  41. OPENMIND says:

    Did you read my posts???? A con­spir­acy theory is a con­spir­acy theory. You can throw your con­spir­acy the­or­ies around and its okay IE claim­ing that these sub­stances causes phys­ical and mental prob­lems when in fact it has been proven that they do not. ONLY IMA­GIN­ARY “reefer madness” as you have repeatedly admit­ted your­self. Yet you con­tin­ally tout the ima­gin­ary as reality as I have noted time and again. A true “Phys­ical” malody is not an ima­gin­ary one and vice versa. Genuine phys­ical malod­ies are fellow sol­diers return­ing from Iraq and Afganistan missing limbs for instance. Some of my buddies deal with some real mental issues however those issues were brought on by actual phys­ical life chan­ging events…Yes watch­ing your buddies die in the sand of some foreign shit hole tends to have some mental effect on you but most are strong enough to deal with it rel­at­ively well on their own and can­nabis or herbal smokes tend to help releive the stress tre­mend­ously. No my friend it is not all about me at all! far far from it! As all of my posts have clearly pointed out. All of my posts are just the oppos­ite in fact, attempt­ing to stand up for mil­lions who benefit tre­mend­ously from these sub­stances in the face of a few douchebags such as your­self who com­plain and thus cam­paign to have them banned because you ima­gined some­thing in your mind that was brought on after you read some bull­shit on an inter­net forum. The gov­ern­ment has already banned jwh in the mil­it­ary & several states based on such pussy boy stu­pid­ity with zero true evid­ence it is harmful in any way. Is that a con­spir­acy theory ?? or cold hard fact?

  42. dave says:

    So your problem is I’m sharing a neg­at­ive exper­i­ence instead of a pos­it­ive one ? Maybe we should have a sensor­ship filter in place on these forums ?

  43. OPENMIND says:

    My problem is you are sharing false­hood based on heresay & feeble ima­gin­a­tions instead of phys­ical evid­ence based on actual facts.

  44. dave says:

    Thats what u think because u refuse to acknow­ledge anyones opinion but your own .

  45. OPENMIND says:

    My opinion is based on fact and nothing less..Your opinion is based on ima­gin­ary fantasy and nothing more.

  46. Shaggy says:

    Hey all,
    I have noticed that there are a growing number of people on this thread that are report­ing neg­at­ive effects and go into great detail about it. Whether or not they are entirely true reports or not I can’t say but I am intrigued none the less. It seems that the basis behind most of them are plaus­ible but what I am hes­it­ant to believe is the lasting effects people are claim­ing. I will use Garret as an example. I remem­ber reading this thread months ago in January when you first started posting and yet you are still here. The advice I gave back then and what others are still giving to you, you seem to ignore. You are turning your exper­i­ence with Spice into an obses­sion which in turn it leading you further and further down a road of hypo­chon­dria. You ser­i­ously need to fucking forget about it and move on with your life. Only two things could happen if you do:

    1- Your life goes back to the way it used to be
    2- You still have slight visions prob­lems and YOU DEAL WITH IT like every­one else in the world who has issues

    With that said, here is my own story. When I was put on pro­ba­tion, I tried to get away with smoking the real shit but I got caught and almost faced some serious con­sequences. I’ll admit that I am an addict (not to weed, just to any­thing really) so it is hard for me to go more than a month or so without at least having a beer. Real­iz­ing that if I had another dirty UA I would be put away, I did a bunch of research and decided to try Spice. At first I only used an eighth or two a month when I could afford it. Just recently though I decided to make my own batch. For around $50 I was able to make two and a half ounces using one gram of jwh-018. The potency was enough to make one bowl get you good and lit. It took me around a month to go through it all, and for the most part I was smoking every evening after work. Here are the effects that I noticed during this period:

    Occa­sion­ally I would notice my heart rate increase as if I had taken a line of coke. Usually this would happen at the begin­ning of a session and subside within a half an hour or so. Some­times I could also tell that text would be harder to read and that things looked slightly dif­fer­ent (its hard to explain but almost similar to a mild acid high). The whole time during the month I defi­antly noticed a stronger para­noia that regular weed and would find myself at times seeing things in the corner of my eye (similar to coming down from a bender on speed but not as intense). The para­noia was kinda com­bined with an obsess­ive tend­ency. Again it’s hard to describe but an illus­tra­tion of it would be con­stantly trying to deal with acne to the point where they became sores. I knew I should have just left it alone and it would have healed but at the same time it was hard to resist the urge to keep doing it. Also at the end of the month I could feel that I was more on edge and felt more uneasy than normal.

    It has been just over two weeks since I last had some and I can safely say I don’t feel any para­noia, no vision prob­lems, no obsess­ive ten­an­cies or any­thing else really. For those who still do have such problem or at least claim to have them, my bet is that you are either lying or that you had got your­self so worked up or freaked out when you did try it that you now firmly believe it is a lasting effect that you have. I can’t say for certain because I am not a doctor nor a psy­chi­at­rist but that is my hunch.

    Also, during the month I was using, I had one occa­sion where I smoked a bit too much and knew I had mildly OD’ed. I have OD’ed on other drugs in the past so I knew that this was the case. My heart was racing, the para­noia was intense and I could have easily lost it. But like what others on this thread are saying as well, I took some deep breaths, laid down on the couch and threw in a movie to take my mind off the noids. It took an hour or so of making a con­scious effort to not freak out before I was able to begin relax­ing enough to fall asleep. The next day I felt fine and went to work. If that had been one of my first times using any drug or was unac­cus­tomed to “the fear,” I could easily see myself com­pletely losing it and having to be taken to the hos­pital. For those who have used hal­lu­cino­gens before and enjoyed it, we know that the only way to have fun on them is to never succumb to “the fear” which jwh-018 seems to defi­antly have hiding in it’s closet.

    All in all I will most likely never use it again. I only have a few months left on pro­ba­tion and then I can go back to smoking the good natural herb. JWH just feels dirty and I guess you could say unhealthy espe­cially when used con­sist­ently over longer periods of time. If you are des­per­ate like I have been in the past I would say it is ok in small does, but it isn’t like weed where you can get really really baked. Once you are high, that is pretty much the ceiling and if you go past it you are likely to freak out.

    Justin­dian is almost spot on with what he said a few posts ago except that you could go nuts from smoking it just once if you allow your­self to. I have seen it with hal­lu­cino­gens in the past, if you don’t know what you are getting your­self into or are emo­tion­ally unstable / have other issues men­tally, then you prob­ably should stay clear of the drug. I have friends who still think they are dif­fer­ent after one use of a hal­lu­cino­gen when I have taken a large variety on mul­tiple occa­sions and feel just fine. The mind is a power­ful thing and if you believe some­thing strong enough, it will make it true… even to the point of death.

    Back to Garret again… every­one has eye float­ers, you might not have just noticed them in the past but you had them then as well. It is a natural occur­rence within the eye that is healthy. In some cases an abund­ance of them can indic­ate prob­lems, but if you are so worried about it go to an eye doctor and just have him examine you. Don’t tell him any of your thoughts about it, or that you used an RC, just let him do an exam­in­a­tion like any other and see what he says. I can almost guar­an­tee you that there is nothing wrong. And if you look at an earlier post you made in March you even said “my eyes are fine thanks” but from con­tinu­ing to read scare stories and such you went back to believe that there still was an issue. You really need to just let all this go and then you can con­tinue on with your life. You have spent six months so far obsess­ing over this and anyone can tell you that that isn’t healthy.

    And to OPEN­MIND, you almost sound like a vendor trying to keep this shit legal. Either that or you really just can’t com­pre­hend other exper­i­ences / pos­sib­il­it­ies other than your own. If you do research behind Spice and JWH instead of talking out your ass you will find art­icles not only abroad but in the States as well of people going to the hos­pital from using it. If you think inde­pend­ent news report­ers are apart of the con­spir­acy then you my friend are an idiot. Just because you and I haven’t had any serious prob­lems from it doesn’t mean that it isn’t pos­sible. This is a damn research chem­ical… do you even know what that mean? We don’t know the full gamut of side effects yet and to say that any­thing neg­at­ive is BS is com­plete fool­ish­ness. But I do agree that some people are blowing things way out of pro­por­tion.

    Well that’s my 2 cents, take it or leave it I don’t care.

  47. Concerned says:

    Has anyone suffered long term side effects? longer than a week?

  48. mojolover says:

    mojo diamond… unfor­tu­nately i’m subject to random UA’s so i quit everything. been smoking since i was 11, now 46, been drink­ing that long as well, totally quit that. after a year, i was def craving to smoke, so a friend referred me to local head­shop for serenity… they didn’t have it but did have mojo diamond!! THANK GOD!!! maybe 3 – 4 x’s a week, at the end of my night i will smoke a pinner and be HIGHHHH as a kite! i love it!! have no desire to hunt any­thing else, but, alas, it will be illegal here in fla by 71. i have no horror stories, no com­plaints, i will say that it does seem to knock me out, i do sleep harder and longer, and my ass does seem to drag a bit the next day, but looking back at my pot smoking years, my ass was lazy and drag­ging then too!! lmfao! now i just need to figure out how to keep getting this stuff, ($30=3g) after 7/1~~~

  49. OPENMIND says:

    No shaggy I am not a vendor trying to “keep this shit legal” so that I can sell it . I am just a rational think­ing human being who does not have his head up his ass. The research I have done is based on fact and nothing else. I have men­tioned this repeatedly until blue in the face. Have you read any tech­nical data from actual research done with this chem­ical? Or have you just read media reports from inde­pend­ent report­ers (LMFAO!!) whom I should prob­ably inform you are paid by news organ­iz­a­tions that lean polit­ic­ally either to the left or to the right (as anyone with a brain already knows) depend­ing upon which bil­lion­aires owns them. In other words they print only what they want to.usually leaning toward their own agenda. not the truth! Have you ever heard of a little thing called history? I guess not? If you had then you would know that just because some­thing shows up in the news media does not make it true fact. Ever hear of the “National Enquirer” or “reefer madness” ect. One of the main reasons can­nabis ever became illegal in the first place was due to a huge polit­ic­ally and fin­an­cially motiv­ated false media cam­paign claim­ing marijuana was deadly harmful and would cause people to lit­er­ally go insane if they smoked it. Along with a whole myriad of racial lies and myths sur­round­ing the ever so evil devil plant mauri­huana. BOO! lol. It is called the media and if you think everything in the media is reli­able fact then you are one of the blither­ing idiots who needs to pull his head from his ass. Not to mention the other true fact that any fool can write some bull­shit story and post it on the inter­net for the whole world to see. And another thing..In any of these so called reli­able media stories that you talk about where people are sup­posedly going to the hos­pital… has there been one single death repor­ted? How about any kind of doc­u­mented health prob­lems at all from any single one of these repor­ted hos­pital visits? Or are they all your basic just half assed hys­teria stories about nothing more than goofy people who just simply got too stoned for per­sonal comfort but of course were not actu­ally harmed phys­ic­ally in any way what­so­ever? Ever hear any news stories about kids going to the hos­pital from drink­ing too much beer?? Any doc­u­mented deaths from beer or whiskey over­dose or I should say pois­on­ing? How about stories of over­dose deaths from pre­scrip­tion drugs? You bet I know what a “research chem­ical” is.….….Do you??? One thing research chem­ic­als are used for is doing well um.. research. You know research is what inteli­gent people do to try and find cures for dis­eases and such. That is of course so long as the chem­ic­als they so vitally need to do so are legally avail­able so that they can have the oppor­tun­ity to do that vitally import­ant research before they are banned due to goofy people. These can­nabin­oids are abso­lutely amazing sub­stances which have the poten­tial to act as mira­cu­lous medi­cines and are far safer than 90% of the current FDA approved “CHEM­ICAL” medi­cines which can and have in fact killed people.…Millions of people. Yet are legal and avail­able today. Some even avail­able over the counter to minors no doubt.

  50. MIRACLE MEDICINE says:

    Just wanted to post my own per­sonal exper­i­ence with herbal incense. First off, I am a 43 year old male and not an illegal recre­ational drug user or a drinker. For the past couple of years I have exper­i­enced excru­ti­at­ing pain in my colon. I exhibit all the classic symp­toms of colon cancer. If you dont know what that feels like the only way I know to describe it is that it feels like I have swal­lowed a huge stone that is now lodged in my colon pre­vent­ing normal lower diges­tion and all that involves if you can get the picture. This con­di­tion is not only painful as hell but it sucks every ounce of energy from your body. healthy appet­ite and restful sleep is pretty much non exist­ent due to what I can only describe as mind blowing pain. I have a friend that works in con­struc­tion with what he refers to as a bunch of con­victs who told me about this herbal inscense that some of his workers were smoking as an altern­at­ive to marijuana so as to avoid drug testing. I had enter­tained the thought of trying marijuana to get releif from the pain I exper­i­ence however the illegal status and lack of avail­ab­il­ity had deterred me from doing so. The other day in the midst of hor­rible pain and about five days without any real rest or any­thing close to a decent meal. I stopped at a small store to pur­chase some over the counter acet­o­meta­ph­ine sleep aid and saw that they sold little 400mg packets of various herbal blends as the store clerk called them. For a split second I asso­ci­ated what my friend had said about herbal incense with my curi­os­ity to try marijuana as a pain releiver so without a second thought I told the clerk to “Give me a couple of those too” After some inquiry and a short dis­cus­sion with the clerk about how much and how to take it He threw in a little cigar­ette one hitter as he called it. Knowing from exper­i­ence how little ace­t­a­meta­ph­ine would help I opted instead to try the herbal incense as soon as pos­sible. I took one small light puff off of the small cigar­ette appar­atus and about all I can say at this point is it was indeed abso­lutely amazing! The first thing I noticed was almost imme­di­ate releif from the pound­ing and twitch­ing pain in my gut along with an extremely relax­ing feeling through­out my body and an easing of my very stressed out mind. For the first time in several days I had releif. Total releif! I pro­ceeded to take another small slow steady pull and after that was fin­ished admin­istered one last small dose. after about thirty minutes I real­ized I could now prob­ably take a pretty decent nap so I laid down on the couch. To my sur­prise I woke up about eight hours later feeling extremely well rested and very reju­vin­ated imme­di­ately real­iz­ing that for the first time in weeks I had gotten some actual sleep and real rest. The kicker was that I was also very hungry. Thats right, my appet­ite was back in full force. Since then I have been eating everything edible in sight without any prob­lems. I am now using it spar­ingly on a daily basis because quite frankly it takes very little to get the desired releif I need. I have been using during the day with no prob­lems or inter­fer­ence in normal daily activ­it­ies. The only thing I notice is the abscense of pain that before was pre­vent­ing me from being able to really func­tion at all. For me this stuff is awesome. I have not noticed exper­i­enced zero neg­at­ive aspects and hope to God it remains to be legal and easily access­ible.

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